Sudden rough running [resolved]
Joined: Jun 2005
Posts: 19,338
Total Cats: 574
From: Fake Virginia
ok i took a look at your map and then the internet at work died and then my backup vehicle dropped its exhaust on the freeway so it's been a while and I apologize. 
I have a map with your cranking enrichments re-tuned based on scaling the pulsewidths down from my 550 hydra map. it is a little richer and more regressive as temp increases, but it looks pretty reasonable. I'll send it to you in a bit or post it here.
but first, i have to take a look at your tip in enrichments. dot dot dot.
I have a map with your cranking enrichments re-tuned based on scaling the pulsewidths down from my 550 hydra map. it is a little richer and more regressive as temp increases, but it looks pretty reasonable. I'll send it to you in a bit or post it here.
but first, i have to take a look at your tip in enrichments. dot dot dot.
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Joined: Jun 2005
Posts: 19,338
Total Cats: 574
From: Fake Virginia
ok heres the map. I should point you to this thread where the adaptronic guy explains setting the throttle enrichments and how you shouldn't bother until your map is very well tuned. given the shape of Stein's fuel map, I'd say he's got some work to do! 
OK so moving on.
I fixed up the cranking enrichment as I said. probably anyone can use the same basic percentage of change and just rescale by: cranking pulse = stein's pulse * (stein's injector size=600)/(your injector size).
I also found some suggested settings for a 1.6 miata (hey close enough) and used the guidelines from the adap forum to tweak your enrichments.
source: Throttle pump problem on 4AGE 20V
so with that you can change the settings yourself to see if they work or not.
I'd make sure you can first trigger the asynchronous enrichment and also make sure the TPS component for the top setting is strong enough. I upped the duration to 500ms because of the approximate duration of your leanness after cracking the throttle.
the MAP
http://y8spec.com/adaptronic/maps/20...accel_crnk.ecu
John: I didn't change anything but the cranking and throttle enrichments so it's probably fine to drop in.
OK so moving on.
I fixed up the cranking enrichment as I said. probably anyone can use the same basic percentage of change and just rescale by: cranking pulse = stein's pulse * (stein's injector size=600)/(your injector size).
I also found some suggested settings for a 1.6 miata (hey close enough) and used the guidelines from the adap forum to tweak your enrichments.
source: Throttle pump problem on 4AGE 20V
-Firstly, we usually don't use the MAP-based transient enrichment settings (ie. leave them at zero).
-Typically, the TPS component varies alot between different cars, a suitable value could be as low as 20 or as high as the maximum. Try 50 to start with (this value gets multiplied by the rate-of-change of TPS).
-The duration tends to be in the range from 200 to 600 (the enrichment will ramp down to zero over this duration).
-The 'cutoff (%)' should usually be somewhere between 10 and 20 (this parameter specifies the %TPS above which there will be no transient throttle action by the ECU). The cutoff above the 'set async' button is for transient throttle enrichment, and the one below the 'set async' button is for the asynchronous accelerator pump. They are often set to the same value.
-The gain should be somewhere between 1 and 30, where higher values require faster throttle movement to achieve the full async squirt duration specified in the 'set asynch' table.
-Finally, for the values in the 'set asynch' table, the value at 0 RPM should be zero, and the remaining values should taper down from about 200 at 500RPM to 0 at about 8000RPM. Note that the values in that table are actually x10 (to improve accuracy), so a value of 200 = 20ms of fuel. The values I just suggested are strictly a guide, they may need to be played with a fair bit.
See how you go with that. The most important settings to play with in the transient throttle are the gain, the TPS component, and the 'set asynch' table.
-Typically, the TPS component varies alot between different cars, a suitable value could be as low as 20 or as high as the maximum. Try 50 to start with (this value gets multiplied by the rate-of-change of TPS).
-The duration tends to be in the range from 200 to 600 (the enrichment will ramp down to zero over this duration).
-The 'cutoff (%)' should usually be somewhere between 10 and 20 (this parameter specifies the %TPS above which there will be no transient throttle action by the ECU). The cutoff above the 'set async' button is for transient throttle enrichment, and the one below the 'set async' button is for the asynchronous accelerator pump. They are often set to the same value.
-The gain should be somewhere between 1 and 30, where higher values require faster throttle movement to achieve the full async squirt duration specified in the 'set asynch' table.
-Finally, for the values in the 'set asynch' table, the value at 0 RPM should be zero, and the remaining values should taper down from about 200 at 500RPM to 0 at about 8000RPM. Note that the values in that table are actually x10 (to improve accuracy), so a value of 200 = 20ms of fuel. The values I just suggested are strictly a guide, they may need to be played with a fair bit.
See how you go with that. The most important settings to play with in the transient throttle are the gain, the TPS component, and the 'set asynch' table.
I'd make sure you can first trigger the asynchronous enrichment and also make sure the TPS component for the top setting is strong enough. I upped the duration to 500ms because of the approximate duration of your leanness after cracking the throttle.
the MAP
http://y8spec.com/adaptronic/maps/20...accel_crnk.ecu
John: I didn't change anything but the cranking and throttle enrichments so it's probably fine to drop in.
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Will do it tomorrow. I got the Magnaflow in. Sounds SWEET! I can't believe how quiet it is at idle. Plus, I don't sound like a ricer any more. Thanks, Matt for the map and the muffler suggestion.
BTW, big one fits NB's with no problem.
BTW, big one fits NB's with no problem.
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Thanks for the previous enrichment maps. After updating my files, the car has cold started (20c) first crank the past two mornings. Was previously taking 3 tries to fire up.
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Yea the values are in pulsewidth, so going to 600's you'd want to back off 58 percent.
I haven't heard anything more from Rob on the issue of the weird running problems. He is sitting down with the codesigner and trying to fix the situation. They just haven't come up with anything yet.
Oh yea, y8s is the man!
I haven't heard anything more from Rob on the issue of the weird running problems. He is sitting down with the codesigner and trying to fix the situation. They just haven't come up with anything yet.
Oh yea, y8s is the man!
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I thought it was just idling a little rich
. Having problems with the triggers or something?
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Joined: Jun 2005
Posts: 19,338
Total Cats: 574
From: Fake Virginia
You have to update it. I wasn't thinking about the supersized injectors when I put the "stock car" values in. Just take all those cells and multiply by .58 and enter and round to the nearest whole number. ez.
PM me your phone number and we can discuss at length sigh!
It was idling (one day last week) rich which is ok. but basically my issue is that I can't tell what's wrong. if I crank it enough, I smell gas and periodically it'll pretend to turn over once on its own, but mostly it just cranks or struggles to crank. in the ECU data window, the two triggers flash or stay yellow which I think means "changed since last update" so that's good.
I only had it idling once and I'll be damned if I knew why. It hasn't run since early last week.
It was idling (one day last week) rich which is ok. but basically my issue is that I can't tell what's wrong. if I crank it enough, I smell gas and periodically it'll pretend to turn over once on its own, but mostly it just cranks or struggles to crank. in the ECU data window, the two triggers flash or stay yellow which I think means "changed since last update" so that's good.
I only had it idling once and I'll be damned if I knew why. It hasn't run since early last week.
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Well, I can't do screen shots at home but it is no better. Loaded Matt's tweaked map after reducing the asynch by 58%. Logged a cold run and everything was pretty fine. Idle steady at 14.0 or so. Shut it down for five minutes, started it back up and idle was swinging between 600 and 1000 RPM and 14.8 and 17.9 AFR for several oscilations before dieing. On restart the same swings and about 7 oscilations it slowly converged on a steady idle of 14.7-14.8. Tip in cold and hot are still really bad, spiking to 17.9 whenever I touch the throttle.
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Joined: Jun 2005
Posts: 19,338
Total Cats: 574
From: Fake Virginia
I need a giant gun-to-head smilie.
I had my spark signals reversed.
Amazing what cleaning up your map for someone else will reveal.
Still gotta clean up the harness and fix the grounds, but that's cake.
I had my spark signals reversed.
Amazing what cleaning up your map for someone else will reveal.
Still gotta clean up the harness and fix the grounds, but that's cake.
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Joined: Jun 2005
Posts: 19,338
Total Cats: 574
From: Fake Virginia
well the thing is, usually you put 1 and 4 on the first IGN circuit and 2 and 3 on the 2nd IGN circuit.
the adaptronic is set up so that it gets the "reset" pulse before cylinder 2 fires, so that's where it starts its firing order. hence IGN1 goes to 2+3 and is the first counted event.
the adaptronic is set up so that it gets the "reset" pulse before cylinder 2 fires, so that's where it starts its firing order. hence IGN1 goes to 2+3 and is the first counted event.
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Thread Starter
Elite Member
iTrader: (15)
Joined: Dec 2007
Posts: 4,847
Total Cats: 27
From: San Antonio, Texas
Hey guys still here. Nothing to add. I have been sick the last couple of days and not driving the car. But it was still doing the same thing when I last drove it, even with the Optima. I drove it home in warmer temps and had very little or no problems. No rough running in highway cruising and a little stop-and-go traffic. I took the same route where I had problems before. However, when I got home, I left it idling in the driveway to see what would happen. After 2-3 minutes it started idling rough, then died.
One thing though, even if the problem is not tuning related, thanks to this thread the Adaptronic detailed tuning (corrections, etc) is improving rapidly as a result of you guys chasing it down
One thing though, even if the problem is not tuning related, thanks to this thread the Adaptronic detailed tuning (corrections, etc) is improving rapidly as a result of you guys chasing it down
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Senior Member
Joined: Nov 2007
Posts: 533
Total Cats: -1
From: somewhere in NoVA
Hey guys still here. Nothing to add. I have been sick the last couple of days and not driving the car. But it is still doing the same thing, even with the Optima.
One thing though, even if the problem is not tuning related, thanks to this thread the Adaptronic detailed tuning (corrections, etc) is improving rapidly as a result of you guys chasing it down
One thing though, even if the problem is not tuning related, thanks to this thread the Adaptronic detailed tuning (corrections, etc) is improving rapidly as a result of you guys chasing it down
Cheers,
Matt
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