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Question for you guys, like an idiot I added the FM Coil Bracket adapter that does not fit the VVT engine because of the VVT line. Has anyone simply modified the VVT line to use AN lines instead of the hard lines? That way I could relocate the VVT line out of the way, and use the pretty FM coil bracket.
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whoops .. double post.
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I didn't but I know FM has a kit to relocate that line. Likely using AN lines as well. Sounds like a smart solution.
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Originally Posted by Goingnowherefast
(Post 1446069)
Question for you guys, like an idiot I added the FM Coil Bracket adapter that does not fit the VVT engine because of the VVT line. Has anyone simply modified the VVT line to use AN lines instead of the hard lines? That way I could relocate the VVT line out of the way, and use the pretty FM coil bracket.
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Originally Posted by Goingnowherefast
(Post 1446069)
Question for you guys, like an idiot I added the FM Coil Bracket adapter that does not fit the VVT engine because of the VVT line. Has anyone simply modified the VVT line to use AN lines instead of the hard lines? That way I could relocate the VVT line out of the way, and use the pretty FM coil bracket.
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1 Attachment(s)
Originally Posted by shuiend
(Post 1446423)
I have been running my VVT feed with an AN line for years. FM has directions with the big spark kit and on the website. They say to tap the fitting at the top, I welded on a fitting instead. I have had zero issues with this setup.
Originally Posted by MX5RACER
(Post 1446480)
Which bracket did you get? The FM bracket to mount NA coils on a NB head? If so, you still won't be able to mount that bracket to the valve cover, even if you move the VVT line as there are no mounting bosses cast on the valve cover like the NB1 valve cover has.
But good news is I've decided to just bite the bullet and go with a COP system from Fab9 (or LS coils). Might as well just do it right anyways. Also the VVT motor is in the car on Blackbird Fabworx Drop Mounts. Took about 30 minutes to drop in. Also with the help of Greg @ Thecarpassionchannel I created a new injection harness with the VVT power + signal pigtail built in. I think it turned out really well and looks better than OEM tbh. Attachment 235542 |
LS coils. Friends don't let friends fab.
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Originally Posted by sixshooter
(Post 1447236)
LS coils. Friends don't let friends fab.
*Edit* Maybe it's better that I just figure out a way to mount my old ignition system. Get the car running as-is and then figure out an ignition solution. |
Originally Posted by Goingnowherefast
(Post 1447866)
I've got a few PM's saying the same thing. That certainly seems to be the prevailing wisdom around here (that LS coils are way better). Is there a main benefit of LS coils over the Fab9 system for low boost (less than 12 PSI) setups?
*Edit* Maybe it's better that I just figure out a way to mount my old ignition system. Get the car running as-is and then figure out an ignition solution. |
Originally Posted by acedeuce802
(Post 1447916)
LS coils work. Fab9 coils sometimes work.
This seems to be a good idea for those not wanting to mess with the ignition system but they don't want some wonky homemade coil bracket. I'll DIY an LS coil setup if I run into ignition problems down the line. *EDIT* The best thing about this place is people will call out your stupid ideas. I need to be called a dumbass, and people do that here on the daily. That's why I love this place. |
So what are you guys using for exhaust setups? I've decided to go with a 01-05 Racing Beat Header (since I'm doing a Rotrex install down the line) with a 90-97 Yonaka cat-back. I currently have a test pipe for a 90-93 but obviously that won't bolt up to the 01-05 Racing Beat header. Should I simply take it to an exhaust shop and say "hey, please connect these pipes without cutting the flanges off?" Does anyone else have a more elegant solution?
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Use a 94-97 header.
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Originally Posted by Leafy
(Post 1450117)
Use a 94-97 header.
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Then swap to an NB chassis And NB cat back. Every other solution is not elegant.
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Originally Posted by Leafy
(Post 1450119)
Then swap to an NB chassis And NB cat back. Every other solution is not elegant.
From OBD2, 1.8L's, VTPS, ABS in more cars, Torsen LSD's, better synchro's in the 5-spds, much better aero, better tophats that increase travel etc. I could go on and on. There's just a huge list of improvements that makes the early cars objectively worse. But like all stupid folks, the lure of a cheap price and the thought that it will be easy to change all that won me over. |
Originally Posted by Goingnowherefast
(Post 1450112)
So what are you guys using for exhaust setups?
To save some $$ at swap time, I used the stock VVT header and downpipe, and fabricated from there back with a 2.5" pipe, universal cat, resonator, and muffler. Got most of it from Summit, and it wasn't overly expensive. I recently obtained an NB2 Racing Beat header which bolted right up to my 'NB' exhaust... |
We used a 01+ racing beat header with a custom test pipe into a 93 chassis with a 93 exhaust. Worked great.
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1 Attachment(s)
Tis a sad day indeed. Attempted my first start: Car cranks but does not fire. Composite log attached. I have sync counter loses.
Lots of variables at stake here. Car's been sitting for weeks. It's cold, I'm on full E85, and the battery could be low on power (on a trickle charger right now) |
So question about fuel setup. I just put a complete 03 long block into my 96 chassis with a 95 harness. Do I have to swap to the nb1 fuel rail and the na6 FPR still? I plan on using an nb1 intake manifold for the time being. Running the car on an AEM EMS-4
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Originally Posted by 96morbst
(Post 1457742)
So question about fuel setup. I just put a complete 03 long block into my 96 chassis with a 95 harness. Do I have to swap to the nb1 fuel rail and the na6 FPR still? I plan on using an nb1 intake manifold for the time being. Running the car on an AEM EMS-4
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There should be no ambiguity or questions about the fuel system. It is not dependent on chassis or wiring or what intake manifold you use or anything else. For any NB motor in any NA chassis, you use a 99-00 rail and a USDM 90-93 -OR- EUDM 99-00 FPR.
Originally Posted by Savington
(Post 1158403)
Fuel system:
Use a 1999-2000 fuel rail and a 1990-1993 USDM fuel pressure regulator installed upside down with the fuel outlet bent straight to clear the intake manifold. No other combination of USDM parts will work. The 90-93 fuel rails are too short, the 94-97 rails have incorrect mounting tabs, and the 01-05 rail places the fuel pressure regulator in a spot which interferes with the cylinder head. The 94-97 FPR places the pressure reference in a spot which interferes with the cylinder head and the 99-05 regulators do not have a return line. |
Originally Posted by Savington
(Post 1457929)
There should be no ambiguity or questions about the fuel system. It is not dependent on chassis or wiring or what intake manifold you use or anything else. For any NB motor in any NA chassis, you use a 99-00 rail and a USDM 90-93 -OR- EUDM 99-00 FPR.
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Have a question on fitment of injector harness with squaretop and aftermarket fuel rail from Radium. The 97 injector harness appears much bulkier than NB injector harness that was designed to lay under the IM as opposed to above the fuel rail as the case in NA.
I have to take the squaretop apart to get to connect the injectors anyway..is there a recommended NB injector harness swap into NA? Thanks |
I used an NA8 FPR flipped on a BP4W rail with success for a while. It's a straight barb so no bending the tube.
KJ01-13-280 https://www.atkinsrotary.com/store/i...J01-13-280.jpg |
Double post
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Originally Posted by stevos555
(Post 1458576)
Have a question on fitment of injector harness with squaretop and aftermarket fuel rail from Radium. The 97 injector harness appears much bulkier than NB injector harness that was designed to lay under the IM as opposed to above the fuel rail as the case in NA.
I have to take the squaretop apart to get to connect the injectors anyway..is there a recommended NB injector harness swap into NA? Thanks
Originally Posted by psyber_0ptix
(Post 1458580)
I used an NA8 FPR flipped on a BP4W rail with success for a while. It's a straight barb so no bending the tube.
Originally Posted by Savington
(Post 1158403)
The 94-97 FPR places the pressure reference in a spot which interferes with the cylinder head
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Thanks Sav. So keep the 97 harness and just make it fit? |
Oh wow, didn't know there where two different Bp4w fuel rails.
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fuel rail
1 Attachment(s)
My injector can’t be turned 90 degrees due to clearance with the head. I guess will need to run it at 180 degrees and sneak the plug in the tight opening. Can someone confirm that they have also this much clearance with the squaretop.
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Originally Posted by stevos555
(Post 1458631)
My injector can’t be turned 90 degrees due to clearance with the head. I guess will need to run it at 180 degrees and sneak the plug in the tight opening. Can someone confirm that they have also this much clearance with the squaretop.
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I may have confused 97 with 99. On the NA8 they were straight by the head as there was more room between rail and head. Please correct me if I am wrong as i am a noob and being a bit OCD.
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Originally Posted by Savington
(Post 1158403)
1994-1997 coils: +12v: 94-97: Blue 99-05: Black/White trigger cyl 1/4: 94-97: brown 99-00: brown/yellow 01-05: brown/white trigger cyl 2/3: 94-97: brown/yellow 99-00: brown 01-05: black/yellow ground: 94-05: black https://www.miataturbo.net/useful-sa...04/#post152397 https://www.miataturbo.net/attachmen...ine=1327066127 |
Done, thanks. Up to v1.06 now
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2 Attachment(s)
Got a question, running a BP6D in a 96 chassis. Confirmed it has fuel/spark/compression. Loaded the 99-00 startup map from MSPNP.com MegaSquirtPNP by DIYAutoTune.com The vvt actuator is wired but not hooked up as we would like to get it started first. Using a stock oem 99-05 trigger wheel, that is installed correctly. Stock injectors, 99 fuel rail, 1.6 regulator, skunk2 intake. We were able to get the original motor running on the same ecu before pulling it.
Included data log and composite log. Let me know what you think it is. |
Just confirming. If I use the BP5B-13-280 (UK) fuel regulator, I should point the fuel return downwards correct? Seems like that makes it a convenient part. Thanks!
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Yes, it fires down. You're basically using the EUDM parts in their original EUDM configuration.
On the S1 car I'm building (VVT motor into a '94), I used the VVT rail with an adapter and an external FPR. It is a tight fit, but it works. The adapter lets the outlet fire at a ~45deg aimed forward, which is the only space a fuel line would fit into. For folks who were going to use an aftermarket FPR anyway, it's a good option. I'll post some pics here and in my current S1/ST4 customer build thread later today. |
1 Attachment(s)
Attachment 235546
This is our regulator adapter on a VVT fuel rail with an Earl's Vaporguard 1/8" NPT to 5/16" 90deg fitting. The green goo is Gasoila E85 sealant. There's no way to get a standard FPR in this spot with clearance for vac/fuel hookups, but you can get the NPT fitting oriented correctly so it just barely sneaks out of there. This is a good option for people who are going to run an aftermarket FPR (something like a Fuelab 545 would go inline between this and the return line) since you can use the OEM VVT rail that comes on the motor instead of sourcing a combination of US parts or a hard-to-find EUDM 99-00 setup. Adapter: Trackspeed FPR Adapter Fuelab 545-series: Fuelab Fuel Pressure Regulator |
Can we add to the Alternator section of the first post that you need a different lug for the 94-97? It's easier to "relug/crimp new lug" it when you have the engine out.
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Originally Posted by ysleem
(Post 1468745)
Can we add to the Alternator section of the first post that you need a different lug for the 94-97? It's easier to "relug/crimp new lug" it when you have the engine out.
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Brown wire from engine harness (1.6) to 94 97 alternator. This app wont let me upload pics.
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Thanks. The picture upload stopped working on GT app about 1 month ago.
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Youll need a lug for an 8 gauge wire. Fyi. 5/16" hole
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I think most people just drill out the factory one because it takes like one second.
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My drill is garbage haha. That is probably the way to go!
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For those of you looking to step up your wiring game, I stumbled across www.wirebarn.com a week or two ago. They sell multi-color packs of GXL and TXL cross-link automotive wire in sub-spool quantities for really reasonable prices (a few cents more than you would pay for a full 100ft spool).
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Wirebarn is addicting. TXL wire smells and feels amazing. I have soooo much wire from them. I always buy the like 8 pack of colors so all the wiring is the same color on my car. I wish they did striped wire too though.
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Yup. About 1/3 the price of good M22759 wire, too.
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Originally Posted by Savington
(Post 1470562)
Yup. About 1/3 the price of good M22759 wire, too.
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I bought enough TXL last month to make sure I would never be tempted to buy /32 :)
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Great link and thank you. What wire gage is good to start with for TPS, IAC, CAS extension to CAM and Crank sensor ?
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Originally Posted by Savington
(Post 1470556)
For those of you looking to step up your wiring game, I stumbled across www.wirebarn.com a week or two ago. They sell multi-color packs of GXL and TXL cross-link automotive wire in sub-spool quantities for really reasonable prices (a few cents more than you would pay for a full 100ft spool).
I'm guessing this is way better wire than what i was using ( hookup wire)
Originally Posted by Savington
(Post 1468084)
https://i.imgur.com/34x9YBel.jpg?
This is our regulator adapter on a VVT fuel rail with an Earl's Vaporguard 1/8" NPT to 5/16" 90deg fitting. The green goo is Gasoila E85 sealant. There's no way to get a standard FPR in this spot with clearance for vac/fuel hookups, but you can get the NPT fitting oriented correctly so it just barely sneaks out of there. This is a good option for people who are going to run an aftermarket FPR (something like a Fuelab 545 would go inline between this and the return line) since you can use the OEM VVT rail that comes on the motor instead of sourcing a combination of US parts or a hard-to-find EUDM 99-00 setup. Adapter: Trackspeed FPR Adapter Fuelab 545-series: Fuelab Fuel Pressure Regulator Well, if only I read this a few months ago.. |
TXL/GXL (crosslink) is what OEMs use to wire cars. Milspec is cool but 3x the price. If I were wiring a race car from scratch, then yes, /32 wire is what I'd use. If I'm adding a few dozen wires for a VVT swap setup, then TXL is the correct wire for the application. Hookup wire won't burn the car down but it's not nearly as robust.
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TPS:
The 90-93 manual chassis did not originally come with a 0-5v variable TPS. To use a 94-05 0-5v throttle position sensor in a 90-93 chassis, consult with your ECU supplier to confirm the wiring changes that are necessary. The 1994-1997 chassis did come with a 0-5v variable TPS. It is a standard 3-wire TPS with an additional fourth wire (red) which serves as a wide-open switch. Your standalone ECU will likely not use this fourth wire, so if you are changing the pigtail to a 99-05 style, simply heat-shrink over this unused wire. If you are using your 94-97 throttle body, there are no wiring changes necessary. If you are using the 99-05 sensor, wiring colors are listed below: 5v Reference: 94-05: Light Green/Red (Light Green/White...97) https://cimg9.ibsrv.net/gimg/www.mia...f1ab197ec4.pngTPS |
Originally Posted by Savington
(Post 1158403)
Wiring: CAS: You must use the NB cam and crank angle sensors if you want VVT control. There is no way to control the VVT if you use an NA-style CAS driven from the exhaust camshaft. The OEM 1990-1997 CAS has 4 wires. One wire is +12v, one wire is a sensor ground, and there is a signal wire for the crank position and a signal wire for the cam position. You will need to cut the factory plug off and extend the +12v and ground wires to each of the NB sensors. The cam signal wire will get routed to the camshaft sensor on the top of the valve cover, and the crank signal wire will get routed to the crankshaft sensor located near the harmonic damper. This will bring the appropriate cam and crankshaft patterns along the OEM harness into the ECU, and all of the other changes necessary will happen in the firmware/software of your ECU. |
Originally Posted by Itty
(Post 1472652)
Okay so I've just finished reading through the thread again, and this still doesn't make sense to me for a 96-97 late NA. Those cars already had crank position sensors, so couldn't you just plug the 01+ sensor into the 96-97 harness and get the signal to the ECU without having to extend the CAS? It's also weird because those cars also have 4 wires for the CAS. From what I read on the interwebs, the CPS was just used to monitor for misfires on the 96-97. That still doesn't explain why you couldn't just plug the 01+ CPS into the 96-97 harness in the stock location (and make the adjustment on the ECU side, if need be), right?
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96/97 crank sensor is a 2 wire VR sensor. Outputs a self generated sine wave.
99+ is a 3 wire Hall Effect sensor. Hence the lack of 12v in the 96/97s |
The '97 has three wires, but the third wire is a shielding ground for the other two. You could theoretically pass 12v up one of them, the signal up the other, and then wire a new ground as well, and then change all the pinning at the ECU, but fuck that.
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Originally Posted by Savington
(Post 1472777)
The '97 has three wires, but the third wire is a shielding ground for the other two. You could theoretically pass 12v up one of them, the signal up the other, and then wire a new ground as well, and then change all the pinning at the ECU, but fuck that.
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Originally Posted by Savington
(Post 1470556)
For those of you looking to step up your wiring game, I stumbled across www.wirebarn.com a week or two ago. They sell multi-color packs of GXL and TXL cross-link automotive wire in sub-spool quantities for really reasonable prices (a few cents more than you would pay for a full 100ft spool).
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Originally Posted by Uncle Humjaba
(Post 1472803)
And if you need more, delcity.net has 18ga TXL in 100ft spools for $10 in all the colors of the rainbow.
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