4th Gear Pull, flat footed it at about 2K rpms but I'm in vac until roughly 3400 so that's where the data starts here. |
Turbo spins freely and doesn't make any noise so it's not bound. IC routing is "down and around", nothing terribly convoluted. BLT checked out ok. And while my timing is pretty conservative at this point, I don't think I'm going to get 1500rpm out of it. I've got my knock sensor mounted pretty low on the block, but once I move it up to the top of the block I'll get a little more aggressive with timing and see what comes from it. I'd definitely like the powerband to shift down about 2K rpm, though. May go to a smaller (T25/28) turbo if I can't get this one to do what I want.
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Originally Posted by matthewdesigns
(Post 893983)
Turbo spins freely and doesn't make any noise so it's not bound. IC routing is "down and around", nothing terribly convoluted. BLT checked out ok. And while my timing is pretty conservative at this point, I don't think I'm going to get 1500rpm out of it. I've got my knock sensor mounted pretty low on the block, but once I move it up to the top of the block I'll get a little more aggressive with timing and see what comes from it. I'd definitely like the powerband to shift down about 2K rpm, though. May go to a smaller (T25/28) turbo if I can't get this one to do what I want.
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...aaaaannnnd yeah. BLT twice in the last month didn't turn up anything larger than throttle body shaft seals. BUT, for sh!ts and giggles I checked out the wastegate at lunch today. Loose as ----. Adjusted it about an hour ago and now I need to go out and pretty much redo my entire tune from 3Krpm to redline :facepalm:
At least I found the issue (or part of it). Will repost here when I've got that shizz retuned. |
https://www.miataturbo.net/picture.p...pictureid=2503
Engine: '90 1.6L w/ 175k miles. 155-160's compression corrected for altitude(on a cheapo gauge), wet test was within a few psi on each cylinder, burns a little oil on decel (valves?) That's what I know about her. Turbo: Mitsubishi TD04-15G (Greddy Kit) Manifold: Stock Greddy Cast Downpipe Size/Style: "Turbotony" 2.5" downpipe Exhaust Size: 2.5 inch "topspeed" exhaust, (greddy ripoff of some kind) Intercooler Core Size: 27x7x3 (or close) Intake Manifold: stock Headwork: Stock ( possibly leaky? ) valves. Engine Management: MSPNP9093 - stock firmware, etc Other Spoolin' Helpers/Hurters: turboxs(bleeder valve) MBC, exhaust leaks fixed (according to soapy water test with a clogged exhaust for extra backpressure), KN cone filter. Altitude is at 7000ft, for reference barometric pressure is at 80kpa so anything above that is positive pressure. 4th gear pull: 1900rpm : 82 kpa (0.3psi) 2200rpm : 87 kpa (1.0psi) 2500rpm : 90 kpa (1.4psi) 3000rpm : 96 kpa (2.3psi) 3250rpm : 103kpa (3.3psi) 3500rpm : 107 kpa (3.9psi) 3750rpm : 124kpa (6.3psi) 4000rpm : 138kpa (8.4psi) 4284rpm : 149kpa (10psi) (peak, limited by mbc from here on) Funny how 10psi only gives me 149kpa, silly altitude. What do you guys think, should my spoolup rate be this effected by altitude? I've been trying to research spool loss vs altitude and have found it definitely has a pronounced effect, but exactly how much of an effect it should be having i don't exactly know. I guess the best way would be to do a datalog at sea level... sea level is faaaaar away. EDIT: Since making this log I noticed my noisy MAP signal. I noticed that because of the noisy map signal my timing is a little erratic. I'm going to work on fixing this soon - Where should I relocate this vac line? I believe it's tee'd off of my FPR location now. Or is this noise a electrical issue? My RPM's etc were noisy when i first went MS but i fixed that by adding an extra ground. |
That is better than I thought you'd show based on what you've been saying. Still better than mine by 2-300rpm since I addressed my wastegate problem.
Do you have a way to smooth the MAP signal? I was having an issue with mine until last month, then found I was able to smooth the input and all is well. Before this my IDCs were all over the place...graph looked like a sawblade and it was tough to get a solid response. |
Yeah, it's not really horrible I'd say. However compared to some greddy kits I'm a good 500-800 rpms late for full boost.
You know, I'm not sure if there is a way to smooth the input via megasquirt, I'm going to look into this today and figure out what I need to do. I feel like the sawblade effect might be killing spool/power somewhat. In the log i can see my timing advance and retard back and forth all the way through a pull. I can't feel it in the car though, it feels like a good hard pull to redline. So this will be the next thing i work on. Do you have an updated log since you tightened your wastegate? I'm curious to see that. |
6 Attachment(s)
try running a 1/4" weedeater fuel filter inline with your map. it smoothed mine out quite a bit.
full spool of 194 kpa by 3700 RPM i 4th gear started pull @ ~2200 Engine: '95 escort GT 1.8L BP w/ 160kish miles. Turbo: Mitsubishi TD05- big 16G Manifold: home made 4 into 1 Wastegate: Tial 38mm mvs .9 bar spring water cooled. attached through the separated DP flange. IWG puck and arm removed. expanded IWG opening. Boost control: wastegate spring Downpipe Size/Style: home made 2.5" downpipe Exhaust Size: 2.5 inch exhaust, hollowed cat, 2 cherry bombs for noise reduction Intercooler Core Size: 19x7.25x3.5. 3" in and out Intake Manifold: mazda 323 GTR gasket matched Headwork: gasket matched intake and exhaust ports Engine Management: MS 1v3.0 Other stuff: 3" charge pipe from turbo to i/c and from i/c to t/b. necks down to 2.5" at t/b. turbo XS RFL bov. |
Originally Posted by Fireindc
(Post 894759)
Do you have an updated log since you tightened your wastegate? I'm curious to see that.
No 4th gear pull yet, just some 3rd's from a couple tuning runs. Still need to retune and get my AFRs properly back in line before I repost. But the 3rd gear pulls look pretty much identical to my previous ones, just that everything is shifted to the left about 1K rpms. Way more responsive now...feels much better. Fastiva, thanks for posting all that info. And great tip on the fuel filter...that's awesome. |
only if they run maf sensor, otherwise no
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I have done some reading about the whole noisy MAP signal thing, look like either a restrictor in line, or a "buffer" such as a fuel filter inline should help. I'm already running the line from one of the better locations (teed off the fuel rail FPR), so I' m going to try some other solutions this week. Will post up my results. Thanks!
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Originally Posted by muoto
(Post 890613)
Engine: '99 1.8L 9.5:1 supertechs +1mm
Turbo: GT2560R Manifold: ARTech™ Ramhorn Top Mount manifold Downpipe Size/Style: 3.5" homemade Exhaust Size: 3.5" homemade. no cat Exhaust Components: Magnaflow 5x11x22 muffler Intercooler Core Size: 550mm x 225mm x 64mm Intake Manifold: stock Headwork: none Engine Management: Adaptronic E420c Other Spoolin' Helpers/Hurters: EBC FOURTH GEAR PULL: RPM Boost (psi) 2576 3.33 2605 4.49 2701 6.67 2839 10.15 2926 11.89 3057 12.91 3176 15.09 fifth gear pull: 1879 2.75 2022 3.48 2122 4.20 2276 5.24 2390 6.82 2456 6.96 2564 7.98 2662 9.72 2776 11.46 (wastegate opens) 2866 12.64 2996 15.38 (boost limit) |
1 Attachment(s)
Engine: 2001 w/VVT, fresh rebuild with forged everything. Standard size SS valves, OEM springs, OEM cams.
Turbo: Garrett GT3076 Manifold: Header manifold Downpipe Size/Style: 75mm Exhaust Size: 80mm, no cat, ebay "carbon" muffler Intercooler Core Size: I don't remember, it was rated for 600++ HP. Intake Manifold: stock 99-00 Headwork: None. Engine Management: Reverant Enhanced MS2, electronic boost control Other Spoolin' Helpers/Hurters: VVT controlled, water injection per cylinder, 4th gear pull Tuned by yours truly. Went WOT at 3245 RPM. https://www.miataturbo.net/attachmen...ine=1348774726 3307 rpm - 121.3kPa 3405 rpm - 145.8kPa 3508 rpm - 167.3kPa 3609 rpm - 193.9kPa 3708 rpm - 220.8kPa 3799 rpm - 243.7kPa 3894 rpm - 265.5kPa 3970 rpm - 281.7kPa 3998 rpm - 298.2kPa So full boost (29psi) just before 4000rpm. :party: |
Engine: 1.9L
Turbo: Borg Warner EFR 6758 Manifold: Wittyworks shorty tubular Downpipe Size/Style: 3" Exhaust Size: 3" Exhaust Components: Magnaflow 11x5x22 "big one" Intercooler Core Size: Precision 600HP Intake Manifold: Stock Headwork: Junkyard 99 head Engine Management: MS3 + MS3X Other Spoolin' Helpers/Hurters: EBC, LS2 truck coils Trans & Rear End Ratio: 6-speed, 3.9 diff Fifth gear pull (6speed, so 1:1) RPM PSI KPA 2062 1.9 113 2083 2.0 114 2093 2.1 114.4 2098 2.2 115.1 2115 2.3 116.2 2131 2.5 117 2148 2.6 117.8 2157 2.7 118.6 2178 2.8 119.3 2192 2.9 120.3 2206 3.0 120.7 2228 3.2 121.9 2244 3.4 123.2 2261 3.5 123.9 2278 3.6 124.9 2280 3.7 125.7 2310 3.9 126.8 2316 4.0 127.6 2347 4.1 128.6 2338 4.2 129.3 2376 4.4 130.4 2381 4.5 131.3 2405 4.7 132.7 2417 4.9 133.6 2429 5.1 135 2455 5.3 136.6 2474 5.5 138.1 2484 5.7 139.6 2513 5.9 140.8 2518 6.1 142.2 2549 6.3 143.3 2554 6.6 145.6 2593 6.9 147.5 2590 7.0 148.5 2624 7.3 150.5 2633 7.5 151.9 2659 7.9 154.2 2677 8.3 157.4 2698 8.6 159.4 2724 9.0 162.3 2756 9.4 164.5 2756 9.7 167.1 2785 10.1 169.6 2813 10.4 171.6 2827 10.8 174.8 2864 11.2 177 2868 11.6 180.1 2914 12.0 182.8 2905 12.3 185.1 2959 12.9 188.6 2967 13.3 191.5 3007 13.9 195.8 3008 14.5 200.3 3085 15.4 206.5 3131 16.1 210.8 3182 17.8 222.7 3217 18.5 227.7 3249 19.7 235.8 3285 20.5 241.3 3338 21.5 248.2 3347 22.6 255.5 3404 23.5 262.1 3425 24.2 266.8 3463 25.0 272.3 3501 25.5 276 http://s95367906.onlinehome.us/photo...0rpm.png???Aaa "sensor01" is turbine speed sensor. |
Originally Posted by soviet
(Post 938156)
"sensor01" is turbine speed sensor.
Also I would have expected the turbine speed to increase with higher engine RPM at the same boost. More air going into the engine should translate to higher turbine RPMs. That does not seem to be the case (very much anyway). Strange.... |
Originally Posted by Reverant
(Post 932610)
3307 rpm - 121.3kPa
3405 rpm - 145.8kPa 3508 rpm - 167.3kPa 3609 rpm - 193.9kPa 3708 rpm - 220.8kPa 3799 rpm - 243.7kPa 3894 rpm - 265.5kPa 3970 rpm - 281.7kPa 3998 rpm - 298.2kPa So full boost (29psi) just before 4000rpm. :party: I'd love to see the pull started @ 2k though. |
Engine: '00 1.8l
Turbo: BEGI 2854 churbo Manifold: BEGi Cast "Directed Pulse" Downpipe Size/Style: begi separated gasses, 2,75" Exhaust Size: 2.5" Exhaust Components: roadster sport 3 midpipe and rear. Intercooler Core Size: 13x11x3" Intake Manifold: Stock Headwork: stock Engine Management: EMB Other Spoolin' Helpers/Hurters: MBC, very conservative timing. Trans & Rear End Ratio: 5-speed, 4.1 LSD Rear tire size: 195/50/15 FOURTH GEAR PULL: RPM Boost(psi) 2000 2.6 2100 3.2 2400 4.8 2500 6.0 2600 6.8 2700 8.1 2800 8.7 2900 8.7 3000 8.7 3100 8.7 3200 9.4 3300 9.5 3400 9.5 3500 9.5 3600 9.5 3700 9.7 4000 10.1 4500 10.8 4800 11.9 boost limit. Seems my wastegate/mbc is up to some funkyness. |
Engine: '93 1.6l
Turbo: BEGI 2560 Manifold: BEGi Cast log Downpipe Size/Style: begi separated gasses, 2,75" Exhaust Size: 2.5" with cat Intercooler Core Size: BEGi size 2 Intake Manifold: Stock Headwork: none Engine Management: MSPNP 1 Rear tire size: 205/45R16 RPM: MAP: 2500 118 2600 124 2700 127 2800 131 2900 135 3000 139 3100 144 3200 148 3300 151 3400 156 3500 163 3600 164 3700 168 3800 172 3900 179 4000 180 <- 12psi / boost limit |
Originally Posted by Sentic
(Post 939900)
Seems my wastegate/mbc is up to some funkyness.
that doesn't look good AT ALL |
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Originally Posted by stefanst
(Post 939776)
Interesting. Do you know, what your readings relate to in terms of actual RPMs?
Also I would have expected the turbine speed to increase with higher engine RPM at the same boost. More air going into the engine should translate to higher turbine RPMs. That does not seem to be the case (very much anyway). Strange.... Your expectation of RPM rise is wrong. Also the RPM "window" is quite narrow. At 80k rpm it makes like 6psi but at 130k it's 26psi. https://www.miataturbo.net/attachmen...ine=1350487178 See how difference between 2.4 and 3.2 pressure ratio is only 20k rpm? That's like 12psi worth of difference.
Originally Posted by Sentic
(Post 939900)
Seems my wastegate/mbc is up to some funkyness.
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