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Old 02-18-2011, 06:38 PM   #81
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Old 02-18-2011, 08:03 PM   #82
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Quote:
Originally Posted by hustler View Post
My progression:
  1. standard bolt: failed, broken turbine
  2. Nimonic bolts: failed so bad they fell out in one session, almost damaged the turbine
  3. stardard bolt, SS wire: failed and stretched wire, almost damaged the turbine
  4. standard bolt, inconel wire: failed after 4-6 days, failed safe, drove the last session and 5-hours home without damage
  5. tial provides inconel bolt with no holes for wire: called TiAL, claimed they did't read my instruction and don't have equipment to drill inconel. I'm not pleased of the lack of support. If I could go back in time and buy Turbosmart parts with a 4-bolt flange and inconel bolts I would
I don't regret the v-band, I haven't found a solution for my extreme duty yet. Apparently I'm "that" hardcore. I'm going to Austin for the weekend now, feel free to debate this and I appreciate everyone's input. Right now the sittuation isn't bad enough to throw the baby out with the bath water, but I'd like a zero-maintenance solution...that may be unreasonable considering I race a turbo car and want to do no maintenance.

Really, thanks to everyone for their input. I never thought that by the time I was 30 (1-more day) that I'd have a car like this with such respectable engineering.
Hmmm, sounds more like a vibration issue than only a stretch issue as the temp resistance of nimonic is probably at least as good as inconel.
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Old 02-18-2011, 09:08 PM   #83
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Which bolts are hustler having trouble with? The ones holding the Vband shut between the turbo and the mani, of from turbine to downpipe, between turbo and wastegate, or between wastegate and its outlet pipe?
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Old 02-18-2011, 09:23 PM   #84
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Old 02-19-2011, 01:40 AM   #85
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Quote:
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Originally Posted by hustler View Post
My progression:
  1. standard bolt: failed, broken turbine
  2. Nimonic bolts: failed so bad they fell out in one session, almost damaged the turbine
  3. stardard bolt, SS wire: failed and stretched wire, almost damaged the turbine
  4. standard bolt, inconel wire: failed after 4-6 days, failed safe, drove the last session and 5-hours home without damage
  5. tial provides inconel bolt with no holes for wire: called TiAL, claimed they did't read my instruction and don't have equipment to drill inconel. I'm not pleased of the lack of support. If I could go back in time and buy Turbosmart parts with a 4-bolt flange and inconel bolts I would
Are the bolts backing out due to vibration, or yielding due to heat? I'm guessing the former, because your EGTs would have to be nuclear to yield/relax the inconel bolts holding the Thsg to the chra.

In which case, address the vibration issue.
I will install the iconep bolts when I get them drilledfor wire. Vibration mitigation is still a mystery to me but I'm working on it.
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Old 02-19-2011, 02:01 AM   #86
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So what's the difference between what you're running and what someone like Savington is running? Are others with a similar setup having issues?
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Old 02-19-2011, 03:16 AM   #87
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I'm almost positive that they are on the same setup. I have v-band slip in brace idea, call me when your fist deep in it drunk on Texas wine on your Birthday and I'll explain.
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Old 02-19-2011, 03:45 AM   #88
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sav has a slightly larger turbo and e85. both lower temps. by how much I don't know
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Old 02-19-2011, 04:11 AM   #89
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Hustler, will you please confirm that these are the bolts that hold the turbine housing to the CHRA. We know what these bolts are made of, we know how they've failed, we know where they came from, we know who makes them - but there have been at least 3 people that have no idea WHERE these bolts go - (and have asked specifically for you to tell us which bolts these are). From what I've read (and assuming these are the turbine-CHRA bolts), there is nothing you can do to stop the problem by supporting the turbine housing/exhaust with any kind of steel/aluminum/unobtanium/testicletanium/etc. Only a better bolt, or a way to fix the CHRA to the turbine housing/remove stress between the CHRA/turbine housing can really solve your problem.

/rant
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Old 02-19-2011, 04:46 AM   #90
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Get a v-band turbo
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Old 02-19-2011, 05:12 AM   #91
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Fooger, he's trying to reduce vibration, they're not stretching like most people's manifold-turbo bolts, they're backing out. Hence his want for drilled inconel bolts, except they're very hard to drill. Literally.
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Old 02-19-2011, 08:28 AM   #92
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Since my previous post was ignored, I'll repaste my post here, in entirety:

A few comments, some OT and some not.

Aren't these cranes meant to support the weight of the turbo and also keep the manifold from cracking? I don't think that their intended purpose is to keep bolts from coming out because of vibration. If the whole manifold plus turbo resonates on it's own, the crane might help, but with a crane, you'll now have the resonation from the block transmitted even more than before.

Have you tried resbonding your turbine bolts?

OT: Why keep your lower timing belt cover but not the upper?

P.S. You can install the ATI damper with the motor in the car no problemo. I have a how-to in my build thread. I think someone was selling a used one here for $400 recently.
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Old 02-19-2011, 09:58 AM   #93
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Yes, the bolts at the XHRA/turbine housing are failing, Savington and I still suffer from this although it's a managable suffering, hopefully someone will drill these new inconel bolts for me and the problem will go away with safety wiring.
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Old 02-19-2011, 10:07 AM   #94
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Quote:
Originally Posted by curly
Fooger, he's trying to reduce vibration, they're not stretching like most people's manifold-turbo bolts, they're backing out. Hence his want for drilled inconel bolts, except they're very hard to drill. Literally.
I think the vibration is stretching the bolts, how else could the safety-wire stay in place and the CHRA come loose?

I think it's a good idea to help stop this vibration to extend the life of my turbo parts. I'm very turned-on to the MSM style brace and hopefully a way forward will come to me; my turbo sits below the engine mounts, so close in fact that I can put in one of the engine mount bolts which provides a challenge.
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Old 02-19-2011, 10:12 AM   #95
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The upper timing belt cover stuff is gone because it and the valve cover were damaged as this engine came from a severely wrecked car. It's nice though, I always know if it's in time or not without disassembling anything.

The idea of pulling the sway bar, radiator, intercooler, and possibly ducting to do a timing belt job is unatractive with the ATI damper. The short life of Miata timing belts doest help it's case either.
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Old 02-19-2011, 10:13 AM   #96
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Are you sure theyll back out once you've solved the stretching problem? Sounds like you haven't tried the inconel bolts.
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Old 02-19-2011, 10:27 AM   #97
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Quote:
Originally Posted by curly
Are you sure theyll back out once you've solved the stretching problem? Sounds like you haven't tried the inconel bolts.
Bingo. I will not try the bolt until I can safety wire it. I simply cannot afford another $450 CHRA-exchange right now. After this root canal and crown, this car needs to continue "acting right" for a while.
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Old 02-19-2011, 11:09 AM   #98
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Quote:
Originally Posted by hustler View Post



Bingo. I will not try the bolt until I can safety wire it. I simply cannot afford another $450 CHRA-exchange right now. After this root canal and crown, this car needs to continue "acting right" for a while.
so try one or two at a time.
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Old 02-19-2011, 12:06 PM   #99
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Bingo. I will not try the bolt until I can safety wire it. I simply cannot afford another $450 CHRA-exchange right now. After this root canal and crown, this car needs to continue "acting right" for a while.
so try one or two at a time.
Been there, done that with nikonix bolts. It's a recipe for turbine death.
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Old 02-19-2011, 02:48 PM   #100
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Quote:
Originally Posted by hustler View Post
hopefully someone will drill these new inconel bolts for me and the problem will go away with safety wiring.
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hopefully someone will drill these
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someone will drill

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Have you tried nordlocks?
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