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Old 12-06-2010, 01:36 PM   #21
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Originally Posted by KPLAFIN View Post
Anyone contibuting classified documents to the site and any US citizen that aids in posting the content to the web should be charged with treason and hung from an oak tree by there ball sack until they die.

/thread.
So you say the NY times reporters who published the Pentagon Papers back in the 70's should have been hung? It turns out that the Supreme court rules journalist are protected.

"When the people fear their government, there is tyranny; when the government fears the people, there is liberty."
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Old 12-06-2010, 01:37 PM   #22
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Compromising American operatives in a time of war is an act of war (Yes, I'm also looking at you Jane Fonda). Compromising classified information during a time of war is an act of war. Persons engaging in an act of war against America during a time of war are enemy combatants and should be dealt with as such.

It really is cut and dry. I don't understand the "isn't that cute" attitude that many in the press have taken about this issue. Julian Assange means us harm. He means for us to lose our wars and for our soldiers to be killed. He means for us to be overpowered by our adversaries and to be conquered by them. This is the most effective way at his disposal to effect these ends. If he could do worse, he would. What part of that agenda should we be fine with?
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Old 12-06-2010, 01:37 PM   #23
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Originally Posted by KPLAFIN View Post
Anyone contibuting classified documents to the site and any US citizen that aids in posting the content to the web should be charged with treason and hung from an oak tree by there ball sack until they die.

/thread.


^ agreed.



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Old 12-06-2010, 01:39 PM   #24
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what if the documents proved that the US government was secretly kidnapping small children and experimenting on them with deadly chemicals?
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Old 12-06-2010, 01:41 PM   #25
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wtf i can't go to wikileaks.org. firefox says fails to find server (i'm on comcast but it appears something fishy is happening with everydns.net). had to go via ip addy 213.251.145.96. hope thats the right wikileaks.

so i pulled the bt and its only 2.8meg (p7 zipped). i'll hafta pick through and take a look for myself. i would advise doing the same for all of my fellow citizens. i saw alot of stuff reported about the leaked global warming emails. i picked through it myself and i was like riiiight ann coulter. you win for the most nonsensical reporting of the entire field.

35 100% 2.8 MB Done 0.0 0.0 0.00 Seeding cablegate-201012061210.7z

EDIT: after a 5 minute tour of the zip it looks like 99% boring meeting minutes.

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Old 12-06-2010, 01:41 PM   #26
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Originally Posted by sixshooter View Post
Compromising American operatives in a time of war is an act of war (Yes, I'm also looking at you Jane Fonda). Compromising classified information during a time of war is an act of war. Persons engaging in an act of war against America during a time of war are enemy combatants and should be dealt with as such.

It really is cut and dry. I don't understand the "isn't that cute" attitude that many in the press have taken about this issue. Julian Assange means us harm. He means for us to lose our wars and for our soldiers to be killed. He means for us to be overpowered by our adversaries and to be conquered by them. This is the most effective way at his disposal to effect these ends. If he could do worse, he would. What part of that agenda should we be fine with?
You do know that not a single person has been confirmed hurt by the Pentagon because of any of the leaks so far? It has always been that it could possibly cause someone to be hurt.
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Old 12-06-2010, 01:41 PM   #27
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^ agreed.



and banned from MT
lolz...

Publishing leaked classified documents /= freedom of the press. There is a line that has to be drawn, clearly CLASSIFIED documents are over that line... It's kind of like the whole ILLEGAL aliens/immigrants argument, yea they're people...blah blah blah...what part of ******* ILLEGAL isn't clear? Arrest them and throw them back across the border, catch them again, shoot em, too easy.
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Old 12-06-2010, 01:41 PM   #28
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what if the documents proved that the US government was secretly kidnapping small children and experimenting on them with deadly chemicals?
Death for leaking them.
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Old 12-06-2010, 01:49 PM   #29
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Death for leaking them.
exactly.
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Old 12-06-2010, 01:52 PM   #30
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Maybe there's a reason gays have traditionally been kept out of the intelligence services, apart from the fact that closeted gay men are easy to blackmail.
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Old 12-06-2010, 02:06 PM   #31
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lolz...

Publishing leaked classified documents /= freedom of the press. There is a line that has to be drawn, clearly CLASSIFIED documents are over that line... It's kind of like the whole ILLEGAL aliens/immigrants argument, yea they're people...blah blah blah...what part of ******* ILLEGAL isn't clear? Arrest them and throw them back across the border, catch them again, shoot em, too easy.
Firstly Wikileaks is not leaking the documents, they are simply publishing what was given to them. Bradley Manning is the guy who "supposedly" stole the initial documents and is in custody. He is the person you have to be mad at, not Wikileaks.

Secondly the case Times v. United States decided by the supreme court that "the need for a free press as a check on government prevents any governmental restraint on the press." So yes press, in this case wikileaks, is allowed to do what they are doing.

Would you be so pissed if it was Chinese documents that were leaked and had all the same information? Would you say that the person who leaked it should be killed?
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Old 12-06-2010, 02:13 PM   #32
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Originally Posted by sixshooter View Post
Compromising American operatives in a time of war is an act of war (Yes, I'm also looking at you Jane Fonda). Compromising classified information during a time of war is an act of war. Persons engaging in an act of war against America during a time of war are enemy combatants and should be dealt with as such.

It really is cut and dry. I don't understand the "isn't that cute" attitude that many in the press have taken about this issue. Julian Assange means us harm. He means for us to lose our wars and for our soldiers to be killed. He means for us to be overpowered by our adversaries and to be conquered by them. This is the most effective way at his disposal to effect these ends. If he could do worse, he would. What part of that agenda should we be fine with?
sixshooter, every argument i've seen you write looks well-reasoned, but i'm still puzzling over this one. operatives sure i agree. but in the larger context i don't see how its cut-and-dry, for the reasons outlined by mcnamara himself in the fog of war. maybe its the subject itself which lends itself to hyperbole.
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Old 12-06-2010, 02:15 PM   #33
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Would you be so pissed if it was Chinese documents that were leaked and had all the same information? Would you say that the person who leaked it should be killed?
I would. I want mods who leak info killed so yea, death to the Chinese person!
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Old 12-06-2010, 02:19 PM   #34
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I would want the Chinese government to deal with their people, yes...and they do. You can't honestly sit there and think that wikileaks is innocent just because they "only posted what was given to them" that is the most asinine comment I've read on this site in a long time, I'm done in this thread. Wikileaks is putting information ou there that COULD (yes COULD, not HAS, but COULD and that is good enough for me) put innocent AMERICAN lives at risk. I'm in the military, I'm going to Afghanistan soon, we have it hard enough without idiots doing **** to make it worse. They're traitors and should be dealt with as such. Firing squad or the gallows, I don't care, but deal with it one way or another already.
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Old 12-06-2010, 02:22 PM   #35
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Quote:
Originally Posted by sixshooter View Post
Compromising American operatives in a time of war is an act of war (Yes, I'm also looking at you Jane Fonda). Compromising classified information during a time of war is an act of war. Persons engaging in an act of war against America during a time of war are enemy combatants and should be dealt with as such.

It really is cut and dry. I don't understand the "isn't that cute" attitude that many in the press have taken about this issue. Julian Assange means us harm. He means for us to lose our wars and for our soldiers to be killed. He means for us to be overpowered by our adversaries and to be conquered by them. This is the most effective way at his disposal to effect these ends. If he could do worse, he would. What part of that agenda should we be fine with?
Could you please show me where congress has voted on an act of war? As far as I know, congress has not voted on an Act of War since WW2.

Also please show me where exactly the Pentagon has said that one of our operatives has actually been harmed by what has been published so far? As far as I have seen not a single person has been confirmed to be harmed. It is all speculation that they "could" or "might" be harmed.

Statistically you have a higher chance of being harmed in a car wreck then any operative being harmed by what has been leaked.

Quote:
Originally Posted by KPLAFIN View Post
I would want the Chinese government to deal with their people, yes...and they do. You can't honestly sit there and think that wikileaks is innocent just because they "only posted what was given to them" that is the most asinine comment I've read on this site in a long time, I'm done in this thread. Wikileaks is putting information out there that COULD (yes COULD, not HAS, but COULD and that is good enough for me) put innocent AMERICAN lives at risk. I'm in the military, I'm going to Afghanistan soon, we have it hard enough without idiots doing **** to make it worse. They're traitors and should be dealt with as such. Firing squad or the gallows, I don't care, but deal with it one way or another already.
As Manning will be dealt with in a court of law if he is found guilty of leaking the papers.

Julian Assange can not be tried as a traitor because he is not a US citizen. I do think he is innocent. Freedom of the press means that they can print things that "could" cause harm. The Supreme Court has ruled that way and that is how it stands.
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Old 12-06-2010, 02:33 PM   #36
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You know what's funny?

The White House Plumbers, were a covert unit whose task was to stop the leaking of classified information to the news media.

Their first task was to find out who leaked the Pentagon Papers which noted the The Johnson administrations reasons for American persistence in the Vietnam war was:

* 70% - To avoid a humiliating U.S. defeat.
* 20% - To keep [South Vietnam] (and the adjacent) territory from Chinese hands.
* 10% - To permit the people [of South Vietnam] to enjoy a better, freer way of life.

The Plumber then went onto great things like breaking into the Watergate hotel...

The difference between the white house papers and this was: one person was concerned about what the Gov't was doing and felt his duty as a citizen to show the public the truth on the matter...the other was gay, didn't like being in an akward situation in the military and decided this was his way to get back at them.
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Old 12-06-2010, 02:37 PM   #37
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You know what's funny?

The White House Plumbers, were a covert unit whose task was to stop the leaking of classified information to the news media.

Their first task was to find out who leaked the Pentagon Papers which noted the The Johnson administrations reasons for American persistence in the Vietnam war was:

* 70% - To avoid a humiliating U.S. defeat.
* 20% - To keep [South Vietnam] (and the adjacent) territory from Chinese hands.
* 10% - To permit the people [of South Vietnam] to enjoy a better, freer way of life.

The Plumber then went onto great things like breaking into the Watergate hotel...
Yah for government cover-ups and trying to protect their own asses and convince people it is ok.
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Old 12-06-2010, 02:54 PM   #38
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First off there are the facts (which I pretty much have none so I am going to guess and hopefully have a win argument).

Listing those who have been physically affected or killed due to the leaks may not be the smartest thing, whos to say we will ever hear of 1 person let alone maybe 20, 30 or 100. Do we really need every informant and diplomat second guessing their efforts and or who they are talking with.

When some 3rd world country girl gets raped and killed and dragged through the streets cause her father is seen as a traitor, Julian Assange has the luxury of claiming he's just a journalist and his actions ultimately are NOT what killed anyone let alone some innocent girl.

Seeing that these leaks affect us, it is us that should be concerned. I dont care about iran, iraq, china, korea or anywhere else providing my super sized fries are hot and fresh and none of those countries are going to nuke us, the USA or Canada. I pay taxes to be on a winning team, not a losing team. If the Americans feels the need to spy, cheat and do things to preserve the way of life for American citizens I can for the most part live with that. Now I am not talking about invasions, nuking anyone etc though if I had to opt for my life vs theirs, nuking is an ok option. The point is, every country has issues and or secrets. It is one thing if an American has an issue with it and handles it within America, dishing American details to Assange who doesnt care about anyone in the USA (though he would argue he does and this is why he did it) or anywhere else.

The person who stole the intel should die. He is a traitor and should get the firing squad. I know in Canada we are pussies and wouldn't do anything. Hopefully you guys DO hang the person who leaked the documents by a rope from a tree, on a hill overshadowing the cities and villages as a reminder of what NOT to do (this is what I want to do to staff that leak intel ).

Assange. 'Yea, ok, sure, I dont sell drugs but you can use my house to crack up the teens. Hey, comeon, im not the drug dealer.' Wiki / Assange is aiding an abetting a US citizen in a terrorist attack against the USA. Conspiracy doubles your time here in Canada, not sure about the USA.

Assange fool is not a US citizen. Perfect, treat him as a hostile entity and /end him. The US and Canada should never negotiate with a hostage taker. In this instance he is holding the government ransom for his safety. Kill him, kill the person who leaks the key and so on. Lives are put at risk. Even if someone hasn't been killed, died or banned on MT doesn't mean the potential isn't there.

The wiki fool has not only endangered American lives, but other citizens as well. He has affected diplomacy in a majorly negative way that will likely burn a lot of bridges....
'We all know that our one buddy at the local meet up likely talks **** behind your back, it doesn't mean having a full on confrontation is going to change anything or make it better'.
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Old 12-06-2010, 02:58 PM   #39
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That why I'm pretty much indifferent.

On one hand I don't like the idea of putting troops/citizens/diplomacy in harm
but I also don't like the idea of them being deployed either (ie, I don't like stuff our Gov't does and think it SHOULD be more transparent)

But the reason I condone this act is because I also don't like that some foreigner who is hell bent on the destruction of the US facilitated the infiltration. The only reason Manning turned over the info is because he has daddy issues, not because he came across some data that was imperative that the public should see for itself.
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Old 12-06-2010, 03:05 PM   #40
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Kill Manning and his daddy issues!
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