Hustler's build thread 2.0, the natural aspiration connection - Page 12 - Miata Turbo Forum - Boost cars, acquire cats.

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Old 09-02-2012, 04:59 PM   #221
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I mayhaps be selling my MS3x and EV14 650's if interested.
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Old 09-02-2012, 06:35 PM   #222
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I mayhaps be selling my MS3x and EV14 650's if interested.
I definitely want the injectors.
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Old 09-03-2012, 12:07 AM   #223
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This just in:
My begi spacer leaks at the sensor. Shoot me in the face, please.
Ugh I feel your pain man. A few weeks ago when I just got my car back together for the first start I noticed a leak when I filled the coolant. The stupid paper gasket they supply didn't seal so I had to remove the thermo housing and spacer to do RTV instead. That is *not* a fun place to work on a Miata.
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Old 09-03-2012, 12:30 AM   #224
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Ugh I feel your pain man. A few weeks ago when I just got my car back together for the first start I noticed a leak when I filled the coolant. The stupid paper gasket they supply didn't seal so I had to remove the thermo housing and spacer to do RTV instead. That is *not* a fun place to work on a Miata.
The threads on the sensor don't seal and I had to belt-sand the bottom of the spacer to clear the six speed.

M-tuned reroute > *
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Old 09-03-2012, 12:39 AM   #225
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diy re-route> ***
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Old 09-04-2012, 05:16 PM   #226
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My turn to get yelled at/banned:

How much power would you be leaving on the table if you had been using an '01 bottom end and a '99 head with the cam swap? Would the lower 10:1 compression ratio have made tuning easier and netted within 5-10 whp of the 11.5:1, albeit at the expense of some wow factor?
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Old 09-04-2012, 06:05 PM   #227
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For whatever its worth: Ive done just that in the green 99 and it felt noticeably faster in the upper rpm range than a stock 99. About the same down low.Though this is all just butt-dyno comparisons on 91oct stock ecu and everything else
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Old 09-04-2012, 06:11 PM   #228
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It would be my car with .5 more compression, square top, cam swap, and much lighter rotating mass. Well that and about 300+ lbs lighter... so a totally differnt car...
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Old 09-04-2012, 07:11 PM   #229
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Originally Posted by MoonieGT View Post
My turn to get yelled at/banned:

How much power would you be leaving on the table if you had been using an '01 bottom end and a '99 head with the cam swap? Would the lower 10:1 compression ratio have made tuning easier and netted within 5-10 whp of the 11.5:1, albeit at the expense of some wow factor?
That's what we're trying to determine. We think that there will be fueling and ECU limitations for us to get to our ultimate goal.
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Old 09-05-2012, 02:15 AM   #230
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Originally Posted by MoonieGT View Post
My turn to get yelled at/banned:

How much power would you be leaving on the table
All of it!

[NA] Most HP with a Naturally aspirated engine?***Read me! People as this every day!*** - MX-5 Miata Forum

You will make 6/10ths of f all. I built and race an NA MX5. Bottom line these motors suck a$$ for NA power. Any turbo powered mx5 eats me for breakfast in a straight line.

Hustler, man up and get a kia 4.8 diff and shift like a ****, enough said!
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Old 09-05-2012, 02:29 AM   #231
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They dont "suck ***" for NA power. There is no real difference between NA power and turbo power, its just typically said that turbo is the way to go with these engines because the head and cams are very turbo oriented in their stock form.
The problem is that nobody is trying to get real NA power. There are lots of people that have built NA BPs but people are simply not doing it right. Theyre not going for enough compression, not creating enough quench, not doing radical enough cams, and not reving high enough.

The BP is very similar to the Honda B18B. It too has a not so good rod ratio, a not so good flowing head, some not so good stock cams. A lot of people just throw a VTEC head on there, but there are plenty others who have taken huge amounts of material off of the head to get big quench pads and CR ratios of 13-14+, ported the **** out of the head, thrown in wild cams, and achieved good BMEP at high RPM, resulting in well in excess of 100 hp/liter at the wheels.

Hustler seems to have built an NA motor around the idea of it being reliable on the track, which means not so many revs, and pretty mild compression.
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Old 09-05-2012, 02:41 AM   #232
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Originally Posted by Full_Tilt_Boogie View Post
They dont "suck ***" for NA power.
Yes they do. this forum said so!!!

Take a look at duratec motor for example.
right exhaust and tune 203 bhp
set of CM-DUR02s 250-260 bhp.
Or if you want to go the whole hog, cnc head, ITB, cams, rods, pistons 300+ Bhp all day every day no problem, drive it to the track and drive it home.

Lets not even start with hondas.
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Old 09-05-2012, 02:48 AM   #233
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Duratec 2.0? Because bull ******* ****.
Maybe on a happy sunshine dust dynojet or something, but youre not picking up 60 hp from an exhaust and a tune.

As for 300hp and still streetable, thats weapons grade bullshit for almost any engine of that displacement.
Assuming a BMEP of 200 psi, something that is quite difficult to do on any engine, especially a street car, you could only hope to make ~162 ft/lbs at peak BMEP. That means that in order to make 300hp you would have to acheive BMEP of 200 psi at a whoping 9700 rpm. This is not a practicle example though, since you wont be at peak BMEP at peak power, so that 9700 is more like 10 or even 11k rpm.

SO unless youre idea of streetable is idling at 2k rpm, Im going to have to call bullshit.

Last edited by Full_Tilt_Boogie; 09-05-2012 at 03:01 AM.
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Old 09-05-2012, 02:57 AM   #234
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Originally Posted by Full_Tilt_Boogie View Post
Duratec 2.0? Because bull ******* ****.

Maybe on a happy sunshine dust dynojet or something, but youre not picking up 60 hp from an exhaust and a tune.
Sorry my pisstake,

Right exhaust, CM-DUR01 cams, and tune! 203bhp.

Point is you are real pushing the motor to make any think like this hp without 10-15k with a miata motor, which will need to rebuilt every other race meet.
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Old 09-05-2012, 05:36 AM   #235
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I would say that you are a big fat ***** but both of my turbo cars (miata, subie) are currently broken.

And both of my nat aspirated cars (another miata, IS-F) are working reliably despite consistent megawhorage.

Once upon a time I had dreams of tracking my big boost miata but after cracking my ARTech manifold both at the welds AND cracking the Schedule 40 pipe itself, AND blowing a transmission, I think my track days would likely be quite short and extremely expensive.

My vote is that you drive a turbo miata as your daily and nat asp as your track car. Your turbo setup is well sorted and should be nice and reliable for funhappy trips to grocery store. Seriously.
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Old 09-05-2012, 05:45 AM   #236
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Holy ****. Did Faefae really come in to talk **** to Hustler the second he was unbanned?

****'s gonna get real!
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Old 09-05-2012, 12:25 PM   #237
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Originally Posted by Faeflora View Post
I would say that you are a big fat ***** but both of my turbo cars (miata, subie) are currently broken.

And both of my nat aspirated cars (another miata, IS-F) are working reliably despite consistent megawhorage.

Once upon a time I had dreams of tracking my big boost miata but after cracking my ARTech manifold both at the welds AND cracking the Schedule 40 pipe itself, AND blowing a transmission, I think my track days would likely be quite short and extremely expensive.

My vote is that you drive a turbo miata as your daily and nat asp as your track car. Your turbo setup is well sorted and should be nice and reliable for funhappy trips to grocery store. Seriously.

I plan to keep tracking my car even after the bigger power setup is complete. I'll run a dedicated track tune with less power but it will be reliable.
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Old 09-05-2012, 02:34 PM   #238
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I plan to keep tracking my car even after the bigger power setup is complete. I'll run a dedicated track tune with less power but it will be reliable.
you'll break ****
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Old 09-05-2012, 02:46 PM   #239
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Originally Posted by blaen99 View Post
Holy ****. Did Faefae really come in to talk **** to Hustler the second he was unbanned?

****'s gonna get real!

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Old 09-05-2012, 06:18 PM   #240
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Quote:
Originally Posted by MoonieGT View Post
My turn to get yelled at/banned:

How much power would you be leaving on the table if you had been using an '01 bottom end and a '99 head with the cam swap? Would the lower 10:1 compression ratio have made tuning easier and netted within 5-10 whp of the 11.5:1, albeit at the expense of some wow factor?
Quote:
Originally Posted by MoonieGT View Post
It would be my car with .5 more compression, square top, cam swap, and much lighter rotating mass. Well that and about 300+ lbs lighter... so a totally differnt car...
I never cared about the wow factor, it was sitting in my garage so it was the prime candidate. I wish it were 11:1, but I'll take what I can get for the right price. The dyno will tell the story but I believe this engine will need corn or leaded fuel to really show the benefits of high-compression.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Full_Tilt_Boogie View Post
They dont "suck ***" for NA power.
Compared to an F20 or K motor, they suck *** for NA power.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Full_Tilt_Boogie View Post
The problem is that nobody is trying to get real NA power. There are lots of people that have built NA BPs but people are simply not doing it right. Theyre not going for enough compression, not creating enough quench, not doing radical enough cams, and not reving high enough.
949 did it, I followed suit, many others will come next. If I had the money, I'd send the head to a shop like Endyne and have them do magic, but that's out of my price range. Right now junk-yard engines in my cheap track car is the best option. Once I have a house and trailer, that may change.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Full_Tilt_Boogie View Post
Hustler seems to have built an NA motor around the idea of it being reliable on the track, which means not so many revs, and pretty mild compression.
Bingo. It's important to remember that 11.5:1 comp ratio is not really that high in the world of 93-octane and up not built for the 87-octane buffer. I don't have the money to rev it and want to run pump gas. One day I'll fill-er up with corn and see what it does.
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