Braineack

iTrader: (62)

weird, i thought they were just trying to figure out who planned the horrific attack that killed over 20 small children and senators...

DNMakinson

iTrader: (3)

I keep thinking of "The Hunger Games".

cordycord

iTrader: (2)

https://www.youtube.com/c/WillProwse YouTube Will Prowse Solar and Battery DIY

https://www.zdnet.com/home-and-offic...-home-battery/

I've got 14 panels going to a single inverter, so my situation may be different than yours. You can use one inverter when you don't have an issue with shade being cast on some of the panels by trees, etc. In-panel inverters make them more expensive, but allow for per-panel monitoring.

good2go

iTrader: (2)

^^ Thanks Joe


One thing to keep in mind is the need for a proper transfer switch of some sort (intelligent/automatic or manual). Otherwise, you're dealing with extension cords or hacking into breaker panels, etc. . . . at which point you might as well consider a simple generator/inverter setup as well. If I had solar, I had probably go with the Enphase inverters and battery backup system.

Joe Perez

iTrader: (8)

This is the first I've heard of in-panel inverters. Interesting concept.

But, seems like it'd be impractical for someone looking to build a true standalone backup system (eg: with battery storage and a transfer switch) rather than a grid-tie system.

I can envision using a large number of small MPPT charge controllers with maybe one controller per 2-3 panels, rather than one or two big controllers with all the panels in series. Is this a configuration which the DIY community has explored?



Political content: I'm sure that [name of political party] has been actively suppressing this technology, due to the influence of [name of powerful lobbying group].

hector

You may be joking but you know it's true.

What I find interesting is how many batteries are needed for said electric independence. Couple that to the shift to EV's (which means you'd use your solar batteries to charge up your EV) and all of a sudden you have 300million cars and houses with how many batteries? Yeah, I've heard about how recyclable the batteries are: it still doesn't add up. And what about all the hydrogen?

I don't have anything against EV's. I think they are fantastic and will likely have one in the near future. I'm just thinking out loud and having all those batteries just doesn't add up to me. It's funny, I saw an interview recently with Gordon Murray and he had the same thought. Not saying I'm on par with Murray, just saying I'm not the only retard with this thought.

fooger03

iTrader: (2)

We're gonna have to accept and develop a battery chemistry that suffers neither the size nor weight constraints we imposed on lithium batteries. We can give up "compact" and "lightweight" in return for "durable" and "less expensive".

cordycord

iTrader: (2)

If we had thorium reactors in our power grid then we could use them to fuel our hydrogen-powered cars, and not really worry (too much) about energy density or conversion efficiency.

cordycord

iTrader: (2)

Every solar panel company on the West Coast nearly demands that you use individual panel inverters for "in-panel monitoring." It's a way of differentiating the more expensive panels from the much cheaper standard panels. Marketing.

Joe Perez

iTrader: (8)

I know that you believe it to be true, which is why it amuses me to say.



You seem to be thinking grid-scale. I was being more pragmatic, and addressing the individual-home doomsday prep which wherestheboost and Cordy were speaking of, with regard to hardening one's own home against rolling blackouts in California.

Joe Perez

iTrader: (8)

Honestly, I'd suggest looking at what the fulltime boondocker RV folks do in this regard. That's a 100 off-the-grid application where there's a lot of DIY going on.

good2go

iTrader: (2)

Are you not familiar with modern microinverters (which are typically more "on-panel" than "in-panel") ??
They are quite good at functioning in both grid tied and standalone configurations.

You jest, but perhaps you haven't heard of the current attempts to tax rooftop solar installations here in CA. ?

Joe Perez

iTrader: (8)

Not at all. Pretty much everything I know about solar is focused on DC output to battery storage.

Putting little inverters on the roof, then rectifying the output into DC to charge batteries, and then inverting it once again for use sounds really inefficient.

I mean, I get that the target market here is people who want to offset the cost of running their air conditioners when the sun is up and its hot outside, but, again, that wasn't the use-case which started this conversation. It was protection against blackouts.


Pretty much impossible to not be grid-tied in most places in CA, from what I understand. Legally, I mean. Mandate grid connections, and charge you for the privilege even if you don't use it.


I have not, but it makes sense. Mandate something, then tax it.

Brought to you by California: the state which had to legislate a $100 million bailout for its marijuana industry, because of taxes and burdensome regulations which have made it nearly impossible to sell weed to stoners without losing money.

good2go

iTrader: (2)

Ok, by your own account, you're grid tied in CA (and Cord is in CA), and he wants a system for backup when the grid goes down (sounds like the use case mentioned), so the fact that you have power in your backup batteries which came to you (for free) from the sun, yet wasn't used as efficiently as possible (cuz microinverters), matters exactly how much when you then have full battery power ready and waiting to be inverted for your refrigerator?

If you had to pay a power company for the inefficient use of power sourced from them, it'd be more of a concern. How can you complain when old Sol's chipping in for free.

Joe Perez

iTrader: (8)

To be clear: I'm learning here, not pretending to speak from a position of absolute authority.

From what I can tell, the answer seems to be cost. Both in terms of sizing the solar panel array, and also the fact that these microinverters appear to be fairly expensive as compared to DC-only MPPT controllers plus one big inverter.

Less efficient conversion equals more panels necessary to support the system. And some of these systems appear only to be capable of operation when grid-tied, and go offline when the external source (which is their frequency reference) goes away.

Again, I'm assuming a simple, backup-only system, with a conventional transfer switch. Just with batteries in place of the generator.

Admittedly, my perspective here is a tad biased. This is my inverter battery at work:


(Panoramic photos of long, narrow rooms look weird.)

Joe Perez

iTrader: (8)

hector

No I was referring to off grid applications. That's why I wrote 300 million EVs and homes. How many batteries is that?

Take for example S Fla. We get plenty of sun for sure so charging batteries during the day is no seeat. But we don't cool off much at night so running AC is a must. Now add two EVs to charge through the night. How much storage will you need? Multiply that by millions. How many batteries is that? Would we just be trading one thing for another? Serious question.

Braineack

iTrader: (62)

Braineack

iTrader: (62)

not widespread.

https://pjmedia.com/news-and-politic...vored-n1603315

Braineack

iTrader: (62)

https://www.hiddenamericans.com/a-wo...culture-shock/