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Old 03-22-2010, 05:32 PM   #161
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Now you know how some of us feel to see our fearless leader on television E V E R Y day of the week looking like he's watching a tennis match talking about everything and nothing... Someone who can't even talk to a group of people without a ghostwriter and his teleprompter.

There, Liberals started to attack GWB's character, S.Palin's character, so he might as well be open game too.


Does he use a teleprompter talking dirty to Michelle in bed?
He does look like he's watching tennis doesn't he.
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Old 03-22-2010, 05:33 PM   #162
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So where's my hand-out?

Can I buy new hot-side parts off this reform?

I still want my tuition to be paid for by the government.......
call matthew lesko, he'll tell you how to make that happen.

your response is part of the problem.

one side says "we want healthcare reform!"

and the other side says "where's my handout?"

it's a pretty awesome discussion. very productive.
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Old 03-22-2010, 05:43 PM   #163
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Expect nothing, demand everything? lol

I don't seriously expect a hand-out, should of used my sarcasm emote :(
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Old 03-22-2010, 05:44 PM   #164
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Govt should not even be taking on a project this big when we are already in such massive debt.

I think its obvious that this isn't the choice of the American people, just more federal expansion.

Tis a sad day.
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Old 03-22-2010, 05:51 PM   #165
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Expect nothing, demand everything? lol

I don't seriously expect a hand-out, should of used my sarcasm emote :(

Where's my slice, I want more than equal rights, I want everything for free.
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Old 03-22-2010, 05:52 PM   #166
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Adding to my concern about the whole special interest ruling the roost regarding healthcare, look how research dollars are spent.


Again, my point, if we're truly going to a "fair" and "equitable" coverage then it is going to have to be data/numbers driven vs. special interest/emotion. Again, not necessarily against a universal healthcare system, but are we as a nation really ready for such a cold/rational system.
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Old 03-22-2010, 06:32 PM   #167
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i really want to respond guys, but I can't keep up. I have a job. and for now, it covers my healthcare.
As somebody who has personally paid out of pocket for 100% of his healthcare before I can't see much use of ANY of this.

In all seriousness, You're partly right about the problems. One group wants to change everything about the world because absolutely NOTHING is good enough because its not THEIR way. Another group likes things the way they are, while they're not perfect it works. The final group is who expects handouts, and think to save a buck they'll ditch what they PAY for thinking its a better idea to let the state supply their coverage. Those are the same people who are too lazy or stupid to actually get a job and attempt to contribute to society instead want to spend their welfare on drugs, cigarettes, booze, and 92 inch Rimmmmmzzzz.


True story.
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Old 03-22-2010, 07:48 PM   #168
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Adding to my concern about the whole special interest ruling the roost regarding healthcare, look how research dollars are spent.
That's not "how research dollars are spent." It's dollars spent ÷ deaths. You could also interpret that to mean that the huge budget for researching HIV/AIDS has resulted in fewer deaths, which would be a good thing (it also happens to be true). I do agree that HIV/AIDS is disproportionately funded and that is largely due to political reasons, but you can't bemoan the influence of special interests while quoting a pie chart created by a lobbying group.

If you want to see how NIH spends your money, look at the raw numbers here.

We spend ~2x as much on cancer research as we do on HIV/AIDS. And it's my contention that cardiovascular disease and diabetes don't need as much research money because we already know the prime risk factor for most people (being a fatass) and the cure (stop eating McD's and hit the gym, fatass). The more difficult scientific problems such as HIV & cancer require more research effort (dollars) to crack compared to something like Hepatitis B which has a known etiology and an effective vaccine.

Of course, research money ≠ health care spending. Dollars spent on cardiovascular disease and diabetes treatment are going to stay plenty high once Obamacare covers the poor folk who eat McD's 10 times a week, which they do because fast food gives them more calories per dollar than healthy stuff like fruit & vegetables. A lot of the uninsured poor people in this country have their poor health enabled by more government interventionist bullshit: corn subsidies. But I digress.
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Old 03-22-2010, 08:11 PM   #169
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Damn this thing blew up.

This is all bullshit. States want to sue over a bill, saying its unconstitutional, its going to bring down the country! MORE legal bullshit to tie up MORE money. Everyone's a hypocrite. I make no sense.
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Old 03-22-2010, 09:25 PM   #170
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That's not "how research dollars are spent."
While I agree that the particular chart is biased as is most data presented, the point remains the same. Research dollars are funded based on who has the most political influence, and not in terms of disease burden or mortality. It's the same way certain medical procedures/medications/etc... get covered and others do not.

I totally agree on the we're a nation of fatasses though. Pipe dream, but cutting obesity in half would do more good than this or probably any possible bill. Add removing tobacco and lots of docs would probably be out of a job...haha.

Again, unless there is some sort of an objective body (or at least as objective as you can get) who bases decisions on the latest available information/data to make the hard choices, things get messy quick because decisions of coverage will be determined by lawmakers and the courts and not doctors/statisticians/actuaries.

Basically, you pick your poison. If you choose universal access and want to control costs, something has got to give. I happen to really like the UK's NICE panel and the reasoning behind their decisions, but others call it a "death" panel. Probably once a week there is a scathing article about another treatment that the NICE panel has decided not to cover because it's not cost effective. Funny thing is, it happens here in the US too, just under different guises. Example, hearing loss is a common problem in the elderly and certainly causes accidents/injury as well as interferes with daily living, but medicare will not cover hearing aids despite agreeing that they would do great good. Why not? Because it would cost too damn much and they would become insolvent very quickly.

We want to live however we want (i.e. eating poorly/smoking/etc...) and then expect health care to solve our problems (with cardiac bypass/drugs/surgery) and it to be all paid out of some magical endless bucket of money because everyone deserves health care. Oh and if something goes wrong, it's someone's fault so we'll sue and deserve a huge settlement.

Not saying the status quo is good, but half the problem is with the american attitude/perception/entitlement to healthcare itself.
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Old 03-23-2010, 02:22 AM   #171
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Anyone else notice all the Big Pharm and Big Insurance stocks going way up today? Investors know what's up....


....but I'm sure Obama is going to "take on" Big Health just like he said he would.
Change is coming. Change we can beleive in!



****. I believe I will have a drink.
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Old 03-23-2010, 02:32 AM   #172
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10 things to expect from Government Healthcare:

1. A Massively Engorged Government, to the tune of $2.5 trillion in new entitlement spending. According to the Congressional Budget Office (CBO), new entitlement spending in the plan would cost $216 billion by 2019, then increase by 8 percent every year thereafter.
2. A Cornhusker Kickback for All. No, special deals aren’t removed from Obamacare this time around. Instead, the House bill extends new federal funding for Medicaid to all states. Incidentally, you’re paying for it.
3. A Freight train of taxes, slamming the American people in 2018. You’ve heard of the “Cadillac” tax on high-cost insurance plans? It will be pushed back to 2018, and given the way “high-cost” plans will be defined, a large segment of the middle class would get hit with the tax over time.
4. Beware the shape-shifting tax monster. New taxes will take many forms, including taxes on prescription drugs, medical devices (like wheel chairs), and health insurance.
5. Unconstitutional mandates, courtesy of Congress. Don’t want to buy health insurance? Congress will penalize you if you don’t, regardless of income.
6. Lock your back door. Higher health care costs will be sneaking in. The plan gives subsidies to low-to-moderate wage families, but the subsidies will increase at a lower rate than the rate at which premiums increase. In other words, those families will pay more every year.
7. Lights out for small businesses? Companies that hire certain low-income Americans will have to pay $3,000 per employee, per year, even if the company offers insurance.Oh, and if a company employs 50 or more workers, they’ll face higher tax penalties to the tune of $2,000 per full-time employee.
8. Abortions. You will pay for them, like it or not. The House bill includes major funding for community health centers with no restrictions on federal taxpayer funding of abortions.
9. Want to play the stock market? Maybe not, after you hear this. The House bill slaps a 3.8% tax on investment income.
10. It’s not a federal system, after all. States will have less power. They’ll no longer have authority to regulate health care premiums. Instead, the federal government will take on the job. States and local governments won’t be able to control their own employee health plans; they’ll have to abide by new federal regulations.
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Old 03-23-2010, 02:52 AM   #173
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Make it a stiff drink.
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Old 03-23-2010, 08:45 AM   #174
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Originally Posted by elesjuan View Post
Now you know how some of us feel to see our fearless leader on television E V E R Y day of the week looking like he's watching a tennis match talking about everything and nothing... Someone who can't even talk to a group of people without a ghostwriter and his teleprompter.

There, Liberals started to attack GWB's character, S.Palin's character, so he might as well be open game too.


Does he use a teleprompter talking dirty to Michelle in bed?
I thought this was funny. Busting on Obama for using a teleprompter. Maybe if GW could read a teleprompter he wouldn't have come up with these gems all on his own:

10) "Families is where our nation finds hope, where wings take dream." —LaCrosse, Wis., Oct. 18, 2000

9) "I know how hard it is for you to put food on your family." —Greater Nashua, N.H., Jan. 27, 2000

8) "I hear there's rumors on the Internets that we're going to have a draft." —second presidential debate, St. Louis, Mo., Oct. 8, 2004

7) "I know the human being and fish can coexist peacefully." —Saginaw, Mich., Sept. 29, 2000

6) "You work three jobs? … Uniquely American, isn't it? I mean, that is fantastic that you're doing that." —to a divorced mother of three, Omaha, Nebraska, Feb. 4, 2005

5) "Too many good docs are getting out of the business. Too many OB-GYNs aren't able to practice their love with women all across this country." —Poplar Bluff, Mo., Sept. 6, 2004

4) "They misunderestimated me." —Bentonville, Ark., Nov. 6, 2000

3) "Rarely is the questioned asked: Is our children learning?" —Florence, S.C., Jan. 11, 2000

2) "Our enemies are innovative and resourceful, and so are we. They never stop thinking about new ways to harm our country and our people, and neither do we." —Washington, D.C., Aug. 5, 2004

1) "There's an old saying in Tennessee — I know it's in Texas, probably in Tennessee — that says, fool me once, shame on — shame on you. Fool me — you can't get fooled again." —Nashville, Tenn., Sept. 17, 2002


Sara Palin's teleprompter:




I lean quite heavily toward libertarian now. Bush got my vote for his first term. He had 8 years to **** up the country. I guess Obama gets 4 years to **** it up too.

Frank
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Old 03-23-2010, 09:48 AM   #175
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Make it a stiff drink.
You said stiff...
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Old 03-23-2010, 09:54 AM   #176
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Originally Posted by Sparetire View Post
Make it a stiff drink.
You're funny dude.

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Originally Posted by fmowry View Post
I thought this was funny. Busting on Obama for using a teleprompter. Maybe if GW could read a teleprompter he wouldn't have come up with these gems all on his own:

gaffes

Frank
You do realize he's dyslexic right?

My little cousin is dyslexic, and I spent a good amount of time helping him learn to read. It's not an easy disability to overcome.

He managed to get pretty far in life considering...and even if you claim it was his daddy's influence, he served well as a Governor here before meeting the national spotlight. In fact, us Texans can thank him for the right to obtain a CCL.
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Old 03-23-2010, 09:58 AM   #177
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I lean quite heavily toward libertarian now. Bush got my vote for his first term. He had 8 years to **** up the country. I guess Obama gets 4 years to **** it up too.

Frank
Yeah, maybe so, but we all know that GWB's IQ is 10 while Obama is 11tybillion... Maybe with any luck it won't last another 3 years.
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Old 03-23-2010, 09:58 AM   #178
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One day things will change, and it will be a chaotic day. We are in for a rude awakening someday and I just hope it's our own doing and not a foreign power.
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Old 03-23-2010, 10:10 AM   #179
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Bush > Obama. I'll take Bush back any day! At least he made me laugh. I honestly don't think he did all that bad given all the **** that was going on in his last term.
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Old 03-23-2010, 11:11 AM   #180
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Bush > Obama.
this one's for you. for those quiet moments alone:

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