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Old 04-12-2012, 11:25 AM   #201
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yet, people wearing saggy jeans to court get three days in jail...
All I'm saying is that if a dried-up, menaupausal, androgene is going to represent the people as an old French -----, it needs to declare a gender prior to entering the court room.
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Old 04-12-2012, 11:34 AM   #202
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B) Wow... 2nd degree murder? Either she is swinging for the fences or trying to throw the fight (i.e. going for a charge she knows won't stick but makes her look tough). It will definitely be interesting to see how this plays out.
Lots of speculation on this point...the best theory I've heard is that she's intentionally over-reaching a bit on the charges with the hope that Zimmerman will plead down to a manslaughter charge.
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Old 04-12-2012, 11:37 AM   #203
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I didn't watch the video much, just skipped through about 30 seconds of the beast speaking.

At a quick glance, it looks like one of Chris Farley's characters. lol
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Old 04-12-2012, 11:37 AM   #204
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Lots of speculation on this point...the best theory I've heard is that she's intentionally over-reaching a bit on the charges with the hope that Zimmerman will plead down to a manslaughter charge.
finally, "justice" will be served!
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Old 04-12-2012, 11:43 AM   #205
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You guys see that movie where the white guy runs outside the house and beats a hispanic thief/gang member to death in his front lawn? He ends up going to prison, but eventually gets out years later due to the prison making the inmates fight?
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Old 04-12-2012, 11:48 AM   #206
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yet, people wearing saggy jeans to court get three days in jail...
And you don't think that that is an affront to your freedoms?

I think y'all are overreacting. The fact that there is a trial either points to some evidence that the media hasn't acquired (and distorted), or the pragmatic peeps in government don't want a race riot. I have a ton of family in Seminole County, I REALLY don't want a race riot there. If one dude who has dubious claims to innocence has to go through a trial; I can accept his suffering as fair payment for a lack of millions of dollars of damages.


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finally, "justice" will be served!
And how else do you suppose everyone can agree that justice has been served? Should we let the court of public opinion decide? They already have. On distorted evidence that would be thrown out in a real court. If Zimmerman truly believes in his innocence, he won't plead out. A jury of carefully selected peers will decide based on legally admissible evidence if he is guilty. And ya'll know that if it starts looking bad, the prosecutor will drop the charges.

Are you pissed because public outrage caused this guy to be arrested? Public outrage has led to good things too, you know.
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Old 04-12-2012, 11:54 AM   #207
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The fact that there is a trial either points to some evidence that the media hasn't acquired (and distorted), or the pragmatic peeps in government don't want a race riot.
the fact that it took 45 days and a 2nd special prosecuter to bring "dubious" 2nd degree murder charges against him speaks nothing to the law, nor the job of a prosecuter.

even suggesting, that by charging him it might be an effort to prevent a "race riot" causes me to ask you: And you don't think that that is an affront to your freedoms?

Quote:
If one dude who has dubious claims to innocence has to go through a trial; I can accept his suffering as fair payment for a lack of millions of dollars of damages.
dubious? So you were there? you're smarter than the police that arrested him? So it's okay to bend the rules/laws for one person if it might appease a great number?

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And how else do you suppose everyone can agree that justice has been served? Should we let the court of public opinion decide? They already have. On distorted evidence that would be thrown out in a real court. If Zimmerman truly believes in his innocence, he won't plead out. A jury of carefully selected peers will decide based on legally admissible evidence if he is guilty.
you think he's going to get a fair trial? I watched a freaking news sotry brake come across my tv when he was arrested, like he's the FBI's #1 most wanted criminal. I dont even think I saw that when Bin Laden was killed.

The Prosecuter now has to prove that Zimmerman intentionally went after Martin instead of shooting him in self-defense. There's zero evidence, to the public, that would suggest was even close to the truth. The courts are not to be used for fishing expiditions or show trials.

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And ya'll know that if it starts looking bad, the prosecutor will drop the charges.
what a joke. She has all the evidence. She shouldn't be charging anyone with anything unless she can prove that what she's charging them with is actually what can have evidence they can prove it with.

do you forget one of the most value things about being an american citizen? Innocent until proven guilty.

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Public outrage has led to good things too, you know.
AH! There's the strawman!
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Old 04-12-2012, 12:07 PM   #208
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I REALLY don't want a race riot there. If one dude who has dubious claims to innocence has to go through a trial; I can accept his suffering as fair payment for a lack of millions of dollars of damages.
I get that some people can think like this, but to actually share this opinion and flawed logic justifies 10% unemployment.

why not just pull Zimmerman out and gut him? That would really appease the Black Panthers and their class of individual. I mean, there are really two options here, we can either go after the Black Panther guy who advertised the bounty and violence against whites or we can cut off Zimmerman's head. Considering Eric Holder would never utilize the law as an instrument of oppresion against the oppressed, I guess we have to saw off Zimmerman's head.
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Old 04-12-2012, 12:11 PM   #209
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no man, when the court hands over its verdict, either guilty or not, the Panthers will gracefully bow out and drop the issue.

and it wont incite riots in 1992 LA.
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Old 04-12-2012, 12:53 PM   #210
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Originally Posted by braineack View Post
the fact that it took 45 days and a 2nd special prosecuter to bring "dubious" 2nd degree murder charges against him speaks nothing to the law, nor the job of a prosecuter.

Even suggesting, that by charging him it might be an effort to prevent a "race riot" causes me to ask you: And you don't think that that is an affront to your freedoms?

i think that there are a great many things that this country does that affronts my freedoms.

dubious? So you were there? You're smarter than the police that arrested him? So it's okay to bend the rules/laws for one person if it might appease a great number?

i was not there. Neither was anyone else. If you only had one side of a story, would you automatically assume that it was the truth? I don't think we'll ever hear martin's explanation of events, so what actually happened will probably always remain a mystery.

you think he's going to get a fair trial? I watched a freaking news story break come across my tv when he was arrested, like he's the fbi's #1 most wanted criminal. I dont even think i saw that when bin laden was killed.

i do think he'll get a fair trial, if he can get a decent laywer. In our legal system, there has to be evidence beyond a reasonable doubt. There isn't even a preponderance of the evidence against him. If the jury does convict him, i'm positive that there will be an appeal or the judge will declare a mistrial.

the prosecuter now has to prove that zimmerman intentionally went after martin instead of shooting him in self-defense. There's zero evidence, to the public, that would suggest was even close to the truth. The courts are not to be used for fishing expiditions or show trials.

"to the public"

what a joke. She has all the evidence. She shouldn't be charging anyone with anything unless she can prove that what she's charging them with is actually what can have evidence they can prove it with.

are you saying that she doesn't have evidence to charge him?

do you forget one of the most value things about being an american citizen? Innocent until proven guilty.



Ah! There's the strawman!
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no man, when the court hands over its verdict, either guilty or not, the Panthers will gracefully bow out and drop the issue.

and it wont incite riots in 1992 LA.
I forgot about that. In that case, us Central Floridians are kinda screwed.
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Old 04-12-2012, 12:54 PM   #211
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I forgot about that. In that case, us Central Floridians are kinda screwed.

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Old 04-12-2012, 04:03 PM   #212
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he looks exactly like the other white guy in uniform next to him

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Old 04-13-2012, 12:15 PM   #213
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Even Dershowitz thinks the charges are crap:

http://www.realclearpolitics.com/vid...unethical.html
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Old 04-13-2012, 07:01 PM   #214
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My completely amateur attempt at explaining a murder defense.

There are three ways to defend yourself against a murder charge:

IDDI - "I didn't do it"

TOGDI - "That other guy did it"

And

The Affirmative defense - "I did it, I was right to do it"

In the first two examples, the state has to prove beyond a reasonable doubt that you did it. I don't believe you can argue that you were right to do it, only that you didn't do it. (the state will have an easy time proving that he did it)

In the affirmative defense, the burden of proof shifts to the defendant to prove that a reasonable person, knowing what the person did at the time of the shooting would have done the same thing.

If you would like, I can reference my notes from MAG-40 "Massad Ayoob Group, Armed Citizens Rules of engagement."

It is a 40 hour course on the subject. Based on what I know (which is honestly incomplete) I believe Zimmerman's biggest mistake was leaving his truck. However, based on the information I have heard, it would be a miscarriage of justice if he is found guilty. That said, this doesn't prevent him (or his lawyers) from doing or saying something stupid that puts his life in jeopardy.

It all depends on how well he can articulate to the jury what he knew and when he knew it. Also it depends on wither the evidence backs him up and how reliable it is.
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Old 04-14-2012, 03:09 PM   #215
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Old 04-17-2012, 04:01 PM   #216
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Old 04-18-2012, 01:05 AM   #217
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I could care less about the race issue. But I do have a bias against cops end even more so of wannabe cops carrying guns. Personal experience tells me this type of work attracts psychopaths who are more interested in exerting authority over people than preserving the piece for citizens to peruse life liberty and happiness.

I also have an issue with cops not being easily identified as such. I would likely try to defend myself from some thug looking character trying to chase me down and corner me and I don’t want society set up where I always need to be packing a weapon to do it.

If a neighborhood watch guy shoots dead an unarmed teenager with no evidence the teen was breaking any laws He did something wrong.

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Old 04-18-2012, 10:36 AM   #218
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Originally Posted by bbundy View Post
I could care less about the race issue. But I do have a bias against cops end even more so of wannabe cops carrying guns. Personal experience tells me this type of work attracts psychopaths who are more interested in exerting authority over people than preserving the piece for citizens to peruse life liberty and happiness.
In general, I sympathize with those feelings towards cops.

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I also have an issue with cops not being easily identified as such.
Agreed 100%, especially plain clothes cops snatching someone up on the street or drawing down on someone in public (like an undercover cop who fired on a student at a tailgate party at a local university).

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I would likely try to defend myself from some thug looking character trying to chase me down and corner me and I donít want society set up where I always need to be packing a weapon to do it.
Yep, and you should be able to defend yourself if the thug-looking character catches you and assaults you.

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If a neighborhood watch guy shoots dead an unarmed teenager with no evidence the teen was breaking any laws He did something wrong.
If it's that simple, I am with you 100%. Again, if Zimmerman chased down, caught, assualted and then shot Martin, he needs to go to prison.

That does not - so far - appear to be the story supported by the limited evidence we have seen so far. It certainly could be shown in court, though.
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Old 04-18-2012, 10:38 AM   #219
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Originally Posted by bbundy View Post
If a neighborhood watch guy shoots dead an unarmed teenager with no evidence the teen was breaking any laws He did something wrong.
good thing that's not the case...


This is a good read: http://dailycaller.com/2012/04/04/zi...rtin-shooting/
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Old 04-18-2012, 11:03 AM   #220
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Where is your race card now.
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