Hustler's build thread 2.0, the natural aspiration connection
09-02-2012, 11:07 PM
#223
Ugh I feel your pain man. A few weeks ago when I just got my car back together for the first start I noticed a leak when I filled the coolant. The stupid paper gasket they supply didn't seal so I had to remove the thermo housing and spacer to do RTV instead. That is *not* a fun place to work on a Miata.
Reply
0
0
09-02-2012, 11:30 PM
#224
Tour de Franzia
Thread Starter
iTrader: (6)
Join Date: Jun 2006
Location: Republic of Dallas
Posts: 29,085
Total Cats: 375
Ugh I feel your pain man. A few weeks ago when I just got my car back together for the first start I noticed a leak when I filled the coolant. The stupid paper gasket they supply didn't seal so I had to remove the thermo housing and spacer to do RTV instead. That is *not* a fun place to work on a Miata.
M-tuned reroute > *
Reply
0
0
09-04-2012, 04:16 PM
#226
Junior Member
Join Date: May 2010
Posts: 93
Total Cats: -1
My turn to get yelled at/banned:
How much power would you be leaving on the table if you had been using an '01 bottom end and a '99 head with the cam swap? Would the lower 10:1 compression ratio have made tuning easier and netted within 5-10 whp of the 11.5:1, albeit at the expense of some wow factor?
How much power would you be leaving on the table if you had been using an '01 bottom end and a '99 head with the cam swap? Would the lower 10:1 compression ratio have made tuning easier and netted within 5-10 whp of the 11.5:1, albeit at the expense of some wow factor?
Reply
0
0
09-04-2012, 06:11 PM
#229
My turn to get yelled at/banned:
How much power would you be leaving on the table if you had been using an '01 bottom end and a '99 head with the cam swap? Would the lower 10:1 compression ratio have made tuning easier and netted within 5-10 whp of the 11.5:1, albeit at the expense of some wow factor?
How much power would you be leaving on the table if you had been using an '01 bottom end and a '99 head with the cam swap? Would the lower 10:1 compression ratio have made tuning easier and netted within 5-10 whp of the 11.5:1, albeit at the expense of some wow factor?
Reply
0
0
09-05-2012, 01:15 AM
#230
Newb
Join Date: Aug 2011
Location: Brisbane
Posts: 39
Total Cats: -14
[NA] Most HP with a Naturally aspirated engine?***Read me! People as this every day!*** - MX-5 Miata Forum
You will make 6/10ths of f all. I built and race an NA MX5. Bottom line these motors suck a$$ for NA power. Any turbo powered mx5 eats me for breakfast in a straight line.
Hustler, man up and get a kia 4.8 diff and shift like a ****, enough said!
Reply
0
0
09-05-2012, 01:29 AM
#231
Elite Member
iTrader: (1)
Join Date: May 2009
Location: Jacksonville, FL
Posts: 5,155
Total Cats: 406
They dont "suck ***" for NA power. There is no real difference between NA power and turbo power, its just typically said that turbo is the way to go with these engines because the head and cams are very turbo oriented in their stock form.
The problem is that nobody is trying to get real NA power. There are lots of people that have built NA BPs but people are simply not doing it right. Theyre not going for enough compression, not creating enough quench, not doing radical enough cams, and not reving high enough.
The BP is very similar to the Honda B18B. It too has a not so good rod ratio, a not so good flowing head, some not so good stock cams. A lot of people just throw a VTEC head on there, but there are plenty others who have taken huge amounts of material off of the head to get big quench pads and CR ratios of 13-14+, ported the **** out of the head, thrown in wild cams, and achieved good BMEP at high RPM, resulting in well in excess of 100 hp/liter at the wheels.
Hustler seems to have built an NA motor around the idea of it being reliable on the track, which means not so many revs, and pretty mild compression.
The problem is that nobody is trying to get real NA power. There are lots of people that have built NA BPs but people are simply not doing it right. Theyre not going for enough compression, not creating enough quench, not doing radical enough cams, and not reving high enough.
The BP is very similar to the Honda B18B. It too has a not so good rod ratio, a not so good flowing head, some not so good stock cams. A lot of people just throw a VTEC head on there, but there are plenty others who have taken huge amounts of material off of the head to get big quench pads and CR ratios of 13-14+, ported the **** out of the head, thrown in wild cams, and achieved good BMEP at high RPM, resulting in well in excess of 100 hp/liter at the wheels.
Hustler seems to have built an NA motor around the idea of it being reliable on the track, which means not so many revs, and pretty mild compression.
Reply
0
0
09-05-2012, 01:41 AM
#232
Newb
Join Date: Aug 2011
Location: Brisbane
Posts: 39
Total Cats: -14
Yes they do.
this forum said so!!!
Take a look at duratec motor for example.
right exhaust and tune 203 bhp
set of CM-DUR02s 250-260 bhp.
Or if you want to go the whole hog, cnc head, ITB, cams, rods, pistons 300+ Bhp all day every day no problem, drive it to the track and drive it home.
Lets not even start with hondas.
this forum said so!!!Take a look at duratec motor for example.
right exhaust and tune 203 bhp
set of CM-DUR02s 250-260 bhp.
Or if you want to go the whole hog, cnc head, ITB, cams, rods, pistons 300+ Bhp all day every day no problem, drive it to the track and drive it home.
Lets not even start with hondas.
Reply
0
0
09-05-2012, 01:48 AM
#233
Elite Member
iTrader: (1)
Join Date: May 2009
Location: Jacksonville, FL
Posts: 5,155
Total Cats: 406
Duratec 2.0? Because bull ******* ****.
Maybe on a happy sunshine dust dynojet or something, but youre not picking up 60 hp from an exhaust and a tune.
As for 300hp and still streetable, thats weapons grade bullshit for almost any engine of that displacement.
Assuming a BMEP of 200 psi, something that is quite difficult to do on any engine, especially a street car, you could only hope to make ~162 ft/lbs at peak BMEP. That means that in order to make 300hp you would have to acheive BMEP of 200 psi at a whoping 9700 rpm. This is not a practicle example though, since you wont be at peak BMEP at peak power, so that 9700 is more like 10 or even 11k rpm.
SO unless youre idea of streetable is idling at 2k rpm, Im going to have to call bullshit.
Maybe on a happy sunshine dust dynojet or something, but youre not picking up 60 hp from an exhaust and a tune.
As for 300hp and still streetable, thats weapons grade bullshit for almost any engine of that displacement.
Assuming a BMEP of 200 psi, something that is quite difficult to do on any engine, especially a street car, you could only hope to make ~162 ft/lbs at peak BMEP. That means that in order to make 300hp you would have to acheive BMEP of 200 psi at a whoping 9700 rpm. This is not a practicle example though, since you wont be at peak BMEP at peak power, so that 9700 is more like 10 or even 11k rpm.
SO unless youre idea of streetable is idling at 2k rpm, Im going to have to call bullshit.
Last edited by Full_Tilt_Boogie; 09-05-2012 at 02:01 AM.
Reply
0
0
09-05-2012, 01:57 AM
#234
Newb
Join Date: Aug 2011
Location: Brisbane
Posts: 39
Total Cats: -14
Right exhaust, CM-DUR01 cams, and tune! 203bhp.
Point is you are real pushing the motor to make any think like this hp without 10-15k with a miata motor, which will need to rebuilt every other race meet.
Reply
0
0
09-05-2012, 04:36 AM
#235
Elite Member
iTrader: (2)
Join Date: Jan 2007
Location: Los Angeles, CA
Posts: 8,682
Total Cats: 130
I would say that you are a big fat ***** but both of my turbo cars (miata, subie) are currently broken.
And both of my nat aspirated cars (another miata, IS-F) are working reliably despite consistent megawhorage.
Once upon a time I had dreams of tracking my big boost miata but after cracking my ARTech manifold both at the welds AND cracking the Schedule 40 pipe itself, AND blowing a transmission, I think my track days would likely be quite short and extremely expensive.
My vote is that you drive a turbo miata as your daily and nat asp as your track car. Your turbo setup is well sorted and should be nice and reliable for funhappy trips to grocery store. Seriously.
And both of my nat aspirated cars (another miata, IS-F) are working reliably despite consistent megawhorage.
Once upon a time I had dreams of tracking my big boost miata but after cracking my ARTech manifold both at the welds AND cracking the Schedule 40 pipe itself, AND blowing a transmission, I think my track days would likely be quite short and extremely expensive.
My vote is that you drive a turbo miata as your daily and nat asp as your track car. Your turbo setup is well sorted and should be nice and reliable for funhappy trips to grocery store. Seriously.
Reply
0
0
****'s gonna get real!
09-05-2012, 11:25 AM
#237
Senior Member
iTrader: (7)
Join Date: Sep 2009
Location: Royal Oak Michigan
Posts: 754
Total Cats: 68
I would say that you are a big fat ***** but both of my turbo cars (miata, subie) are currently broken.
And both of my nat aspirated cars (another miata, IS-F) are working reliably despite consistent megawhorage.
Once upon a time I had dreams of tracking my big boost miata but after cracking my ARTech manifold both at the welds AND cracking the Schedule 40 pipe itself, AND blowing a transmission, I think my track days would likely be quite short and extremely expensive.
My vote is that you drive a turbo miata as your daily and nat asp as your track car. Your turbo setup is well sorted and should be nice and reliable for funhappy trips to grocery store. Seriously.
And both of my nat aspirated cars (another miata, IS-F) are working reliably despite consistent megawhorage.
Once upon a time I had dreams of tracking my big boost miata but after cracking my ARTech manifold both at the welds AND cracking the Schedule 40 pipe itself, AND blowing a transmission, I think my track days would likely be quite short and extremely expensive.
My vote is that you drive a turbo miata as your daily and nat asp as your track car. Your turbo setup is well sorted and should be nice and reliable for funhappy trips to grocery store. Seriously.
I plan to keep tracking my car even after the bigger power setup is complete. I'll run a dedicated track tune with less power but it will be reliable.
Reply
0
0
09-05-2012, 05:18 PM
#240
Tour de Franzia
Thread Starter
iTrader: (6)
Join Date: Jun 2006
Location: Republic of Dallas
Posts: 29,085
Total Cats: 375
My turn to get yelled at/banned:
How much power would you be leaving on the table if you had been using an '01 bottom end and a '99 head with the cam swap? Would the lower 10:1 compression ratio have made tuning easier and netted within 5-10 whp of the 11.5:1, albeit at the expense of some wow factor?
How much power would you be leaving on the table if you had been using an '01 bottom end and a '99 head with the cam swap? Would the lower 10:1 compression ratio have made tuning easier and netted within 5-10 whp of the 11.5:1, albeit at the expense of some wow factor?
Compared to an F20 or K motor, they suck *** for NA power.
The problem is that nobody is trying to get real NA power. There are lots of people that have built NA BPs but people are simply not doing it right. Theyre not going for enough compression, not creating enough quench, not doing radical enough cams, and not reving high enough.
Bingo. It's important to remember that 11.5:1 comp ratio is not really that high in the world of 93-octane and up not built for the 87-octane buffer. I don't have the money to rev it and want to run pump gas. One day I'll fill-er up with corn and see what it does.
Reply
0
0
