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Old 02-26-2011, 01:30 PM   #241
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Originally Posted by dgmorr View Post
Thanks for the link to the wire.

What is an EDM shop? I'm looking around locally for a machine shop that can drill them. I'm not in this type of industry at all, so I'm not exactly sure which shop can or cannot handle them...even if they say they can.
Electrical Discharge Machining. You use a tinyass wire to burn your way thru metal. Simple way to put tiny holes in hard metals that would otherwise be impossible to drill with tradtional machines. Like you can do .020 holes thru fully heat treated things and really deep holes, etc.
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Old 02-26-2011, 01:33 PM   #242
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Were those regular SS bolts that you had come loose, hustler?
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My progression:
  1. standard bolt: failed, broken turbine
  2. Nimonic bolts: failed so bad they fell out in one session, almost damaged the turbine
  3. stardard bolt, SS wire: failed and stretched wire, almost damaged the turbine
  4. standard bolt, inconel wire: failed after 4-6 days, failed safe, drove the last session and 5-hours home without damage
  5. tial provides inconel bolt with no holes for wire: called TiAL, claimed they did't read my instruction and don't have equipment to drill inconel. I'm not pleased of the lack of support. If I could go back in time and buy Turbosmart parts with a 4-bolt flange and inconel bolts I would
I don't regret the v-band, I haven't found a solution for my extreme duty yet. Apparently I'm "that" hardcore. I'm going to Austin for the weekend now, feel free to debate this and I appreciate everyone's input. Right now the sittuation isn't bad enough to throw the baby out with the bath water, but I'd like a zero-maintenance solution...that may be unreasonable considering I race a turbo car and want to do no maintenance.

Really, thanks to everyone for their input. I never thought that by the time I was 30 (1-more day) that I'd have a car like this with such respectable engineering.
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Old 02-26-2011, 07:55 PM   #243
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Originally Posted by dgmorr View Post
Thanks for the link to the wire.

What is an EDM shop (Electrical Discharge Machining)? I'm looking around locally for a machine shop that can drill them. I'm not in this type of industry at all, so I'm not exactly sure which shop can or cannot handle them...even if they say they can.

Were those regular SS bolts that you had come loose, hustler?
I google searched EDM and made a few calls.

Regular SS and UNWIRED Nimonic.
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Old 02-27-2011, 12:04 AM   #244
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Not having any luck finding a shop here yet. Where do you guys order your regular M6 hardware from? I can't find anything on ATP turbo. Do you source them at local fasterner companies? I'm going to do the standard bolts and inconel wire until I can get the inconel bolts drilled.
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Old 02-27-2011, 01:37 AM   #245
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Not having any luck finding a shop here yet. Where do you guys order your regular M6 hardware from? I can't find anything on ATP turbo. Do you source them at local fasterner companies? I'm going to do the standard bolts and inconel wire until I can get the inconel bolts drilled.
Lowe's in Ameriland.
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Old 02-27-2011, 01:59 AM   #246
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You guys have some nice toys available at your big box stores. damnit
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Old 02-27-2011, 02:05 AM   #247
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You guys have some nice toys available at your big box stores. damnit
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Old 02-27-2011, 03:35 AM   #248
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I twist more than most recommend, to snug the wire up to the outer edge of the bolt head, count the # of twists for future reference, run through the next bolt, then twist to 8-10 twists per inch to increase tension.

Wire tight, break a few to find the limit. You're working with inconel and everything you read on the interweb is about wiring soft SS in light duty applications.
Using the twisting to tension is kind of a waste of wire. I safety wired every one of the hat/rotor combos that went out with our BBK, so by the 12th rotor (48th pair of bolts) I had learned a few things about proper technique. Specifically, what angle to twist the wire at (in relation to the angle it will be used at). You can twist the wire at 1 angle, and then give it a final swooping twist that will fully tension the wire - to the point where I can get the long end of the wire to contour to the edges of the bolt head. Maybe I'll take a video of the next one I do.
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Old 02-27-2011, 06:11 AM   #249
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Maybe I'll take a video of the next one I do.
Please do!
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Old 02-27-2011, 10:40 AM   #250
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Using the twisting to tension is kind of a waste of wire. I safety wired every one of the hat/rotor combos that went out with our BBK, so by the 12th rotor (48th pair of bolts) I had learned a few things about proper technique. Specifically, what angle to twist the wire at (in relation to the angle it will be used at). You can twist the wire at 1 angle, and then give it a final swooping twist that will fully tension the wire - to the point where I can get the long end of the wire to contour to the edges of the bolt head. Maybe I'll take a video of the next one I do.
Fine but the more you twist it, the less it stretches.
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Old 02-28-2011, 12:04 PM   #251
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I checked the 3 tial turbine housings I have here, two .64a/r GT30 and one .63a/r GT28, none of the holes go thru into the gas stream.
Pics of my turbine housing-



You can see on the hole at the 10 o'clock position doesn't go all the way through, but the rest do. Garrett GT28/2560R .64 housing. The 8 o'clock position hole is partly blocked with casting flash.

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Old 02-28-2011, 12:09 PM   #252
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Bolts are back, and could not be drilled on a mill. The other EDM shops all told me they would drill them on the mill, with carbide bits!!! I told them we already tried this and the refused to use EDM.

Now they are going to EDM of Garland because they had a reaction I liked where he immediately said he'd EDM wire drill them.
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Old 02-28-2011, 12:13 PM   #253
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Pics of my turbine housing-
Why are you posting pictures of a garrett housing? We're talking about CHRA's not staying attached to tial stainless vband turbine housings in this thread.
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Old 02-28-2011, 12:14 PM   #254
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Bolts are back, and could not be drilled on a mill. The other EDM shops all told me they would drill them on the mill, with carbide bits!!! I told them we already tried this and the refused to use EDM.

Now they are going to EDM of Garland because they had a reaction I liked where he immediately said he'd EDM wire drill them.


I am doing them for my current & previous customers for $40, anyone else for $80, plus shipping. one ø.062 hole across the flats in each bolt.
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Old 02-28-2011, 12:23 PM   #255
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I am doing them for my current & previous customers for $40, anyone else for $80, plus shipping. one ø.062 hole across the flats in each bolt.
This is why you are "Lord of the Fabricators".
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Old 02-28-2011, 12:28 PM   #256
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I am doing them for my current & previous customers for $40, anyone else for $80, plus shipping. one ø.062 hole across the flats in each bolt.
So does that mean you can do them reliably now? If so go ahead and add that onto my order.
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Old 02-28-2011, 01:05 PM   #257
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Add me to the list. I'll take a set.
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Old 02-28-2011, 01:37 PM   #258
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Tim, will you do it for a 24 pack of beer and a 24 pack of carbide drills?
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Old 02-28-2011, 02:17 PM   #259
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This is why you are "Lord of the Fabricators".
I'm not talking to you. You are too silly in the head.

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So does that mean you can do them reliably now? If so go ahead and add that onto my order.
Ok.

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Add me to the list. I'll take a set.
I'll need your bolts. If you want brandy new ones those used to be $80 too. The old kit that included the stainless hardware and the 3 straps was like $30...there a good chance if I order the $30 kit part number now it will come with the expensive bolts. Tial is silly like that.

EDIT: not sure how different drilling "used" bolts will be but if it's different, price will be different. Sorry :(

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Tim, will you do it for a 24 pack of beer and a 24 pack of carbide drills?
Depends on the beer. Summer's coming up and I drink plenty of corona light. And I didn't have good luck with the one carbide drill I tried...basically exploded on contact. cha-ching! haha.
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Old 02-28-2011, 04:28 PM   #260
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Hustler,

Have you tried the slowly-rev-in-neutral test to look for obvious resonances?
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