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Savington 08-17-2014 09:47 PM

The Definitive "VVT swap into 90-97 chassis" Megathread.
 
The Definitive 1990-1997 VVT Swap Megathread.

I've made several posts on this topic, but I've never consolidated all of the information into once place until now. This thread will outline all of the mechanical and wiring tweaks necessary to install a 2001+ engine in a 1990-1997 chassis. This method relies mostly on OEM 1990-1997 wiring, and assumes you will be using a standalone ECU (either an AEM or a Megasquirt of some variety).

There are other ways to complete the same task, but this post will outline the methods I've used successfully. I believe that this is the easiest way to complete this swap with the least cost and headaches incurred.

In some places, I have added info that is 99-00 specific, but this thread is largely VVT-specific. If you are doing a 99-00 BP4W swap, you'll need to fill in the gaps yourself.

VVT = Variable Valve Timing
VICS = Variable Intake Control System
VTCS = Variable Throttle Control System
EUDM = European Domestic Market
TPS = Throttle Position Sensor
IAC = Idle Air Control
CAS = Cam Angle Sensor (refers specifically to the 90-97 sensor)

Motor mounts, transmission, clutch, flywheel, starter motor
Any 1994-2005 motor mount will bolt up to the 2001-2005 block. The 2001-2005 engines used a unique 4-hole mount, but any 94-05 3-hole mount will work in place of these. All 1.8 mounts (94-05) will bolt into the 90-97 sub-frame.

All 5 and 6-speed 90-05 transmissions will bolt up to the 99-05 block. You can use any clutch (1.6 or 1.8) as long as you use a matching flywheel (1.6 clutch with 1.6 flywheel, 1.8 clutch with 1.8 flywheel).

The starter motors are functionally identical. The NB starter is lighter, so if you have the choice, use it.

Alternator and pulleys
Use a 1994-1997 alternator and pulley. The 1.6 alternator has a different shaft diameter, so a pulley swap is not possible - the entire alternator must be swapped. It may be possible to use the 99-05 ECU with wiring changes and an ECU with alternator control, but few/no PnP ECUs for 1990-1997s will have this feature, so it's easiest to simply use a 94-97 alternator with onboard control. For 90-93 cars, you will need to enlarge the hole in your factory alternator wire ring terminal, or install a new, larger ring terminal to match the larger 94-97 alternator lug.


Intake manifold, throttle body, and throttle cable
Use any 1999-2005 intake manifold (VICS, VCTS, or EUDM Squaretop). There are three OEM intake manifold options. The 99-00 "VICS" manifold will produce the most low-end torque (assuming you are controlling the VICS butterflies). The 01-05 "VTCS" manifold is the most common and the cheapest, but it makes slightly less power than the other two options and requires very slight modification to clear the 99-00 fuel rail. The 02-05 JDM/EUDM "Squaretop" manifold was available overseas and makes more power than either US-market intake manifold, but slightly less mid-range torque than the 99-00 VICS manifold. The 1994-1997 intake manifold will bolt up, but the ports on the 99-05 heads are significantly higher and the 94-97 IM ports are misaligned by 3/4". All three intake manifolds are EGR compatible. The EUDM manifolds came with an EGR valve in Europe, while Japanese market cars were shipped with block-off plates on those ports.

All three intake manifolds have the same throttle body location. Any 1994-2005 throttle body can be used, but the 99-05 TB is more desirable for its internal idle valve routing, which makes plumbing for custom 2.5" cold air intakes or intercooler piping much simpler. Using the 99-05 throttle body will require that you change the TPS and IAC valve pigtails, but this is a fairly simple modification. The 1990-1993 throttle body cannot be used on the 99-05 manifold without an adapter, and you lose the benefits of the linear TPS on all 94-05 throttle bodies.

Use a 1999-2005 throttle cable. It will bolt directly into the NA chassis and fit perfectly with the NB engine. The NA cable is too long.

Exhaust manifold and exhaust
Any header from 1994-2005 will bolt up to the head. If you are using a 1994-1997 header, you will need to delete the EGR tube and EGR valve, but you will be able to use a cat and catback exhaust from a 1994-1997 (the exhaust hangar locations are the same for 90-97). Using a 1999-2005 header will allow you to retain the EGR tube, but you will need to have a custom cat pipe built to jump from the 99-05 header flange to your 90-97 catback (you cannot use an NB catback without changing several of the exhaust hangars). If you use a 99-05 header to retain EGR, the 2001+ headers flow much better and are significantly more desirable.

Fuel system:
Use a 1999-2000 fuel rail and a 1990-1993 USDM fuel pressure regulator installed upside down with the fuel outlet bent straight to clear the intake manifold. No other combination of USDM parts will work. The 90-93 fuel rails are too short, the 94-97 rails have incorrect mounting tabs, and the 01-05 rail places the fuel pressure regulator in a spot which interferes with the cylinder head. The 94-97 FPR places the pressure reference in a spot which interferes with the cylinder head and the 99-05 regulators do not have a return line.

In Europe/Japan, a return-style 1.8L NB was available, and the FPR from that car will bolt up to the USDM 1999-2000 fuel rail as well. No modifications are needed to install this part, and the return line will face down. The part number is BP5B-13-280. This is a 43.5psi vacuum-referenced regulator (1:1), just like the USDM 90-97 regulators.

You will need to retain one of the fuel injection fittings from the 01-05 fuel rail to use as an adapter on the 99-00 fuel rail. I prefer to use a 90* adapter instead of a straight adapter to aid fuel line routing around the alternator. Do not simply slip a fuel hose over the end of the 99-00 fuel rail - it will not stay in place. Use 5/16" fuel hose to run from the feed line to the 90* fuel injection adapter and into the fuel rail. For the return, install the 90-93 FPR upside down in place of the OEM 99-00 fuel damper (fuel outlet facing up). Use 5/16" fuel line to run around the back of the intake manifold and into the return line on the chassis. The fuel pressure will be 43psi with a pressure reference, just like the 1990-1993 fuel system.

Alternatively, you can use an aftermarket fuel pressure regulator. The stock VVT fuel rail can be used if the factory fuel damper is replaced with an adapter and used in conjunction with an aftermarket fuel pressure regulator.

This adapter will fit and allows you to use the OEM VVT fuel rail: http://www.trackspeedengineering.com...r-adapter.html

Coils:
Use the 2001-2005 coils and wires. The VVT oil feed line interferes with the 1990-2000 coil mounting location. The 01-05 coils are fairly reliable and easy to wire up.

Wiring:
CAS:


You must use the NB cam and crank angle sensors if you want VVT control. There is no way to control the VVT if you use an NA-style CAS driven from the exhaust camshaft.

The OEM 1990-1997 CAS has 4 wires. One wire is +12v, one wire is a sensor ground, and there is a signal wire for the crank position and a signal wire for the cam position. You will need to cut the factory plug off and extend the +12v and ground wires to each of the NB sensors. The cam signal wire will get routed to the camshaft sensor on the top of the valve cover, and the crank signal wire will get routed to the crankshaft sensor located near the harmonic damper. This will bring the appropriate cam and crankshaft patterns along the OEM harness into the ECU, and all of the other changes necessary will happen in the firmware/software of your ECU.

12v (extend 90-97 wire to both 99-05 sensors):
90-97: White/Red
99-05: White/Red

Cam (extend to Cam sensor only):
90-97: yellow/blue
99-00: grey/blue
01-05: grey/blue

Crank (extend to Crank sensor only)
90-97: white
99-00 grey/red
01-05 violet/white

Ground (extend to both 99-05 sensors)
90-97: black/light green
99-05: black/blue

IAC Valve:
If you are swapping to the 99-05 throttle body to upgrade to the internally routed IAC valve, you will need to swap the pigtails for the TPS and IAC wires. The IAC valve wiring is not sensitive to polarity, so you can simply swap the pigtail without worrying about which wire goes where.

TPS:
The 90-93 manual chassis did not originally come with a 0-5v variable TPS. To use a 94-05 0-5v throttle position sensor in a 90-93 chassis, consult with your ECU supplier to confirm the wiring changes that are necessary.

The 1994-1997 chassis did come with a 0-5v variable TPS. It is a standard 3-wire TPS with an additional fourth wire (red) which serves as a wide-open switch. Your standalone ECU will likely not use this fourth wire, so if you are changing the pigtail to a 99-05 style, simply heat-shrink over this unused wire. If you are using your 94-97 throttle body, there are no wiring changes necessary. If you are using the 99-05 sensor, wiring colors are listed below:

5v Reference:
94-97: Light Green/White
99-05: Light Green/Red

Signal:
94-97: Red/Black
99-05: Green/Black

Ground:
94-97: Black/Blue
99-05: Black/Red

VVT:
The VVT solenoid is a 2-wire PWM solenoid, just like an EBC valve. There is no polarity on the wires. Connect one wire to +12v (the injector harness is very close and has plenty of extra current room on its fuse) and the other wire directly to your ECU's VVT control pin.

Coils
The wiring modifications for the coils are chassis-specific.
1990-1993:
You will need to delete the ignitor first. The 01-05 coils have on-board ignitors. Connect the wires as follows:

https://www.miataturbo.net/attachmen..._explained-jpg

Route 1 (white) to 2 (brown/yellow) (trigger for cyl 1/4, the text in the pic above is wrong, see post #156)
Route 7 (brown) to 8 (red) (trigger for cyl 2/3, text in pic above is wrong, see post #156)
Route 4 (yellow/blue) to 5 (black/white) (connects ECU directly to tachometer at gauge cluster)
Terminate 3 (blue) (unused +12v)
Terminate 6 (black) (unused ground)

At the 90-93 coil connector, there are three wires (+12v and two triggers, no ground). Connect as follows:

12v:
90-93: Blue
99-05: Black/White




Trigger cyl 1/4:
90-93: white
99-00: brown/yellow
01-05: brown/white

Trigger cyl 2/3:
90-93: red
99-00: brown
01-05: black/yellow

Ground:
90-93: none
99-05: black (ground to intake manifold)

The 01-05 coils have no provisions for a tachometer output. The MS Labs MS3 Basic, AEM Series 1 (30-1710), AEM EMS-4 (30-6905), MSPNP2, MS3-Pro, and all 94+ MSPNP1s have a tachometer driver which will run the factory tach in lieu of the factory coils. For 90-93 MSPNP1 owners, you will need an aftermarket tachometer driver, which can either be added to your ECU or purchased and wired separately. See posts 44 and 62 for more details.

1994-1997 coils:
+12v:
94-97: Blue
99-05: Black/White

trigger cyl 1/4:
94-00: brown/yellow
01-05: brown/white

trigger cyl 2/3:
94-00: brown
01-05: black/yellow

ground:
94-05: black

Injectors (90-93 only)
Most people elect to switch to sequential fuel while doing this swap. The factory 1990-1993 cars (except for California-emissions 1993 cars) have fuel injectors wired in pairs (1/3 and 2/4). I typically elect to run new trigger wires for injectors #3 and #4 and leave the OEM trigger wires in place for cylinders #1 and #2. Simply cut the trigger wires (Yellow and Yellow/Black) at the #3 and #4 injector pigtails, heat-shrink the loose ends on the harness side, and attach/route two new wires directly from your ECU to the trigger wires for injectors #3 and #4. Terminate all loose wire ends.

Injectors ('93 California emissions and all 94-97):
Use your factory 94-97 injector harness. No modifications are necessary.

CLT sensors
The 90-93 cars have two coolant temp sensors and a thermo-switch. The two-wire sensor on the back of the head is the sensor that provides the ECU. The one-wire sensor on the back of the head provides signal to the gauge cluster. The one-wire switch on the front of the engine switches the fans on and off. The 1994-1997 cars have the same two sensors on the back of the head, but the OEM ECU controls the fans instead of a separate thermo-switch.

Install your 1990-1997 2-wire ECU coolant temp sensor and your one-wire gauge coolant temp sensor in the 2001-2005 engine. This will allow you to retain your OEM CLT sensor pigtails. The 01-05 engines have a small plug in the hole used by the one-wire gauge sender - simply remove the plug and install the sender in the 01-05 engine. The front thermo-switch (90-93) is no longer necessary, as your ECU will control the fans.

:dealwithit:

Savington 08-17-2014 09:47 PM

First post reserved for update log.
8/17/14 v1.0
8/18/14: v1.01 (corrected 90-93 ignition trigger source and 01-05 coil pigtail wiring colors)
9/4/14: v1.02 (clarified CAS wiring requirements)
9/8/14: v1.03 (added 99-00 coil wiring for VVT into NB1 swaps, thanks Joyrider, and aftermarket tach info for 90-93 MSPNP1 owners, thanks Ben)
4/30/15: v1.04 (Fixed incorrect wire colors in 90-93 coil triggers)
12/17/16: v1.05 (added info on EUDM/JDM 1.8L return-style FPR)
12/28/17: v1.06 (corrected 94-97 coil wire trigger colors)
2/21/18: v1.07 (added info about aftermarket regulators in conjunction with OEM VVT fuel rail)
2/25/18: v1.08 (added note on 90-93 alternator ring terminal)
3/20/18: v1.09 (corrected 94-97 TPS 5vref wire color)

curly 08-18-2014 09:52 AM

Nice work Sav, this will help me a lot soon.

For comparison's sake, here are Keith's wiring instructions for the '01+ coils in a '90-'93


Remove Mazda igniter & plug. We’ll be re-appropriating its wires & discarding the igniter in the steps below.
Clip the Mazda brown/yellow wire & the Mazda white wire. Crimp them together.
Clip the Mazda brown wire and the Mazda red wire. Crimp them together.
Clip the Mazda black/white wire & the Mazda yellow/blue wire. Crimp them together.
Clip the Mazda black wire & run it to the black wires at the 01-05 coil pigtails. This is ground.
Secure the leftover Mazda blue wire to prevent a short- it is 12V.
Now cut the 3-wire plug from the coil harness. Take the blue wire & run it to the black/white wires at the 01-05
coil pigtails. This is 12v.
The white wire runs the coil for cylinders 1&4. Connect it to the brown/white wire at the 1&4 01-05 coil.
The red wire runs cylinders 2&3. Connect it to the black/yellow wire at the 2&3 01-05 coil.
I think they're the same, but I haven't read through them both completely.

I did however follow the above instructions on a '90 and it worked perfectly. It does result in having ZERO tach. It'll require you to use a tach output pin on your standalone ECU (I'm assuming we all have one by now). And as another note, the gen1 MSPNPs did NOT have this output pin. Either send it to DIY for $75 and they'll solder in the necessary components, or buy your own bits and google how to do so. There is a drop down menu for a tacho output pin in tunerstudios, but the circuitry is not there.

Dunning Kruger Affect 08-18-2014 10:06 AM


Originally Posted by Savington (Post 1158403)
Install your 1990-1997 2-wire ECU coolant temp sensor and your one-wire gauge coolant temp sensor in the 2001-2005 engine. This will allow you to retain your OEM CLT sensor pigtails. The 01-05 engines have a small plug in the hole used by the one-wire gauge sender - simply remove the plug and install the sender in the 01-05 engine. The front thermoswitch (90-93) is no longer necessary, as your ECU will control the fans.

Protip: Do this while the engine is out of the car. Doing it while the engine is in the bay is a colossal pain in the ass.

Morello 08-18-2014 11:34 AM

Subscribed... Thank you very much! I wish I would have read this yesterday so I could have grabbed the throttle cable off the car I pulled the engine from.

Edit: In looking around at the coil wiring information from a VVT engine, it seems that the logic/trigger wire colors are brown/white for coil 1 and black/yellow for coil 2 source 1 source 2. It's brown and brown/yellow for 95 source. Unless I've misunderstood something?

Savington 08-18-2014 01:19 PM

yeah, I botched the coil wiring colors. Fixing it now

shuiend 08-18-2014 01:42 PM

The thread has been stickied.

freedomgli 08-18-2014 01:48 PM


Originally Posted by Savington (Post 1158403)
Injectors (90-93 only)
Most people elect to switch to sequential fuel while doing this swap. The factory 1990-1993 cars (except for California-emissions 1993 cars) have fuel injectors wired in pairs (1/3 and 2/4). I typically elect to run new trigger wires for injectors #3 and #4 and leave the OEM trigger wires in place for cylinders #1 and #2. Simply cut the trigger wires (Yellow and Yellow/Black) at the #3 and #4 injector pigtails, heatshrink the loose ends on the harness side, and attach/route two new wires directly from your ECU to the trigger wires for injectors #3 and #4. Terminate all loose wire ends.

Thank you very much for this. I was wondering how to convert my 1991 wiring harness to take advantage of the sequential fuel injection capabilities of my MS Labs Basic MS3. Your explanation is straightforward and easy to follow. Even though I have the FM 36-2 timing wheel I've elected to keep my '90-'93 coils for ease of use so I still stuck with wasted spark for now.

Savington 08-18-2014 04:03 PM

Sequential spark is a nice improvement for guys who are running into the dwelling limits of high-performance coils when running them in a batch configuration, but especially in N/A applications it's not a must-have thing. Sequential fuel, OTOH, improves fuel economy and driveability and is IMO a must-have thing.

18psi 08-18-2014 04:06 PM

Very cool Andrew. Props

freedomgli 08-18-2014 04:12 PM

Agreed. Sequential fuel injection is a must, sequential ignition is a nice to have but not really necessary on a naturally aspirated motor like mine. Eventually I want sequential fuel and spark, per-cylinder knock detection and EGT probes in each exhaust runner so I have a near complete picture of what's going on inside each cylinder.

harrybeachdog 08-18-2014 04:18 PM

Thanks a bunch for this man, I specifically became active here because of how useful these posts have been in my swap.

zerogt86 08-18-2014 05:42 PM

Thanks for consolidating all of this information, I'm sure it will be useful as I am doing one of these swaps now!

When deleting the ignitor on a 90-93 car, do you typically cut off the connector and solder or crimp to the wires directly? Or is there a source for the other end of that plug with new wires on it? Just trying to gauge how much cutting and splicing needs to be done.

Savington 08-18-2014 06:24 PM

I typically cut and crimp. AFAIK the ignitor side of that connector doesn't exist.

zerogt86 08-18-2014 06:28 PM


Originally Posted by Savington (Post 1158665)
I typically cut and crimp. AFAIK the ignitor side of that connector doesn't exist.

Thanks!

Midtenn 08-18-2014 06:36 PM

On the '95 models (this maybe true of all 94-97, but I can't verify it) you can use the wiring from the solenoid mounted to the intake manifold for the FPR for convenient power for the VVT solenoid. It has a 12v+ and a trigger wire. Just repin the wire on the ECU side to where you need it.

Leafy 08-18-2014 07:50 PM

This link should probably be in this thread. https://docs.google.com/spreadsheet/...sLU8yX2c#gid=0

HHammerly 08-18-2014 10:49 PM

Subbed, have a VVT motor in the garage waiting for my 90 that is on loan (long term storage) to my parents.
<a href="http://s1084.photobucket.com/user/HHammerly/media/White%2090%20Miata/c03cc8b8.jpg.html" target="_blank"><img src="http://i1084.photobucket.com/albums/j420/HHammerly/White%2090%20Miata/c03cc8b8.jpg" border="0" alt=" photo c03cc8b8.jpg"/></a>

my90 08-19-2014 12:00 AM

1 Attachment(s)
I would like to add to this, mostly minor stuff;
the oil pressure sender, specific to the car needs, to be used
the Air Intake Temp wiring needs to tapped into, on the 1990 I found that the Ground Black/LT GR pin 2P & Signal Red/GR pin 2D in the air box harness for the new sensor
the fuel pump needs to be jumped in the diagnostic box for the early cars at least
the exhaust hanger for the down pipe needs to be retained from the VVT
you will need a wide band if you go standalone
you will need an air intake like AEM or K&N
I found it easier to use the entire VVT exhaust system
You will need a means of holding the hood up in the 1.6L cars as the prop rod will not work anymore
I went with AEM-4 and got good tech support from TSE, thank you Sav !
https://www.miataturbo.net/attachmen...ine=1408420857

Leafy 08-19-2014 12:03 AM


Originally Posted by my90 (Post 1158734)
I would like to add to this;
the oil pressure sender, specific to the car needs, to be used
the Air Intake Temp wiring needs to tapped into, on the 1990 I found that the Ground Black/LT GR pin 2P & Signal Red/GR pin 2D in the air box harness for the new sensor
the fuel pump needs to be jumped in the diagnostic box for the early cars at least
the exhaust hanger for the down pipe needs to be retained from the VVT
you will need a wide band if you go standalone
you will need an air intake like AEM or K&N
I found it easier to use the entire VVT exhaust system
http://www.miatatu rbo.net/attachmen...n e=1408420857
I went with AEM-4 and got good tech support from TSE

This is all over the place. AIT tapping really should be included in stand alone's instructions, so it doesnt need to be here.
F/P doesnt need to be jumpered to ground in any scenario unless you wired your stand alone like a dolt

you can fit either 1.8 or 1.6 intake tubes onto the engine depending on what coolant neck you use

my90 08-19-2014 12:14 AM

You are correct, but this is a consolidation thread and I thought it would be good to have it here.
The jumpered fuel pump in my 1990 was instructed by Savington. Dolt ? He seems like he knows what he is doing to me.

curly 08-19-2014 01:44 PM


Originally Posted by Savington (Post 1158403)
Alternator and pulleys
Use a 1994-1997 alternator and pulley. The 1.6 alternator has a different shaft diameter, so a pulley swap is not possible - the entire alternator must be swapped. It may be possible to use the 99-05 ECU with wiring changes and an ECU with alternator control, but few/no PnP ECUs for 1990-1997s will have this feature, so it's easiest to simply use a 94-97 alternator with onboard control.

This is contrary to my experience. We used a new alternator from Autozone, originally bought and installed onto our '90 chassis, with the 1.6 for a number of track days. For the MSM engine swap, we removed the 2-piece 1.6 pulley and small spacer behind it. This spacer was build into the design of the '01 alternator pulley we used. We then found that there's an aluminum lip on the front of the alternator case that the larger 1.6 V-belt pulley doesn't contact. The smaller '01 ribbed pulley, does. 4 screws later we had the front of the case off, and a little grinding took care of the lip. We then bolted up the '01+ pulley, and it lined up with the belts perfectly. After that minor surgery, it was a PNP alternator to the 1.6 wiring (since that wasn't touched), and bolted right on to the MSM motor. It's survived a few hundred street miles and two track days, so I call that successful testing.

Note: when I say '01+ pulley, I'm technically referring to a GarageStar aluminum pulley. However we had an OEM '01 steel pulley on the workbench, and both were dimensionally identical. We also asked Ken at GarageStar for the differences between NA1.8 and NB1.8 pullys, and as far as I remember, they are identical.


Originally Posted by Savington (Post 1158403)
Exhaust manifold and exhaust
Any header from 1994-2005 will bolt up to the head. If you are using a 1994-1997 header, you will need to delete the EGR tube and EGR valve, but you will be able to use a cat and catback exhaust from a 1994-1997 (the exhaust hangar locations are the same for 90-97). Using a 1999-2005 header will allow you to retain the EGR tube, but you will need to have a custom cat pipe built to jump from the 99-05 header flange to your 90-97 catback (you cannot use an NB catback without changing several of the exhaust hangars). If you use a 99-05 header to retain EGR, the 2001+ headers flow much better and are significantly more desirable.

So with a NB OBX header, and '90 RB midpipe, no version (NA1.8 or NB1.8) test pipe will mate the two together?

harrybeachdog 08-19-2014 01:57 PM

FWIW The Jackson Racing 4-2-1 for NB's has you source an EGR pipe from an NA8. This is how I'm handling EGR on my 96 VVT swap.

shuiend 08-19-2014 02:07 PM


Originally Posted by curly (Post 1158888)
So with a NB OBX header, and '90 RB midpipe, no version (NA1.8 or NB1.8) test pipe will mate the two together?

That is correct, at least in OEM form. On the NB's the CAT is welded into mid pipe section that goes from the header back to the cat back near the axle. I am assuming that for the 90 RB midpipe you mean the NA [art that would go from the CAT all the way back and include the muffler.

Dunning Kruger Affect 08-19-2014 02:08 PM

Nooooooooooooooooo noooooooooooooo noooooooooooooooo

The exhaust should match the chassis. If you have an NA, use an NA 1.8L exhaust (read: this means 94-97). If you have an NB, use a year appropriate exhaust for your NB. Alternatively, just make your own test pipe to get the flanges to match up.

harrybeachdog 08-19-2014 02:10 PM


Originally Posted by Dunning Kruger Affect (Post 1158907)
Nooooooooooooooooo noooooooooooooo noooooooooooooooo

The exhaust should match the chassis. If you have an NA, use an NA 1.8L exhaust (read: this means 94-97). If you have an NB, use a year appropriate exhaust for your NB.

Enthuza recommends this too, especially for hanger locations. I talked with him about the best option for a VVT swap car and this is the easiest, bar none.

curly 08-19-2014 02:13 PM

So for a VVT engine in a '90 chassis, I should be using a '94-'97 header, '94-'97 test pipe, and it'll bolt up to the '90 RB cat-back? I was under the impression that the difference between 1.6 and 1.8 exhaust was only the front flange.

EO2K 08-19-2014 02:22 PM

Curly, stop being a cheap bastard and buy some new crap already. :laugh:

freedomgli 08-19-2014 02:41 PM


Originally Posted by curly (Post 1158913)
So for a VVT engine in a '90 chassis, I should be using a '94-'97 header, '94-'97 test pipe, and it'll bolt up to the '90 RB cat-back? I was under the impression that the difference between 1.6 and 1.8 exhaust was only the front flange.

Use the '94-'97 header and '94-'97 test pipe. All USA NA cat-back exhaust systems are the same. The difference between 1.6NA and 1.8NA is the exhaust manifold and catalytic converter.

shuiend 08-19-2014 02:50 PM


Originally Posted by curly (Post 1158913)
So for a VVT engine in a '90 chassis, I should be using a '94-'97 header, '94-'97 test pipe, and it'll bolt up to the '90 RB cat-back? I was under the impression that the difference between 1.6 and 1.8 exhaust was only the front flange.

The different between a 1.6 and 94-97 1.8 exhaust is the front flange on the cat. 1.8 99-2005 exhausts have different hangers and such then the 94-97 1.8 exhausts.

oregonmon 08-19-2014 02:52 PM


Originally Posted by curly (Post 1158913)
So for a VVT engine in a '90 chassis, I should be using a '94-'97 header, '94-'97 test pipe, and it'll bolt up to the '90 RB cat-back? I was under the impression that the difference between 1.6 and 1.8 exhaust was only the front flange.

Yes this our plan, question though, has anyone modified a 1.6 cat to fit in this spot? Or how easy would it be?

Curly is only being cheap on my behalf.:fael:

Savington 08-19-2014 03:06 PM


Originally Posted by my90 (Post 1158734)
I would like to add to this, mostly minor stuff;
the oil pressure sender, specific to the car needs, to be used
the Air Intake Temp wiring needs to tapped into, on the 1990 I found that the Ground Black/LT GR pin 2P & Signal Red/GR pin 2D in the air box harness for the new sensor
the fuel pump needs to be jumped in the diagnostic box for the early cars at least
the exhaust hanger for the down pipe needs to be retained from the VVT
you will need a wide band if you go standalone
you will need an air intake like AEM or K&N
I found it easier to use the entire VVT exhaust system
You will need a means of holding the hood up in the 1.6L cars as the prop rod will not work anymore
I went with AEM-4 and got good tech support from TSE, thank you Sav !

(Mostly) good info, but much of this is covered in the standalone install, so not specifically pertinent to the install/wiring of the engine into the chassis. Two things to note: You cannot use the full OEM 01-05 exhaust system unless you re-weld a bunch of hangars on the catback, and you can definitely retain the hood prop rod, Rover has a CAI and the OEM hood prop fits just fine.


Originally Posted by curly (Post 1158888)
This is contrary to my experience. We used a new alternator from Autozone...

I tried to use the 1.6 alternator when I built Rover and the OEM 1.6 alternator uses a smaller shaft than the 1.8 alternator. 100% incompatible. Perhaps the Autozone unit you used is different, but TBQH using an Autozone alternator is not something I would recommend doing.


Originally Posted by curly (Post 1158913)
So for a VVT engine in a '90 chassis, I should be using a '94-'97 header, '94-'97 test pipe, and it'll bolt up to the '90 RB cat-back? I was under the impression that the difference between 1.6 and 1.8 exhaust was only the front flange.

Yes. 90-97 catback is all the same.


Originally Posted by oregonmon (Post 1158933)
Yes this our plan, question though, has anyone modified a 1.6 cat to fit in this spot? Or how easy would it be?

I would source a 1.8 cat if you can, the 1.6 cat is probably smaller and will choke things down even worse. The ideal unit would be an aftermarket high-flow 94-97 cat.

curly 08-19-2014 03:14 PM

I believe modifying the 1.6 cat would only be for tail pipe sniffer emissions every 2 years, so choking wouldn't be a concern.

Damn, so Ryan, I think you need to return that '99 OBX, and buy a '94-'97 OBX.

oregonmon 08-19-2014 03:27 PM

That's what I bought you silly little boy.

JKav 08-19-2014 03:49 PM

Cool summary. I think I remember reading somewhere that the 01-05 IAC valve wants to operate at a higher frequency than the earlier IAC valve(s), meaning the stock early ecu won't be able to control it. Is this correct?

leboeuf 08-19-2014 03:53 PM

You guys are busy talking about how to stick metal bits together....

What this keyboard cowboy reallllly needs is the part numbers and links to these connectors:
(this could be somewhere in the unorganized disaster "connector witch hunt" thread)
Edit: Apologies to leafy :D. Apparently he put together a nice spreadsheet which is organized (but probably still a disaster :P)
TPS
IAC
Cam Sensor
Crank Sensor
VVT solenoid
alternator 2 pin

Leafy 08-19-2014 04:09 PM


Originally Posted by leboeuf (Post 1158959)
You guys are busy talking about how to stick metal bits together....

What this keyboard cowboy reallllly needs is the part numbers and links to these connectors: (this could be somewhere in the unorganized disaster "connector witch hunt" thread)
TPS
IAC
Cam Sensor
Crank Sensor
VVT solenoid
alternator 2 pin

holy fuck I posted the mother fucking organized an concise fucking spread sheet from that thread on the first fucking page of this fucking thread, dick.

leboeuf 08-19-2014 04:14 PM


Originally Posted by Leafy (Post 1158680)
This link should probably be in this thread. https://docs.google.com/spreadsheet/...sLU8yX2c#gid=0

:rofl:
Thanks brodeo!!
I need concise, to the point titles :D
Edit: And props have been giveth ;)

harrybeachdog 08-24-2014 08:56 PM

The one thing I'll add to this is the EGR valve, for those of us that still need to pass obd2 emissions once a year. The NA8 valve operates differently, has a different connector, but has the same bolt/exhaust openings. Sadly the edge of the valve hits the intake manifold, holding it off enough to not seal. The two choices you have are to either grind the intake manifold and valve edge down a bit, or create a spacer.

Grinding down - Seeing as the valves already have enough inherent issues getting clogged and setting readiness monitors, I opted for grinding the manifold down. I had a spare VTCS mani that was already useless, so I separated the top, drilled through and used a depth gauge at the point right where the EGR valve hits and found there's more than enough material there. I don't like encouraging grinding down manifolds, but it's your pick between that or creating a spacer.

Spacer - For those that would rather opt for a spacer, I went ahead and created a couple to find the right thickness needed. The aluminum I had on hand was in increments of 2mm. I found that 4mm was too small, while 6mm left a visible gap between the valve and manifold. Mazda was kind enough to give us bolts that are plenty long enough to handle all of these. Though, FWIW the NB bolts are a tad bit longer. For my own car I'm grinding the manifold and valve down, but only because I've had my fair share of EGR issues. Hope this helps!

Amellrotts 08-28-2014 02:00 PM

What about the tach driver from the 94 coils when using VVT coils? I have been running a VVT engine in my 94 for a couple years with the 94 coils mounted to the firewall. Now I want to wire up VVT coils and I has an extry wire. What do I do with it? I believe it is the one that drives the tach?

Leafy 08-28-2014 02:06 PM

If you have a standalone you probably have it wired so the ecu drives the tach even on the 94.

curly 08-28-2014 02:17 PM

That's what we're finding on our MSM swapped '92. In order to have a tach with '01+ coils, you need to have a tach output pin on the ECU to go to the cluster.

FYI: For those of you running Gen1 MSPNPs, DIYautotune will do the mod for a tach output pin for $75 once you ship it to them. I believe the schematic for a DIY circuit is floating around here somewhere.

I'm fairly certain Gen2 MSPNPs already have a tach output pin.

curly 08-28-2014 07:33 PM

Note: this thread is meant for standalone ECU replacements, such as MS and AEM.

For those of you wanting to use a stock ECU, please keep the discussion in this thread:

https://www.miataturbo.net/engine-pe...athread-80666/

But to sum up: stock ECU won't see a tach signal with '01+ coils, and it'll kill itself within a few seconds.

Remember, DON'T discuss those issues here.

Ben 08-28-2014 09:12 PM


Originally Posted by curly (Post 1162019)
FYI: For those of you running Gen1 MSPNPs, DIYautotune will do the mod for a tach output pin for $75 once you ship it to them. I believe the schematic for a DIY circuit is floating around here somewhere.

I'm fairly certain Gen2 MSPNPs already have a tach output pin.

Only 90-93 Gen1 MSPNPs do not have a built in tach output. The Gen 1 94-95 and 96-97 already have it built in, as do all models Gen2 and Pro PNPs.

Example tach circuit for 90-93 Gen 1 is shown here:
MS1/Extra Hardware Manual

In most cases, I'd recommend purchasing an aftermarket tach adapter before sending an ECU in to be modified. Cost would be about the same or less and would eliminate down time.

TheBandit 09-04-2014 09:09 AM

In the event that you plan to keep your 94-95 block and simply update to the VVT head, is it still recommended that I update to the crank trigger setup instead of the CAS that is on the original head? I certainly understand that new ignition (in my case I will upgrade to COPS) and VVT actuation will need to be wired in. The throttle body update is suggested, but not a have to. I'm starting to add up the wiring harness needed for the pigtails along with all the sensors and the difference in cost from just getting an entire 01+ engine gets smaller and smaller. Again, this is all assuming the use of MS EM.

NiklasFalk 09-04-2014 09:38 AM

No way to control VVT without the crank sensor, so why keep the CAS?

Leafy 09-04-2014 09:45 AM

And you'll basically need to replace the oil pump in order to get the crank trigger on a 94-95. IIRC the boss is there so if you're a fucking judo master with a hand drill you could drill and tap it maybe.

TheBandit 09-04-2014 11:21 AM

So I might as well just get a complete VVT engine and stop trying to gather the parts to make it work with my 95 block. I'm still educating myself on the differences required to work with VVT. Thanks for the assistance.

Savington 09-04-2014 09:07 PM

You also get an extra point of compression. Lots of good reasons to just source a full longblock.

Updated the OP to include the answer to your question.

joyrider 09-06-2014 11:09 AM


Originally Posted by Savington (Post 1158403)

1994-1997 coils:
+12v:
94-97: Blue
01-05: Black/White

trigger cyl 1/4:
94-97: brown
01-05: brown/white

trigger cyl 2/3:
94-97: brown/yellow
01-05: black/yellow

ground:
94-97, 01-05: black

1999-2000 coils:
+12v: Black/white

trigger cyl 1/4: Brown/Yellow

trigger cyl 2/3: Brown

ground: Black

Now, do we have to put capacitor as NB2 OEM harness ?

Savington 09-08-2014 12:04 PM

99-00 coils are garbage, you're much better off retaining your stock 1.6/1.8 coils if you are doing a BP4W swap. I specifically left 99-00 coil info off the OP for that reason. :)

my97miata 09-08-2014 04:58 PM

Or you can just go with the Fab9 COP's.

Savington 09-08-2014 05:09 PM

Or you can use the perfectly adequate stock ignition system, vs. upgrading to a system with no benefits.

harrybeachdog 09-08-2014 05:36 PM


Originally Posted by my97miata (Post 1165237)
Or you can just go with the Fab9 COP's.

What I did. They just look purty. Stock bottom end and they're fine, but testing DIYauto has done shows they're not ideal for big boost.


Originally Posted by Savington (Post 1165242)
Or you can use the perfectly adequate stock ignition system, vs. upgrading to a system with no benefits.

They fit in the hole. Every double meaning intended.

Savington 09-08-2014 05:44 PM

Stock coils fit in the hole too...

harrybeachdog 09-08-2014 05:49 PM

I thought the VVT vc had smaller holes for the wires?

Savington 09-08-2014 05:51 PM

It does, and the stock VVT coils fit into the VVT holes. The 99-00 has the same holes as the 90-97, so you would just use stock 90-97 coils instead of the 99-00 coils. If you're going to go aftermarket, skip the fab 9 parts and go straight to an LS2 Truck coil setup.
  • If you are swapping a BP4W into a 90-97, use stock 90-97 coils and wires (preferably the 94-97 coils)
  • If you are swapping a BP6D (VVT) into a 90-97, use VVT coils and wires and wire them per the original post's instructions

harrybeachdog 09-08-2014 05:52 PM

1 Attachment(s)
https://www.miataturbo.net/attachmen...ine=1410213166

Ben 09-08-2014 06:55 PM


Originally Posted by harrybeachdog (Post 1165253)
What I did. They just look purty. Stock bottom end and they're fine, but testing DIYauto has done shows they're not ideal for big boost.

A 3rd party has tested the coils; we have not. The 3rd party test was not flattering. I have no horse in the race, other than the vendor was blaming my ECU for the troubles with his product.

greddygalant 09-08-2014 07:52 PM


Originally Posted by Ben (Post 1162169)
Only 90-93 Gen1 MSPNPs do not have a built in tach output. The Gen 1 94-95 and 96-97 already have it built in, as do all models Gen2 and Pro PNPs.

Example tach circuit for 90-93 Gen 1 is shown here:
MS1/Extra Hardware Manual

In most cases, I'd recommend purchasing an aftermarket tach adapter before sending an ECU in to be modified. Cost would be about the same or less and would eliminate down time.

Ben,
My 92 is the one curly mentioned, would you happen to have a link to an aftermarket tach adapter that would work for such an application?


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