Glad you were able to do this. I was hoping that I could reprogram the megasquirt to send the VVT signal over that wire, but if not then I can always just hack and splice on the ecu side as well. Still easier than running a new wire, and looks cleaner.

Is there anything similar I can use for the knock sensor? Maybe the unused factory O2 plug? Or one of the EGR plugs? Will investigate...

With the AEM I just moved the pin from one spot in the ECU plug to another (I think they are in the same plug). Just buy a tool to remove the pins and its makes life much easier.

Err... I was working the front end of the motor today, the 1.6L crank pully does not have the timing tabs for the crank angle sensor, so I am back to using the pully it came with and will need to source an alternator.

How exactly did you get this to work?

I ripped apart the Fuel rail harness the motor came with since it came with both sides of the 8 pin connector. Patched in my two coolant temperature sensors into this connector (1 2 pin sensor and 1 1 pin sensor in place of the 2004 3 pin sensor) with the intention of redoing the mating side. I figured I might as well leave the other 5 pins alone so that I can do sequential fuel injection and have a handy disconnect for removing the motor. However
I forgot to request that my MSLabs MS3 basic to have sequential fueling outputs. DOH. I guess I will just patch the chassis side of the cable to split out the 1/4 and the 2/3 signals to each individual injector, and run the extra wires in the bundle so that if I ever decide that I need it, I will just need to remove the jumper in the harness and do a bit of work on the ECU.

Also after seeing how the spark plug condensor and ground were run, I disliked it immensely. The condenser and ground are hooked up by running out the spark plug harness connector, back into a 4 pin connector at the front of the motor that is bundled with the FI harness and mounted at the rear of the motor. The condensor is supposed to help with voltage drop, why would you hang it off an unnecessarily long length of cable?!? Tore this apart and patched the condensor connector and the grounds directly into the injector harness, eliminating the 4 pin connector at the front of the motor, so now all that is up there is the 8 pin Fuel injector connector and the 2 pin knock sensor connector on the left and the Crank angle sensor connector on the right.

The timing wheel is just a disc, it can be removed and bolted in behind the 1.6 wheel, I'm assuming. It comes off after the 4 m6 bolts are removed.

All MS3s have sequential injection as far as I know, but if you order it in batch, Rev will jumper them together and send a batched base map. A few jumper changes and wiring changes, and you'll be set for sequential.

Sweet, I feel like a dumbass now, but at least I am not a dumbass who has to buy an alternator.

Well. I discovered something else. 1.6 alternator, or 1.8, you will need the alternator bracket from a 1994 or later. The 1.6L bracket wont fit, interferes with the mount point for the 1994+ bracket on the water pump...

Angle grinder bro. Or use a 90-93 water pump.

Knock sensor question. One wire into the appropriate ECU pigtail, where's the other go? Analog sensor ground? Does polarity matter?

The white wire is signal for the knock sensor. The other is just a shield, connect it to a chassis ground.

Will any old chassis ground work (the one at the front of the engine perhaps) or should I wire it back to the "analog sensor ground" on the megasquirt?

As its a shield and not a ground reference, any chassis ground will work.

Moving along. For the purpose of documentation, the Reverent MSLabs MS3 basic does support sequential injectors out of the box, however it will not be wired to the DB-37 unless requested, which I neglected to do. If one were to desire to hook them up the following changes would need to be made:

I am already buying pins and tools to service the ECU connector because one of the wires was messed up when I removed the ECU (details here: https://www.miataturbo.net/meet-gree...-rescue-79959/) so I will probably be hooking this up.

Next up:

Looking for an answer on this from Reverant for using one of his MS3 Basic PNPs for a 90-93. I suspect that I would have to purchase a middle connector for the ECU and add wires to it as if it was for a 1994-1997. On the middle connector pin "I" would be the 5V reference, On "F" would be the signal, and pin "O" would serve as ground.

Nope. Much easier Than that per the man himself. For MS labs MS3 Basic 90-93 PNP:

Make sure the pull the fuse as specified in the directions.

I ordered the 99-00 fuel rail from a scrappy expecting it to only have a fuel damper on the return end. But it came with a fuel pressure valve and return, and doesn't use fittings for the fuel pipes (it's clamp and hose). Otherwise it looks exactly like the 99-00.

It mated to the VVT engine, only needed to slightly bend the inlet pipe for it to clear the timing belt cover. I'm guessing it will work but I'm curious... If this is not an 99-00 rail, which one is it?

So... What have I been sent, do you guys have an idea?

Getting pics as soon as I get out from work.

Sounds like an 94-97, but pics will confirm.

Don't really know, but it mounts perfectly to the engine and the FPR return line does not interfere with the head. It's the pipe on the rail itself that does, which doesn't really match what's in the first post:


I'll get pics in a couple hours.

Okay, here are the photos of that rail I got. I took a (bad) picture of it in place without the top part of the manifold, and another one on my desk:

https://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/u/...422_210142.jpg

https://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/u/...422_210921.jpg

You can see the pipe that goes around the rail is slightly bent to clear the head. Otherwise the rail is as it was, still with the fuel pipes on and all...

This is a picture of how it looked on my install. Looks like you may not have the proper rail.

http://www.z-car.com/miata/IMG_1001.jpg
http://www.z-car.com/miata/IMG_1002.jpg
http://www.z-car.com/miata/IMG_1003.jpg

Nope that's right. You usually have to trim the top of the manifold to stop from squishing that fuel line

Apart from the pipe that I had to slightly bend, the manifold clears the fuel rail just fine. Both pipes come out on below the throttle body. This is using the flat top manifold of course, I'm unsure about the VICS or VTCS ones...

Now, the rail looks just like gjsmith66's, except for the connector on the inlet pipe and the fact that it came with an FPR. Does it belong to a 94-97 then?

No, 94-97 has the regulator on the top and it wont really bolt correctly to the NB head without slotting the mounting holes. maybe its a jdm nb fuel rail.

The one I posted is a 99-00 that I added FPR from a 1.6. I did have to trim down the intake manifold slightly.

That's exactly what I was going to say about your pic.

With regards to what Thunderfox posted...

I was thinking this as well. The "other market" NBs have goofy fuel systems I haven't quite figured out yet. I actually have a NB regulator from an UK NB2 sitting in my garage. Thunderfox: if you can read the part number off the regulator (and it is a regulator) I can try to verify.

On top of the regulator, around the pressure reference pipe, it reads 195300-3730 BP58.

They are not that goofy, 98-00 have return systems and a rail very similar to the one Thunderfox posted, 01-05 have returnless.
The only real difference I can think of is a slight change to the rail for the non-Squaretop-US market on NB2.
I have used a EUDM 99 rail with a Squaretop with no problems. But when assembling leftovers (to know what parts goes where) the 01 rail did hit he 99 manifold, so the different manifolds can have unique fuel rails.

When will Thunderfox start a build thread?

Eh, the one with the red injectors is just like mine it seems!

I have a build thread but it's in another forum. Might start another one once I get all the parts for the engine, and start working on it. Not much to show right now...

The FPR that Thunderfox posted is not a USDM part, as far as I know. The USDM 94-97 FPRs had the vacuum reference on the side, similar to the 90-93 cars but at a different angle that contacts the valve cover. That FPR has a downward facing outlet (desirable) as well as a manifold reference that aims up, which is definitely not ever something we got in the US.

It looks like a factory NB return system, which is exactly what you would want for a VVT swap car. It's still easier for US guys to source a 99-00 rail with a 90-93 FPR, vs. trying to find a 2-year Euro-only fuel rail and ship it over.

I wonder if that rail and fpr have part numbers on them and if mazda comp can order them.

I checked, there's no part number aside from the code on top of the FPR... :(

It's ALLLLLIVE!!!!!

However, my LC-2 is still acting fucky (grumblegrumble) and I think the wiring for the COP's is still backwards on the front page. I think someone else mentioned it in this thread, but mine would not start until I flipped them.

Also
I took this to mean I could just tape over the tacho wire in the factory cas plug. However, my tach doesn't work. What do I need to do to make it work?

Thanks everyone for all the help!

You mean the trigger wire colors for the 01-05? I'll have a mod change it (I can't edit the OP anymore).

For the tacho, there's no tach wire in the factory CAS plug. If you're on a 90-93, you just need to connect wires #4/5 together at the igniter and it will connect the tach straight to the ECU. On the 94-95 cars, the tach is already connected to the ECU directly. In either case, you may need to provide a 1k pullup resistor to the tach driver to bring everything alive - you can test that by jumpering between B+ and IG- in the diagnostic box before cutting into your harness to add the resistor permanently.

Yes, one of the trigger wire colors is wrong (either on the 94-97 or 01-05, not sure which one). It would crank and crank but as soon as I switched the plugs it fired right up.

Mine is a 95 - so a 1k resistor in B+ and IG- in the diagnostic box, or a straight wire jump?

What ECU?

Ms3 basic (reverent build)

Did you wire in the tach output from the ECU? It's pin 10 on the db37, you will need to run it to the dash for the tachometer, or what I did, which is remove the tach pin from the ecu harness and connect it to pin 10 on the DB37. If you jumped the tach signal at the ignitor as specified in the OP, it should provide tach to the diagnostic connector and the dash.

I have not tested it yet though.

You guys have me all stirred up about the spark wiring.

The coils: Note the white wire coming from the bottom of the 2/3 coil pack and the black\white wire coming from the 1/4 pack

https://www.miataturbo.net/attachmen...1&d=1430424014

Better view of the bottom of the coils so its clear that at the coils:
White: 2/3 Trigger
Black\White: 1\4 Trigger
Red: +12V

https://www.miataturbo.net/attachmen...1&d=1430424119

Close up of the connector and mate:
2/3 Trigger: White-> Red
1\4 Trigger: Black\White-> White
+12V: Red->Blue
https://www.miataturbo.net/attachmen...4&d=1430424232

Assuming the ignitor is wired as expected, that would make the brown\yellow wire, Pin 1G on the ECU (Terminal B on the ignitor) the trigger for 1/4 and the brown wire, Pin 1 H on the ECU (Terminal G on the ignitor) the trigger for 2/3

Which is also the opposite that is documented in the OP. I also found this on the COP thread, which would agree with the above assessment (and is actually how I am wiring mine up, I removed the white/red wire from the bundle, I am running Brown\Yellow directly to the 1\4 Trigger and the Brown directly to the 2/3 Trigger.

https://www.miataturbo.net/attachmen...ine=1327066127

I actually posted the wiring diagram for this back in post 5 but I worded it backwards, and so that must have made it into the op. If a moderator switches the labels for the 94-97 trigger wires, it will be correct.

Rev said to route that wire over to the db37 pin 10 as well. I have to wonder though, if it's already on the ecu, why not can't it use the pin that's already there?

Depending on which 95 you have (OBDI or II), it may not be routed to the factory connector inside the ECU. If Rev says wire it to pin 10, do that.

Ok, I had Trey un-fuck the 90-93 wire colors. I'll hand-verify the 01-05 wire colors later this week. Can someone verify that the 94-97 trigger colors are correct?

That's the plan (in California right now for the tudor race). Just thought it'd be a nice feature for future versions - didn't realize that was changed with the switch to OBD2.

Trigger cyl 1/4: brown/yellow
Trigger cyl 2/3: brown
Verified on my 95

Just fielded a tech question on this topic and the answer is worth adding to this thread.

e: He is using a USDM 01-05 manifold with the VTCS system.

He asked about VICS, you talked about vcts...

I over-clipped his PM, but he is using a 2001 manifold. He said VICS, I knew he meant VTCS, so I misspelled it as VCTS. :)

Ah, good then. I've plugged the holes before, good to know I don't need to do that.

I just want to also confirm that there are 2 different fuel rails for the 99 miata. I encountered this a few years ago and went out to PanicMotorsports and looked at multiple 99's Steve had in stock. Some of my older posts scattered around show the exact differences.

I just saw this. I would assume it's because for a plug and play ECU, the pin on the ECU connector is a tach input, the ignitor generates the signal, though I don't know why the ECU would care other than to verify the ignitor is actually working.

The ignitors on the VVT coils don't generate this signal, so the responsibility for it falls to the ECU, which is now outputting instead of receiving, different circuitry behind there. It would be handy though if he had a jumper on the board that would let you switch on an output on that pin though,and I doubt it's doing anything when it's connected to a non-swapped 90-93 chassis.

Another here - mine would have been very tight. By orienting the FPR so that the line comes out the bottom I was able to route it around the VTCS opening by bending the tube slightly but I ended up getting a flat top intake so that was moot :giggle:


That makes sense. Would be nice to make it switchable though, though I guess beggars can't be choosers.

In any case, my car is running, most things have been sorted out. Playing with the VE tables to get everything right, and still on Reverent's base map AFR targets and timing. I'm running the entire 95 intake with the exception of the top half of the 02 airbox, so I had a place to put the IAT. It's not ideal, but it's what I have for now. Thanks everyone in this thread for the help! I'll be helping a buddy do this swap in his car, so I'll definitely pass it forward.

<p>Would it be possible to use the 01-05 fuel rail with an aftermarket fuel pressure regulator and some sort of adapter instead of the stock FPR (disclaimer: I don't have a full understanding of the fuel flow on the vvt motor.)</p>

Anything is possible with enough time and money. In this case it's hard to imagine a solution cheaper and faster than sourcing a 1999 rail and reusing your FPR

I would venture to say you can use the 99-05 rail with an aftermarket regulator, provided it was mounted somewhere other than on the rail itself. Your NA6 chassis has a return, so its just a matter of plumping the OEM feed from the tank to the aftermarket regulator, plumbing the return from the regulator into the OEM return line, and plumbing the "out to engine" to the 99-05 rail. Adapters exist for all of these connections to the factory hardlines.

Use of an aftermarket regulator would complicated things as compared to sticking your NA6 regulator on a 99 rail, but it would also give you the ability to adjust your fuel pressure as you see fit.

You are talking about swapping a BP6D into your NA6 chassis and running an MS, correct?

<p>I wasn't sure if it was possible to just completely replace the stock for with an aftermarket adjustable FPR.&nbsp;</p>

<p>From what I've read the OEM FPR can get overwhelmed so I was planning an adjustable of some sort.</p>

Aside from the added effort I don't see a problem with you doing that. There's a "fake FPR" (suppose it acts like a load balancer) on the end of the rail and it's detachable, the only reason I see the rail is not used, is the direction that this "fake FPR" is facing.

So if you can connect an external FPR to it, it should work no problem!

The OE FPR is overwhelmed by large fuel pumps, but you don't need anything beyond the stock pump to feed a 140whp VVT swap. If you were adding FI to a VVT swap and needed to run something like a DW300, then yes, you might be able to use the 01-05 rail with an FPR adapter and something like a Fuelab adjustable regulator mounted elsewhere in the car.

<p>I plan on an FI VVT at some point, hence my question, if I can put together a setup using the 01-05 fuel rail it saves me money in the long run.</p><p>So something like this plumbed to a fuelab afpr, then to the return line?</p><p><img src="http://cimg3.ibsrv.net/gimg/www.miataturbo.net-vbulletin/600x600/80-fuel_rail_delivery_adapter_regulator_mazda_rx_7_rx 7_fd3s_mx5_mx_5_miata_na_nb_nc_autobahn88_ft061_00 3_ef82047e7d166414b8a5dc54908d42c36f62c5a9.jpg" title="" /><br /><br />&nbsp;</p>

Swap is finally done and the car is purring as usual, apart from the fact that I still don't have VVT control, idle control, TPS and RPM. I'll get there.

However, a question which may or not be relevant to the subject of these swaps. Is the oil pressure with the BP-Z3 engine expected to be any different from the B6-ZE?

My gauge is a little bit above 6 bar when I start the car from cold, whereas with the B6 it used to be around 5 maybe. Maybe this is to be expected, or maybe I've knackered the sensor. Any thoughts?

The pump is different and there are additional oil system components, so a change in pressure isn't unreasonable. I put little weight in small differences in cold pressure. As long as hot pressure is where it needs to be, you're OK.

Alright, will keep an eye on it. Still some minor things to get done before it can actually go on the road, so I've only moved it about in my driveway.

Cheers!

The oil pressure is definitely higher. My 94 original motor would sit around 40-45psi cruising around town, the VVT motor is happy around 55-60psi cruising around.

Interesting. Mine is generally at 20-25 psi at idle; 40-45 psi while cruising around; and always 40psi while at the track being horse beat.
I noticed a ~5psi drop across the board when going to synthetic oil after break-in.
All numbers are with 10w30 oil.
Bottom end clearances were all ~1.8 thousandths.
No issues in 3k miles with 3 track days.

I should also note that my oil pressure sensor has been relocated to the firewall. Not sure if that messes with my numbers, but it wouldn't surprise me.