Fun was had today.

are you doing pulls in 2nd gear on the dyno?

4th gear.

That might explain the difference.

In....what exactly. The unexpectedly high figures or the delay in power?

(Remember I'm knew to all this)

6 speed?

If so lower gear ratio so maybe less spool.

6 speed with 3.63 R&P

You weren't in the 1:1 gear, Ed was.

I'm fuzzy on how the final drive affects things on the dyno, but i do know that every time i've been on the dyno, the operator ignores the final drive and sticks it in the 1:1 gear.

AFAIK 1:1 gear means the input shaft is directly connected to the output shaft, therefore no losses from the countershaft.

Also from BBundy and others we know that 4th gear is one of if not the weakest in the 6 speed (or at least the most likely to break out on track).

Yeah, I wouldn't suggest a bunch of 4th gear 6-speed dyno pulls with a high powered car. But afaik, 5th would only make the graph look better.

that second pull in the video is 4th gear? gets to redline in like 3 seconds.

I could see it if the dyno wasn't loading up like... at all. But that pull is exactly why his graph looks the way it does.

Brain's talking about Jeff's video, not his dyno graph.

needs more drama!

Yep i know. Jeff made it sound like the "second pull," which was the 3 second wonder, is what generated his 20psi graph.

If that's the case, the graph doesn't surprise me in the slightest.

I'll go over the videos later, but I am 100% sure all pulls done on the graph were in 4th gear.

Maybe I just picked an AFR tuning clip and mistook it for the 4th gear pull in my tired state.
I can understand your confusion but I have no reason to lie as I have nothing to prove/nor care to prove beyond my own enjoyment driving the car. Anything I post in the thread is just my enthusiasm for having fun with this thing.

Edit: Dur I should have read ALL the responses. So the answer to my ninja-edited question is maybe.

Although would it make a difference that mine was 5th gear with 4.10 rear end and his was 4th gear but with 3.63 rear end?

^^ good point. There is about a 12mph difference at 6800rpm between 4th (3.6 gears) and 5th (4.1 gears) though. That IS something.

+1. I seriously doubt that dyno chart is accurate, because if it is, that's the worst performing EFR I've ever seen. There's no way dynoing in 4th vs 5th will fix it, either. I wish you were closer to a Dynojet or a Dynapack.

Hmmm I'm interested in what a different Dyno would report then. It certainly doesn't feel like it spools that late/delivers power that slowly.

What are the right questions to ask the tuner to find the answers we are obviously lacking?

Could my EBC to EWG routing have affected the spool?

If it was truly that slow on power you'd think I'd be able to feel it compared to my 2860rs turbo.

Can you datalog it on the street? Put it in 5th at 2000 RPM, stand on it, post the graph of the MAP & RPM.

--Ian

OK so I got a hold of kyle who tuned the car and asked him why, compared to other similar builds it showed such negative performance and apparently in order for the Dyno to display the results on the Dyno he was using(not his own, a BMW shop's, he found that one of the sensors was faulty and had to deactivate it so it didn't go on the fritz when trying to get a plot. Also the power runs shown in the graph were done in fifth gear rather than 4th like I thought.

Here are the texts since he explained it better than I am.

Attachment 237840

Attachment 237841

Attachment 237842

Makes sense to me :) Problem solved.

That's a reasonable explanation for why the spool on the dyno was so bad -- just like if the run had been done in 2nd, with no load the motor is spinning up faster than the turbo can.

The only potential downside to this is that if it's not making full boost until, say 4500 RPM whereas it would make it at 3500 RPM on the street, that means there are a few cells that haven't been tuned on the dyno because he could never put the car into those cells.

--Ian

He tuned it with a load on it, just did the power pulls with no load. The load worked, but screwed up the graph if it was on.

I feel for the guy. We owned a Dynocom unit for about 6 months in 2011. The manufacturer is beyond incompetent and the dynos are total junk.

Exactly. The actual tuning itself was done correctly with load since he was looking at the megasquirt data, but to get an accurate graph plot, he had to pull the load due to the sensor going on the fritz if load was applied

So the actual HP/TQ is accurate, just not the power in relation to RPMs, which is would show results much more in line with similar builds.

So I hope to get a few runs this weekend on a different Dyno in Vegas this weekend when I go down for the autocross on Sunday.

Correction. The torque would be accurate but shifted. The HP is a calculated number that requires accurate RPM as an input. You'll note that on your plot, you still crossed at 5250, even though the RPM is bogus. So . . . .

Enough drama. When is your track day?

Don't have one planned any time soon, but that is mostly due to being really busy at work lately....employees, equipment failure, etc...

I need to take a look at what events are happening soon and see what I can make.

I come back from vaca and this thread has gone from awesome to over 9,000

well done el heffe that is some serious power and love the videos

PS: and I too was shocked by the lack of low end torque but the dudes explanation does make sense to me too

That is due to the advances in Turbo Encabulator technology!

ah yes, there have been leaps and bounds in the fields of magneto-reluctance and capacitive diractance.

Awesome build, awesome numbers.

Finally got some pussy from Brainiack

https://www.miataturbo.net/attachmen...ine=1430357414

you spelled it correctly, so I fixed it

just spell it phonetically like i did.

I'd love to take a ride in your car sometime but after looking up your location I can understand why it's so tough to get a dyno. Maybe FM would be willing to open their doors for a few pulls? Not exactly close but hey you get to see FM...?

I'll get another run done in Vegas when time permitting, not huge on my importance list though.

Right now waiting on a few AN fittings from Fab9 to solve my fuel leaking issue once and for all. 70 psi rail pressure is a bit much for hose clamps and LAPS fuel line apparently. Gonna have full -6an fuel lines off the rail to the fuel regulator. All the AN!

I like this!

Can he polish the braided hoses in the meantime?

;)

I would but I'm experimenting with push lock fittings for the fuel system for a variety of reasons. Plus, everything is E85 compatible if I ever get my hands on it down the road.

(only in black)
https://www.miataturbo.net/attachmen...ine=1430538199
http://www.russellperformance.com/mc...ges/side-7.jpg

FM is happy to dyno cars if you pay them. They don't do it for free. :)

If you're going to the open house in August and want to dyno then, it's best to get reservations in early because it fills up.

--Ian

I keep forgetting people think I'm close to CO due to living in Southern Utah. Utah is a huge state and I live in the southwest corner of it. Flyin' Miata is 5 hours from Cedar City. Not something I'd be willing to make a drive to Dyno the car for unless their Dyno is made of fairy dust and unicorn tears. It would be cool to see their facility though.

On another note. I refinished my steering wheel again. It must not have like the leather conditioner I was using as it stripped the top coat off and was looking a little beat. So I removed the top coat and refinished it and then buffed it with a dry microfiber towel. Just going to use water and some light interior protector from now on.

Attachment 237815

Also bought these adjustable AN wrenched after a couple people recommended them(thanks Bryan), for my fuel fittings and to stop further damage to my turbo fittings. There are a ton of options and buying multiple of each type was looking expensive. CNC'd billet aluminum. Yum.

They don't loosen up as you use them supposedly as well, which I always found annoying on other adjustable wrenches. They are so light they feel really cheap, because my muscle memory is used to the heft and feel of steel tools. They are far from bad quality though. Hopefully I have these in my tool kit for a very long time.

Attachment 237816

No link?

:noob:;)
Vibrant Performance ::.

I didn't buy mine here but it gives you a starting point.

For leather, I use Ultra Shield leather care cleaner and conditioner. It's made for furniture, and it works great on seats. If you use it sparingly, it leaves the leather soft, but not oily or slippery feeling. A $10 bottle will do an entire sofa several times, so 1 bottle should last for years doing seats and trim.

Those wrenches look pretty interesting. I've just been using an adjustable wrench with electrical tape on it. Seems to be working well so far.

Wow, this thing is great! Looking at the video, this thing just makes smooth and effortless power. It's almost like a larger displacement motor.

I guess that's EFR for ya, but damn.

I should've just done that but I like having the right tool for the job. I've gotten a little tired of the, "make a tool work but it is a pain in the ass" method I've done in the past.

It really is suprising just how different it hits. It is still scary, but not in the brutal sense like the 2860rs. When the 2860 hit full boost....look out...and hope you are going in a straight line. With the EFR's linearity it just makes the car so much more predictable, as you said, a larger displacement NA motor.

Not to talk shit about the potato or your car/abilities, but I think a lot of that was in your tune.

So what, like a rotrex? :rofl:

You have no idea how antsy I'm getting as mine comes together. :eek3dance

psshhh don't be hatin' because your car isn't assembled yet G! ;) :dealwithit:

I'm sure it was partially tune related, but the delivery is really quite different. Before the car was stolen and it was all sorted it still hit pretty visciously.

And yes, the Rotrex comparison was quite the exaggeration in retrospect but ya'll know what I mean....

Fun was not had yesterday...

So I've had misfire issues for as long as I can remember on cylinder #1, always chalked it up to a faulty COP or spark plug but after putting in fresh plugs gapped even narrower it finally stopped misfiring on cyl #1 but would always return at idle.

So I finally got off my lazy ass and did a compression test and leakdown test and it showed low compression on cyl #1, and didn't rise after squirting some oil in the cylinder. So knowing that I did a leakdown test and saw that it was leaking from my exhaust valve on #1. Cylinders 2, 3, and 4 all were stable and had the exact same compression numbers.

So after considering my options I pulled the head. Dropping it off at an engine shop later today to find out the full story before I make a decision on what I replace. The original owner did a 3 way valve job with backcut valves but used the 99 valves that came with the head.

Shop I'm dropping the head off to is a performance drag motor shop and works on a lot of import motors as well and has been in business for 30 years so I am not really nervous about their experience/quality.

And before anyone says it, no this was not due to my tune I had done recently. It was a prevalent issue before it was tuned, most likely caused by myself learning how to tune the car and/or the rollover incident.

Not mad about it, as it is part of the reality you accept when you enter this "world", and seeing as there is no rush to get it done I'm not feeling ansy or annoyed to meet a deadline. Luckily it wasn't the bottom end, as that could have caused this to be considerably more expensive.

Took me 3 hours to pull the head, and the only tricky part was getting the CAS to clear the firewall. Really a fairly undramatic job considering how I was building it up in my head.

Probably going to go with Supertech valves to replace the OEM valves and maybe dual light valve springs for a little more assurance.

Let the fun begin...again! ;)

https://www.miataturbo.net/attachmen...ine=1430747551

Attachment 237809

Attachment 237810

Attachment 237811

Two bolts to remove the cap and the CAS will just slip up and out.

Wait isn't this a '99? Why are you running the CAS at all?

Jeff, as you know, I've been pulling my head pretty regularly (actually, valves are holding up fine now that I changed machine shops). I recommend that you remove those studs before pulling/installing the head. I didn't at first, and the head would sometimes cock and drag on the studs. Having them out of the way makes things much easier.

Probably because the CAS is to modify into "one trigger per cam rotation" and run full sequential with a crank trigger wheel.

Until megasquirt supports 36-1T with NB cam signal we're stuck with this shit.

I do the same on my '95 with '99 head. Let me retain the OEM '95 harness and MSPNP9495. Perhaps I shouldn't?

Bummer dude, Ed told me about this yesterday. Hope the machine shop has good news.

Not one comment on this? Man, you guys are really slipping.

Boy, that escalated quickly.
I find it kinda funny that the ONE thing you haven't completely re-done yet is the one thing you're finally re-doing.

:bowrofl:

Scatter at high rpm. I was in the middle of buying shit to convert mine to full NB1 triggers before i got rid of it.