1.6L 2560r record attempt - Page 9 - Miata Turbo Forum - Boost cars, acquire cats.

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Old 02-13-2013, 09:24 AM   #161
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Someone decided they would be clever I know.

Dann
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Old 02-13-2013, 12:35 PM   #162
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guys guys guys
it's clear, you need a $5000 2L stroker to make >300whp
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Old 02-13-2013, 12:51 PM   #163
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guys guys guys
it's clear, you need a $5000 2L stroker to make >300whp
Don't forget to bring your e85!
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Old 02-13-2013, 11:44 PM   #164
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Dann,
I like your welds

Time for some lovin' on my car. Turbo should arrive early next week.

Dad has offered to loan me his spare car and he doesnt even know about the turbo conversion! LOL.

Mart
aw11 or bust
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Old 02-14-2013, 12:35 AM   #165
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Still on for the measure up Saturday mart?

Dann
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Old 02-14-2013, 05:47 PM   #166
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Yep, wife has given the go ahead, ill ring you in the morning.
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Old 02-14-2013, 06:10 PM   #167
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No, because I have yet to see anything that conclusively shows otherwise. The only threads I've seen on various forums shows at best slight spool improvement over a 2560, and then they break. I don't doubt the EFR will make way more horsepower, it's the spool that I'm questioning.

Jimj
So what you're saying is a gt2560 on a log manifold at 20psi will make the same power as a EFR at 20psi on a tubular twin scroll manifold and the only difference will be in spool speed?
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Old 02-14-2013, 06:13 PM   #168
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So what you're saying is a gt2560 on a log manifold at 20psi will make the same power as a EFR at 20psi on a tubular twin scroll manifold and the only difference will be in spool speed?
No, he's saying exactly the opposite: the spool will be similar, but the HP will be different.

Edit to add: Which is why the EFR is magic. It spools like a 2560 but makes power like a 3071.
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Old 02-15-2013, 12:13 AM   #169
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No, he's saying exactly the opposite: the spool will be similar, but the HP will be different.

Edit to add: Which is why the EFR is magic. It spools like a 2560 but makes power like a 3071.
the EFR is a good option if you're running a built motor. On stock internals it seems to me that you're spending substantially more for extra top end power you can't use. From what I've seen you aren't gaining much if anything on the bottom end. Also don't forget that when comparing a GT2560R to an EFR6258, the EFR, if you use it to its full potential, could mean replacing your tranny and diff unless you already have a 6 speed and torsen. The reason I am using the GT2560, and wouldn't consider changing, is that it maxes out safely within the limits of my drive train. I would be interested to see as close to an apples/apples comparison of as possible of a GT2860RS to the EFR6258 I think that would be a more meaningful comparison.

Just to be clear, in never said I had anything against the EFR, they are clearly a great turbo. But that doesn't mean they're for everyone or every build.

Jimj
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Old 02-15-2013, 12:17 AM   #170
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The difference between the GT2860RS and the EFR6258 is the EFR spools ~700RPM better.
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Old 02-15-2013, 12:18 AM   #171
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Originally Posted by jimj64 View Post
the EFR is a good option if you're running a built motor. On stock internals it seems to me that you're spending substantially more for extra top end power you can't use. From what I've seen you aren't gaining much if anything on the bottom end. Also don't forget that when comparing a GT2560R to an EFR6258, the EFR, if you use it to its full potential, could mean replacing your tranny and diff unless you already have a 6 speed and torsen. The reason I am using the GT2560, and wouldn't consider changing, is that it maxes out safely within the limits of my drive train. I would be interested to see as close to an apples/apples comparison of as possible of a GT2860RS to the EFR6258 I think that would be a more meaningful comparison.

Just to be clear, in never said I had anything against the EFR, they are clearly a great turbo. But that doesn't mean they're for everyone or every build.

Jimj
I figured out why you irritate me: you jump into conversations where everyone is on the same page and well past basics, and start talking about 2+2.

This car is built. Anyone running an EFR is built.

Yes - running a much less potent turbo on a non-built car is probably a good idea if you don't want to blow up said car and if your goals are low power. For this specific reason people run the 2560 vs say a 3071 or 3582.

I mean c'mon, I'm really not TRYING to be mean to you here. You're just asking for it
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Old 02-15-2013, 12:19 AM   #172
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i will admit that it would super-easy to blow up a stock motor with an efr. too much TORQZZZ
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Old 02-15-2013, 12:19 AM   #173
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Originally Posted by triple88a View Post
So what you're saying is a gt2560 on a log manifold at 20psi will make the same power as a EFR at 20psi on a tubular twin scroll manifold and the only difference will be in spool speed?
Edited: I'd explain how this isn't even close to what I meant but 18psi seems to think its stupid to respond to peoples questions in polite thought out manner...
Jimj

Last edited by jimj64; 02-15-2013 at 01:13 AM.
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Old 02-15-2013, 12:23 AM   #174
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Originally Posted by jimj64 View Post
I didn't mean anything close to that, why would anyone compare a 2560 on a log to an EFR on a tubular twin scroll? Dann is using both turbos on the same manifold. What I mean is that on the same setup there will be very little difference in spool but the EFR will certainly make more top end

Jimj
so you're saying the same thing everyone has ever said, ever about the efr?

nice. congrats
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Old 02-15-2013, 12:26 AM   #175
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Originally Posted by 18psi View Post
I figured out why you irritate me: you jump into conversations where everyone is on the same page and well past basics, and start talking about 2+2.

This car is built. Anyone running an EFR is built.

Yes - running a much less potent turbo on a non-built car is probably a good idea if you don't want to blow up said car and if your goals are low power. For this specific reason people run the 2560 vs say a 3071 or 3582.

I mean c'mon, I'm really not TRYING to be mean to you here. You're just asking for it
You know what 18psi, you need to grow up a little, I was responding to a specific post where a question was asked about something i said and being as clear as possible in order to avoid some jerk going off because I wasn't clear.

Jimj
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Old 02-15-2013, 12:34 AM   #176
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Jim you also need to keep in mind that along with that 700rpm advantage in boost threshold, there is torque (which equals HP).

The EFR will always be 700rpm ahead of the garrett meaning that you make more torque across the entire low and mid range.

If that isnt a HUGE advantage nothing is.

Dann
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Old 02-15-2013, 12:35 AM   #177
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Also Im putting an EFR on this setup in the near future and today I start work on putting an EFR on an MSM, which currently has a stock bottom end.

The turbo Im putting on it has a 12psi FORGE wastegate actuator.

Wonder if it will break the bottom end with that actuator..?

Dann
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Old 02-15-2013, 12:47 AM   #178
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Originally Posted by 18psi View Post
I figured out why you irritate me: you jump into conversations where everyone is on the same page and well past basics, and start talking about 2+2.

This car is built. Anyone running an EFR is built.

Yes - running a much less potent turbo on a non-built car is probably a good idea if you don't want to blow up said car and if your goals are low power. For this specific reason people run the 2560 vs say a 3071 or 3582.

I mean c'mon, I'm really not TRYING to be mean to you here. You're just asking for it
Sure you're trying to be mean, it wasn't me that started comparing the EFR to the 2560, I'm saying it's a silly comparison. All the spool of 2560 with the power of a 3071.... you keep using that comparison to bash Garrett turbos, why not try comparing th EFR to a more similar Garrett?

You know what 18psi, you need to grow up a little, I was responding to a specific post where a question was asked about something i said and being as clear as possible in order to avoid some jerk going off because I wasn't clear.

Jimj
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Old 02-15-2013, 12:53 AM   #179
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Originally Posted by jimj64 View Post
Sure you're trying to be mean, it wasn't me that started comparing the EFR to the 2560, I'm saying it's a silly comparison. All the spool of 2560 with the power of a 3071.... you keep using that comparison to bash Garrett turbos, why not try comparing th EFR to a more similar Garrett?

You know what 18psi, you need to grow up a little, I was responding to a specific post where a question was asked about something i said and being as clear as possible in order to avoid some jerk going off because I wasn't clear.

Jimj
Ok, point out a garrett that has the boost threshold of a 2560, the transient response of near instant, and makes the power of the 3071 and we'll gladly compare to it.
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Old 02-15-2013, 01:02 AM   #180
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Originally Posted by nitrodann View Post
Also Im putting an EFR on this setup in the near future and today I start work on putting an EFR on an MSM, which currently has a stock bottom end.

The turbo Im putting on it has a 12psi FORGE wastegate actuator.

Wonder if it will break the bottom end with that actuator..?

Dann
Dann, I'm not sure if your serious or not....you have a built motor, you're not going to break it at twice that psi. At 12 psi I'm sure the MSM will be fine but you're not using the EFR to it's potential and it's a considerably more expensive turbo, why not save the money and use a 2560? One thing I think is an advantage is a simpler downpipe connection on the EFR, but again is it worth the money?

I'm not convinced you're going to see a 700 rpm advantage in spool. I know some have seen that but they haven't really been apples to apples comparisons. That's why I'm curious to see you're results, same motor, same manifold. I know this is going to go over like a lead balloon, but when FM tested the two turbos on very similar setups the EFR showed virtually no advantage in spool.

Jimj
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