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Old 12-08-2010, 03:29 PM   #101
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....we as a nation have far larger problems than Wikileaks.
I'd think that should be self-evident at this point ;p.
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Old 12-08-2010, 03:33 PM   #102
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I'd think that should be self-evident at this point ;p.
that all men are created equal?
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Old 12-08-2010, 03:35 PM   #103
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that all men are created equal?
Like a G6, yo.
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Old 12-08-2010, 03:36 PM   #104
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Old 12-08-2010, 03:40 PM   #105
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Old 12-08-2010, 03:51 PM   #106
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Old 12-08-2010, 03:58 PM   #107
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hmmmm. looks like fox and msnbc are preventing this millionaire from ******* you over harder.
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Old 12-08-2010, 04:04 PM   #108
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Ugh. Politicians just seem to want to hide everything, and something like Wikileaks or Fox News/MSNBC gets them up in arms.
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Old 12-08-2010, 04:08 PM   #109
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Ugh. Politicians just seem to want to hide everything, and something like Wikileaks or Fox News/MSNBC gets them up in arms.
You understand why, though, right?

They no longer work for us. We are their subjects, and when a private citizen dares to suggest that our government be held accountable for its actions, the bureaucrats are incensed.

We let this happen.
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Old 12-08-2010, 04:13 PM   #110
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Originally Posted by blaen99 View Post
I'd think that should be self-evident at this point ;p.
I can't tell whether the [sarcasm] tag has been applied in the above.

[serious]

If we have genuinely given up on the courts, then it's pretty much game over. Without a functioning judicial system, the congress will tend to drift into deadlock and the power of the executive becomes essentially unlimited, not to mention the fact that the everyday criminal justice system will cease to function.

we might just as well install a dictator and then convert to a hereditary monarchy.

[/serious]
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Old 12-08-2010, 04:16 PM   #111
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Originally Posted by Joe Perez View Post
I can't tell whether the [sarcasm] tag has been applied in the above.

[serious]

If we have genuinely given up on the courts, then it's pretty much game over. Without a functioning judicial system, the congress will tend to drift into deadlock and the power of the executive becomes essentially unlimited, not to mention the fact that the everyday criminal justice system will cease to function.

we might just as well install a dictator and then convert to a hereditary monarchy.

[/serious]
[serious]
But it's fairly obvious our current judicial system has serious problems. Look at the difference in "justice" of the poor vs. rich.

While perhaps it is not at the level you refer to yet, if you look at the courts of today vs. a few decades ago, there has been a definite decline
[/serious]
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Old 12-08-2010, 04:20 PM   #112
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If we have genuinely given up on the courts, then it's pretty much game over.
We lost the courts when judges began wielding their power to accomplish social goals and create de facto legislation, rather than consistently applying existing law.
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Old 12-08-2010, 04:23 PM   #113
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hey! We have the best government that money can buy.


Social Justice as it should be defined: Those who refuse to work go hungry
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Old 12-08-2010, 04:24 PM   #114
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(picture)
So the argument is that freedom of expression and freedom of the press is an all-or-nothing affair? That the press must be allowed to print anything, for any reason, without restriction?

Well, ****. Let's just go ahead and publish the patrol orders of all US submarines, the details of every troop movement, the codes and procedures required to arm and launch every missile / torpedo / UAV that we own, and the identity and location of every individual in the federal witness relocation program.



What about corporations? Can they have secrets? What happens when somebody sends a copy of the FPGA code from the product we're designing right now to all of the trade publications in my industry? Is it OK for them to publish it? How about VISA's database of everybody's credit card number, name, address, etc?



What about individuals? Would you mind if I shared with the rest of the forum your IP address, forum password, email password, bank account number, PIN, and SSN? Or a copy of the receipts from your last ten purchases from ******.com? Or the results of your HIV test?


Secrecy is not an inherently evil concept.
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Old 12-08-2010, 04:26 PM   #115
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Originally Posted by Joe Perez View Post
So the argument is that freedom of expression and freedom of the press is an all-or-nothing affair? That the press must be allowed to print anything, for any reason, without restriction?

Well, ****. Let's just go ahead and publish the patrol orders of all US submarines, the details of every troop movement, the codes and procedures required to arm and launch every missile / torpedo / UAV that we own, and the identity and location of every individual in the federal witness relocation program.



What about corporations? Can they have secrets? What happens when somebody sends a copy of the FPGA code from the product we're designing right now to all of the trade publications in my industry? Is it OK for them to publish it? How about VISA's database of everybody's credit card number, name, address, etc?



What about individuals? Would you mind if I shared with the rest of the forum your IP address, forum password, email password, bank account number, PIN, and SSN? Or a copy of the receipts from your last ten purchases from ******.com? Or the results of your HIV test?


Secrecy is not an inherently evil concept.
What you are referring to and what Wikileaks has actually released are two entirely different things, Joe.

I could say, as an example, that you support child molestors and think it should be a part of daily life of all Americans when you said "That guy might not be guilty of what he is accused of".

Wikileaks has far, far more damaging material. All they posted of what they had was just embarassing for certain US politicians - even according to the Secretary of State, nothing actually did damage to the US.
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Old 12-08-2010, 04:28 PM   #116
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HIV test results should be worn like a scarlet letter.
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Old 12-08-2010, 04:34 PM   #117
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hmmmm. looks like fox and msnbc are preventing this millionaire from ******* you over harder.
Same bastard wishes the Internet never existed and wants to censor it:
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Old 12-08-2010, 04:46 PM   #118
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The most important ways in which I think the Internet will affect the big issue is that it will make it more difficult for government to collect taxes.
Milton Friedman
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Old 12-08-2010, 05:29 PM   #119
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Originally Posted by mgeoffriau View Post
(...) when judges began wielding their power to (...) create de facto legislation,
Judges are specifically allowed to create de-facto legislation. It's called "stare decisis" and is one of the primary functions of the appellate courts.

Another way in which laws can be created without the input of the congress or a popular vote are rulings by regulatory bodies (the FCC, the FAA, CARB, etc).



Quote:
Originally Posted by blaen99 View Post
[serious]
While perhaps it is not at the level you refer to yet, if you look at the courts of today vs. a few decades ago, there has been a definite decline
[/serious]
I diagree. In fact, I disagree quite strongly.

Looking specifically at the US Supreme Court over the past 10-15 years, I see a definite trend towards limitation and/or reduction of federal powers in favor of states' rights (United States v. Lopez, United States v. Morrison), preservation of the spirit of the Fourth Amendment (Wilson v. Layne, Indianapolis v. Edmond, Kyllo v. United States), the First Amendment (Republican Party of Minnesota v. White, Ashcroft v. Free Speech Coalition) and on and on.

Obviously not every decision is one with which I agree, or even one which I feel is just. But from saying that "this particular decision was stupid" or "this justice is biased" is a far cry from the decline of the justice system as we know it.
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Old 12-08-2010, 05:41 PM   #120
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I diagree. In fact, I disagree quite strongly.

Looking specifically at the US Supreme Court over the past 10-15 years, I see a definite trend towards limitation and/or reduction of federal powers in favor of states' rights (United States v. Lopez, United States v. Morrison), preservation of the spirit of the Fourth Amendment (Wilson v. Layne, Indianapolis v. Edmond, Kyllo v. United States), the First Amendment (Republican Party of Minnesota v. White, Ashcroft v. Free Speech Coalition) and on and on.

Obviously not every decision is one with which I agree, or even one which I feel is just. But from saying that "this particular decision was stupid" or "this justice is biased" is a far cry from the decline of the justice system as we know it.
I'm surprised you didn't cite the recent 2nd amendment decision as well, as it also supports your argument.

However, that is not what I am irritated at. As an example, for campaign finance, in some bizzaro world - corporations are now people. Yeah, wonderful.

I am not referring to supreme court decisions for the most part - there's a few, like the above, that just make me go wtf. Rather, I am referring to lower court decisions.

As an example, I can easily do 100+ on 60mph roads if I want*. Even if I get ticketed, I know my attorney will have it down to speeding at 10+, or at MOST, 20+. People who can't afford an attorney will get reckless. You see this repeated throughout our judicial system - and it is ultimately what I also view as a plague on our political system. The sway of money is far too great in my eyes. Perhaps I'm wrong, I'll grant you that, but I really feel that moneyed interests have more influence in either than in the past several decades.

*: Again, if I want. My speedy hijinks are confined to track.
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