Hustler's build thread 2.0, the natural aspiration connection - Page 15 - Miata Turbo Forum - Boost cars, acquire cats.

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Old 09-08-2012, 11:50 PM   #281  
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Any plans to run E85? Dont know if you're trying to get every single pony you can but it should help with knock.
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Old 09-09-2012, 01:16 AM   #282  
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What exhaust was on the car when dynoed? I assume you didn't get the RS yet if it was ordered yesterday.
Leaky something or other that I borrowed. Very leaky.
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Old 09-09-2012, 01:16 AM   #283  
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Any plans to run E85? Dont know if you're trying to get every single pony you can but it should help with knock.
I'm considering it heavily for next year.
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Old 09-09-2012, 02:42 AM   #284  
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I can't wait until this car has 21st century electronics on it. It's starting to show the potential of which I imagined. This car won't run 1:27's at Hallett, but I think 1:28's will be attainable...even if it's a 1:28.9.
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Old 09-09-2012, 03:42 AM   #285  
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Originally Posted by Leafy View Post
You're getting knock on tip in? MS doesnt have transient in knock retard like any halfway decent OEM ecu made this century?
Is this Techsalvager?

I've never, EVER gotten tip-in knock on ANY of the cars I've tuned.
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Old 09-09-2012, 04:43 AM   #286  
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Just ignore him. 50% of his post content is completely and utterly BS. internet knowledge ftl
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Old 09-09-2012, 10:46 AM   #287  
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Gotta love when the new girlfriends son of the long lost brother of my friends mother says this sucks so now i spread stuff that it sucks.
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Old 09-09-2012, 12:14 PM   #288  
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Originally Posted by Reverant View Post
Is this Techsalvager?

I've never, EVER gotten tip-in knock on ANY of the cars I've tuned.
I have, its from pushing the timing to the limit. You need it on map cars for the same reason you need transient throttle enrichment. The real air load has increased before the measured air load has. And running the tune at the limit you will get it. Or if you're just an OEM who has the car tuned for gas mileage. Often you pass through the gas mileage cells at this time where you're running crap loads of timing. But I'll normally give up some power and fuel economy if the ecu doesnt have tip in knock retard.

Last edited by Leafy; 09-09-2012 at 12:37 PM.
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Old 09-09-2012, 01:04 PM   #289  
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So wait, MS doesnt have tip-in retard?
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Old 09-13-2012, 01:57 AM   #290  
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Bros, my exhaust doesn't fit. Bauce.
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Old 09-13-2012, 02:01 AM   #291  
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Open header. Post vidz.
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Old 09-13-2012, 08:25 AM   #292  
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Originally Posted by Full_Tilt_Boogie View Post
So wait, MS doesnt have tip-in retard?
No, I heard MS DOESN'T have tip-in retard.
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Old 09-13-2012, 08:34 AM   #293  
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Why tip-in retard timing when you should tip-in enrich fuel to maintain AFR instead?
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Old 09-13-2012, 08:35 AM   #294  
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Don't you want a setup like techsalvager? he does everything right.
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Old 09-13-2012, 09:36 AM   #295  
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Quote:
Originally Posted by TurboTim View Post
Why tip-in retard timing when you should tip-in enrich fuel to maintain AFR instead?
Even with proper afr from transient fueling you can still get knock either from the map sensor not reading the actual load (same reason you need transient fueling) and passing through cells with way too much advance. Or even just from the nature of whats happening during those transient throttle events. If the OEM's do it and you hit this preventative knock retard on a stock car with a stock tune, don't you think it would be a nice thing to have?
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Old 09-13-2012, 09:39 AM   #296  
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no.
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Old 09-13-2012, 10:00 AM   #297  
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Leafy View Post
Even with proper afr from transient fueling you can still get knock either from the map sensor not reading the actual load (same reason you need transient fueling)
You need transient fueling trims due to physics and thermodynamics. I imagine having lag in the MAP sensor signal would add to the issue. Acceleration enrichment based of TPS rate of change is, in my lowly opinion, the right way to do it.

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If the OEM's do it and you hit this preventative knock retard on a stock car with a stock tune, don't you think it would be a nice thing to have?
Just because OEM do it does not make it right.
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Old 09-13-2012, 10:09 AM   #298  
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Quote:
Originally Posted by TurboTim View Post
You need transient fueling trims due to physics and thermodynamics. I imagine having lag in the MAP sensor signal would add to the issue. Acceleration enrichment based of TPS rate of change is, in my lowly opinion, the right way to do it. .
Why is spark immune from this effect if fuel isnt? Remember with all other variable held equal detonation resistance is proportional to air flow. If you're determining air flow through math based off of a map sensor and have already agreed that a map sensor doesn't give accurate results during transients then how to you expect to be using good data to determine your spark advance?

And yes acceleration enrichment based off of delta TPS is the right way to do any transient response tables because the tps reacts instantly to the drivers requested air flow.
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Old 09-13-2012, 10:32 AM   #299  
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Leafy View Post
Why is spark immune from this effect if fuel isnt?
The majority of the issue with lean tip-in is due to the fact that a gaseous fuel/air mixture at xxx absolute pressure will separate into not a gaseous fuel/air mixture if that pressure changes rapidly and positively, the extent of which varies depending on a few variables. Going from a high vacuum to not so much vacuum in a relatively short time period causes some fuel to come out of suspension. Lean spike.

Same reason there is decel enrighment. Snap that throttle shut and the fuel puddled on various walls goes to vapor from the massive vacuum change. Rich spike.

Like we agree, TPS signal is a much more accurate signal, time wise, to tune a trim to account for this phenomenon.

Signal delay within MAP sensor based fuel/ignition maps surely would have an effect too, but not as great in my opinion.

Quote:
If you're determining air flow through math based off of a map sensor and have already agreed that a map sensor doesn't give accurate results during transients then how to you expect to be using good data to determine your spark advance?
I follow you. Valid point taken. I have not seen a deltaTPS/time ignition retard/advance feature in my limited experience with tuneable ECUs. I have also never looked at a megasquirt.

This makes me want to see how much more timing I am running at lots of vacuum compared to atmospheric pressure. I don't think there's much difference so this feature, if it did exist, might not matter much for my particular setup. And under boost, my MAP sensor signal responds quicker than the turbo.
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Old 09-13-2012, 11:11 AM   #300  
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Instert Meme Here:

Runs MS since 2006.

Doesnt care about tip-in retardation.
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