Sudden rough running [resolved] - Page 7 - Miata Turbo Forum - Boost cars, acquire cats.

Welcome to Miataturbo.net   Members
 


Reply
 
 
 
LinkBack Thread Tools Search this Thread
Old 04-29-2009, 06:31 PM   #121
Elite Member
iTrader: (46)
 
Stein's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2007
Location: Nebraska
Posts: 4,812
Total Cats: 138
Default

OK, zipping worked. Don't get too wrapped up in my AFR tuning. I was changing a bunch of stuff lately and just finally stopped.
Attached Files
File Type: zip ECU.zip (279.1 KB, 77 views)
Stein is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 04-29-2009, 10:22 PM   #122
y8s
2 Props,3 Dildos,& 1 Cat
iTrader: (8)
 
y8s's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2005
Location: Fake Virginia
Posts: 19,038
Total Cats: 407
Default

ok i took a look at your map and then the internet at work died and then my backup vehicle dropped its exhaust on the freeway so it's been a while and I apologize.

I have a map with your cranking enrichments re-tuned based on scaling the pulsewidths down from my 550 hydra map. it is a little richer and more regressive as temp increases, but it looks pretty reasonable. I'll send it to you in a bit or post it here.

but first, i have to take a look at your tip in enrichments. dot dot dot.
y8s is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 04-29-2009, 10:25 PM   #123
Elite Member
Thread Starter
iTrader: (15)
 
Join Date: Dec 2007
Location: San Antonio, Texas
Posts: 4,889
Total Cats: 28
Default

Post it please! I would like to see what you come up with since I need to work on the tip-in enrichments also.
ZX-Tex is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 04-30-2009, 12:31 AM   #124
y8s
2 Props,3 Dildos,& 1 Cat
iTrader: (8)
 
y8s's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2005
Location: Fake Virginia
Posts: 19,038
Total Cats: 407
Default

ok heres the map. I should point you to this thread where the adaptronic guy explains setting the throttle enrichments and how you shouldn't bother until your map is very well tuned. given the shape of Stein's fuel map, I'd say he's got some work to do!

OK so moving on.

I fixed up the cranking enrichment as I said. probably anyone can use the same basic percentage of change and just rescale by: cranking pulse = stein's pulse * (stein's injector size=600)/(your injector size).

I also found some suggested settings for a 1.6 miata (hey close enough) and used the guidelines from the adap forum to tweak your enrichments.

source: Throttle pump problem on 4AGE 20V

Quote:
-Firstly, we usually don't use the MAP-based transient enrichment settings (ie. leave them at zero).
-Typically, the TPS component varies alot between different cars, a suitable value could be as low as 20 or as high as the maximum. Try 50 to start with (this value gets multiplied by the rate-of-change of TPS).
-The duration tends to be in the range from 200 to 600 (the enrichment will ramp down to zero over this duration).
-The 'cutoff (%)' should usually be somewhere between 10 and 20 (this parameter specifies the %TPS above which there will be no transient throttle action by the ECU). The cutoff above the 'set async' button is for transient throttle enrichment, and the one below the 'set async' button is for the asynchronous accelerator pump. They are often set to the same value.
-The gain should be somewhere between 1 and 30, where higher values require faster throttle movement to achieve the full async squirt duration specified in the 'set asynch' table.
-Finally, for the values in the 'set asynch' table, the value at 0 RPM should be zero, and the remaining values should taper down from about 200 at 500RPM to 0 at about 8000RPM. Note that the values in that table are actually x10 (to improve accuracy), so a value of 200 = 20ms of fuel. The values I just suggested are strictly a guide, they may need to be played with a fair bit.

See how you go with that. The most important settings to play with in the transient throttle are the gain, the TPS component, and the 'set asynch' table.
so with that you can change the settings yourself to see if they work or not.

I'd make sure you can first trigger the asynchronous enrichment and also make sure the TPS component for the top setting is strong enough. I upped the duration to 500ms because of the approximate duration of your leanness after cracking the throttle.

the MAP
http://y8spec.com/adaptronic/maps/20...accel_crnk.ecu

John: I didn't change anything but the cranking and throttle enrichments so it's probably fine to drop in.
y8s is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 04-30-2009, 01:08 AM   #125
Elite Member
iTrader: (46)
 
Stein's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2007
Location: Nebraska
Posts: 4,812
Total Cats: 138
Default

Will do it tomorrow. I got the Magnaflow in. Sounds SWEET! I can't believe how quiet it is at idle. Plus, I don't sound like a ricer any more. Thanks, Matt for the map and the muffler suggestion.

BTW, big one fits NB's with no problem.
Stein is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 04-30-2009, 08:30 AM   #126
Junior Member
iTrader: (9)
 
Join Date: Jan 2007
Posts: 455
Total Cats: 3
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by y8s View Post
I'd make sure you can first trigger the asynchronous enrichment and also make sure the TPS component for the top setting is strong enough. I upped the duration to 500ms because of the approximate duration of your leanness after cracking the throttle.
Do the asynch values need to be scaled too if not using the 600 injectors? I'm still stock.

Thanks for the previous enrichment maps. After updating my files, the car has cold started (20c) first crank the past two mornings. Was previously taking 3 tries to fire up.
sv650_ck is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 04-30-2009, 09:34 AM   #127
Elite Member
iTrader: (9)
 
Join Date: Jun 2008
Location: Houston, TX
Posts: 1,583
Total Cats: 8
Default

Yea the values are in pulsewidth, so going to 600's you'd want to back off 58 percent.

I haven't heard anything more from Rob on the issue of the weird running problems. He is sitting down with the codesigner and trying to fix the situation. They just haven't come up with anything yet.

Oh yea, y8s is the man!
TravisR is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 04-30-2009, 04:12 PM   #128
y8s
2 Props,3 Dildos,& 1 Cat
iTrader: (8)
 
y8s's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2005
Location: Fake Virginia
Posts: 19,038
Total Cats: 407
Default

oh so the asynch should be lowered to 100 from 200 etc?

btw, if I'm the man, how come I can't get my car to start?
y8s is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 04-30-2009, 04:27 PM   #129
Elite Member
iTrader: (46)
 
Stein's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2007
Location: Nebraska
Posts: 4,812
Total Cats: 138
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by y8s View Post
oh so the asynch should be lowered to 100 from 200 etc?
Do I need to do this or is it right on my new y8s massaged ECU file?
Stein is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 04-30-2009, 04:52 PM   #130
Elite Member
iTrader: (9)
 
Join Date: Jun 2008
Location: Houston, TX
Posts: 1,583
Total Cats: 8
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by y8s View Post
oh so the asynch should be lowered to 100 from 200 etc?

btw, if I'm the man, how come I can't get my car to start?
I thought it was just idling a little rich. Having problems with the triggers or something?

Travis
TravisR is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 04-30-2009, 05:07 PM   #131
y8s
2 Props,3 Dildos,& 1 Cat
iTrader: (8)
 
y8s's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2005
Location: Fake Virginia
Posts: 19,038
Total Cats: 407
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Stein View Post
Do I need to do this or is it right on my new y8s massaged ECU file?
You have to update it. I wasn't thinking about the supersized injectors when I put the "stock car" values in. Just take all those cells and multiply by .58 and enter and round to the nearest whole number. ez.

Quote:
Originally Posted by TravisR View Post
I thought it was just idling a little rich. Having problems with the triggers or something?

Travis
PM me your phone number and we can discuss at length sigh!

It was idling (one day last week) rich which is ok. but basically my issue is that I can't tell what's wrong. if I crank it enough, I smell gas and periodically it'll pretend to turn over once on its own, but mostly it just cranks or struggles to crank. in the ECU data window, the two triggers flash or stay yellow which I think means "changed since last update" so that's good.

I only had it idling once and I'll be damned if I knew why. It hasn't run since early last week.
y8s is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 04-30-2009, 05:44 PM   #132
Elite Member
iTrader: (46)
 
Stein's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2007
Location: Nebraska
Posts: 4,812
Total Cats: 138
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by y8s View Post
You have to update it. I wasn't thinking about the supersized injectors when I put the "stock car" values in. Just take all those cells and multiply by .58 and enter and round to the nearest whole number. ez.
Just the asynch values or cranking fuel also?
Stein is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 04-30-2009, 06:46 PM   #133
y8s
2 Props,3 Dildos,& 1 Cat
iTrader: (8)
 
y8s's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2005
Location: Fake Virginia
Posts: 19,038
Total Cats: 407
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Stein View Post
Just the asynch values or cranking fuel also?
just asynch.
y8s is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 04-30-2009, 10:30 PM   #134
Elite Member
iTrader: (46)
 
Stein's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2007
Location: Nebraska
Posts: 4,812
Total Cats: 138
Default

Well, I can't do screen shots at home but it is no better. Loaded Matt's tweaked map after reducing the asynch by 58%. Logged a cold run and everything was pretty fine. Idle steady at 14.0 or so. Shut it down for five minutes, started it back up and idle was swinging between 600 and 1000 RPM and 14.8 and 17.9 AFR for several oscilations before dieing. On restart the same swings and about 7 oscilations it slowly converged on a steady idle of 14.7-14.8. Tip in cold and hot are still really bad, spiking to 17.9 whenever I touch the throttle.
Stein is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 04-30-2009, 10:40 PM   #135
y8s
2 Props,3 Dildos,& 1 Cat
iTrader: (8)
 
y8s's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2005
Location: Fake Virginia
Posts: 19,038
Total Cats: 407
Default

I need a giant gun-to-head smilie.

I had my spark signals reversed.

Amazing what cleaning up your map for someone else will reveal.

Still gotta clean up the harness and fix the grounds, but that's cake.
y8s is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 04-30-2009, 10:45 PM   #136
Elite Member
iTrader: (46)
 
Stein's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2007
Location: Nebraska
Posts: 4,812
Total Cats: 138
Default

Good to hear!

I just sent cold and hot start logs to your work email and Travis to see if you see anything funny.
Stein is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 05-01-2009, 01:57 AM   #137
Senior Member
iTrader: (3)
 
Join Date: Aug 2005
Location: Gig Harbor, WA
Posts: 504
Total Cats: 3
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by y8s View Post
I need a giant gun-to-head smilie.

I had my spark signals reversed.
I think thats what happens when you build your own harness. I did the same thing.
TurboRoach is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 05-01-2009, 11:27 AM   #138
y8s
2 Props,3 Dildos,& 1 Cat
iTrader: (8)
 
y8s's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2005
Location: Fake Virginia
Posts: 19,038
Total Cats: 407
Default

well the thing is, usually you put 1 and 4 on the first IGN circuit and 2 and 3 on the 2nd IGN circuit.

the adaptronic is set up so that it gets the "reset" pulse before cylinder 2 fires, so that's where it starts its firing order. hence IGN1 goes to 2+3 and is the first counted event.
y8s is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 05-01-2009, 11:37 AM   #139
Elite Member
Thread Starter
iTrader: (15)
 
Join Date: Dec 2007
Location: San Antonio, Texas
Posts: 4,889
Total Cats: 28
Default

Hey guys still here. Nothing to add. I have been sick the last couple of days and not driving the car. But it was still doing the same thing when I last drove it, even with the Optima. I drove it home in warmer temps and had very little or no problems. No rough running in highway cruising and a little stop-and-go traffic. I took the same route where I had problems before. However, when I got home, I left it idling in the driveway to see what would happen. After 2-3 minutes it started idling rough, then died.

One thing though, even if the problem is not tuning related, thanks to this thread the Adaptronic detailed tuning (corrections, etc) is improving rapidly as a result of you guys chasing it down
ZX-Tex is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 05-01-2009, 11:41 AM   #140
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Nov 2007
Location: somewhere in NoVA
Posts: 550
Total Cats: -1
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by ZX-Tex View Post
Hey guys still here. Nothing to add. I have been sick the last couple of days and not driving the car. But it is still doing the same thing, even with the Optima.

One thing though, even if the problem is not tuning related, thanks to this thread the Adaptronic detailed tuning (corrections, etc) is improving rapidly as a result of you guys chasing it down
Wow, sorry to hear that it was not a voltage issue! So are you going to swap your adaptronic with Travis for a new one?

Cheers,
Matt
Prospero is offline   Reply With Quote
 
 
Reply

Related Topics
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
Project Gemini - Turbo Civic on the Cheap Full_Tilt_Boogie Build Threads 58 12-13-2017 10:04 PM
Momo Supercup seat jpreston Miata parts for sale/trade 2 05-17-2016 01:51 AM
Changing from 460cc to flow force 610cc in diypnp 90 Turbo MEGAsquirt 19 10-19-2015 04:23 PM
Time to start learning and play with tuning The Gleas MEGAsquirt 3 10-01-2015 10:30 AM
Got bad Crank Angle Sensor and Random Misfire codes, but runs fine. Greasyman General Miata Chat 2 09-28-2015 11:44 AM


Thread Tools Search this Thread
Search this Thread:

Advanced Search

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are Off
Pingbacks are Off
Refbacks are Off



All times are GMT -4. The time now is 02:10 PM.