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Just so that you guys can have a idea of the things around here (Portugal)7
Miata 2.0 PHRT base price : 24,800 € / 31,102 USD VAT: 7,315€ / 9,173 USD ISV (another tax based on the CC and CO2) : 7,007€ / 8,787 USD Total: 39,122€ / 49,061 USD And now the shocking part. Average salary in Portugal: 984 € / 1,234 USD :sad2: |
If I take the list prices here (with all taxes included, don't care to separate them)
Cheapest 1.8 softtop $30k Cheapest 2.0 PHRT $40k Cooper S cabrio is $35k Removing sales tax for comparison gives $24k, $32k and $28k respectively. I would hope that ND is priced about the same as the NC, the improvements is just to improve the product, not to make it go elsewhere on the the premium/sporty scales. Edit: I could have read the guesstimates from the Paris show... :facepalm: ND 1.5 with 130bhp, $26.5k before sales tax. Extrapolating would mean the 2.0 would be around $35k, spot on the Cooper S Cabrio. |
Originally Posted by Dunning Kruger Affect
(Post 1173107)
I'm taking it with a grain of salt because it's a random dude off of mnet that isn't Mark Booth.
If those numbers are true, I suspect it will be a huge sales flop. |
Also the dude reporting it, along with a few other people, are laying it thick with the NC love and how the NC is the best Miata, etc.
One of them balked at the price and then mentioned his 25AE in the next sentence (the MSRP was $32k). |
Man, what the hell? I was hoping for Focus ST prices, not Mustang V8! The 155hp, maybe I can overlook depending on how it drives. But over $30K for a base soft top?? I can swing $23-25k out the door, but $31-32k when all is said and done? Doesn't the 2014 start around $23,xxx? Why such a boost in price?
If they don't sell any new ones then I am screwed on buying a 3 year old, ~$15-17k miata :(. |
I don't know about MSRP, but locally i can get a Club PRHT out the door for about $26k.
Have considered it. Many times. The NC3 is such a nice car. |
What's happened with this thread, it's turned into m.net.
Where are the hard facts and supporting evidence? Is any of this even f'real? |
Originally Posted by EO2K
(Post 1173118)
If the above is to be believed
ND ~ 155hp/148ft-lbs ~ 2300lbs ~ $30,000 And they are comparing it to... Cooper S Convertible ~ 181hp/177ft-lbs ~2800lbs ~ $28,700 BMW Z4 sDrive28i ~240hp/260ft-lbs ~3300lbs~ $48,950 Scion FRS ~ 200hp/151ft-lbs ~ 2758lbs ~ $25,470 Audi TT ~ 211hp/258ft-lbs ~ 3340lbs ~ $43,350 (These are "starting at" MSRP prices and specs from the manufacturers websites for current models, so I assume 2015 at this point in the year) I did some meaningless quickie back of the napkin calculations... Dollars per HP: ND - $193.5/hp CS - $158.6/hp Z4 - $203.9/hp FRS - $127.3/hp TT - $205.4/hp Power to weight (hp/lbs): ND - 0.067 CS - 0.065 Z4 - 0.073 FRS - 0.073 TT - 0.063 Then Mazda has a LOT of work to do Someone with more time has already compared miata prices adjusted for inflation. The NC is cheaper than the original. I wouldn't be surprised if the ND pretty close to that. I would seem Mazda isn't piling on the profit margin (or at least not by increasing the cost to the customer). Obviously there maybe more attractive cars now (depending on what you want), but the Miata has never really looked spectacular on paper. |
Once it has an LT1 in it nobody will car and Jeremy Clarkson will spooge himself.
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My brand new Motor Trend from today has new pictures of the MX5, confirms the weight drop and says that the engine will be a....they don't say. :vash:
Again for me, SkyActiv technology is phenomenal but it remains to be seen how easy it will be to add performance. |
Originally Posted by cordycord
(Post 1173567)
My brand new Motor Trend from today has new pictures of the MX5, confirms the weight drop and says that the engine will be a....they don't say. :vash:
Again for me, SkyActiv technology is phenomenal but it remains to be seen how easy it will be to add performance. |
They did, cordycord has a hard time reading. I mentioned that on page 25 or 26.
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Originally Posted by Dunning Kruger Affect
(Post 1173614)
They did, cordycord has a hard time reading. I mentioned that on page 25 or 26.
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We're all distracted by the high speed rail euphoria.
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I want to ride the 新幹線 so bad.
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Can't read, too busy paying $12/gallon for fuel in Australia.
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MX-5 1,8l softtop 41.150,00 USD
MX-5 2.0l PHRT 61.770,00 USD 1 galon premium gas 8,88 USD Basemodel Tesla S 72.180,00 USD Electrical cars are exempt from all taxes even VAT, and do not pay road taxes, toll on tollroads and free on most feries. They have reserved parking spaces with charging in most city centres. Not surprising Norway is the second largest market for electric cars. Even though we are only 5.5 million here. |
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So, what about that second-to-last statistic, where people in the US have 14% LESS disposable income after taxes than the US?
Course if you end up with 14% more income after taxes but cost of living is overall 25% higher then you're still worse off... How about that 2016 Miata? It's going to be fantastic. It will need more power. |
Originally Posted by turbofan
(Post 1173824)
How about that 2016 Miata? It's going to be fantastic. It will need more power.
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Originally Posted by EO2K
(Post 1173825)
Everything needs more power. :party:
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:eek:
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3 Attachment(s)
Mnet is just straight up conspiracy theories now:
Attachment 238794 Attachment 238795 Attachment 238796 |
Love that. The NC makes 8 more hp than stated, yet he takes a pulled-out-of-ass stated number to prove the ND will be slower.
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well you are quoting a guy with Azenias and "apex" dampers. I am not wondering...
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....."I can use DI for lowering intake charge from supercharger kit i plan to get."
WUT. Holy just... i cant. |
I'm really glad that there are all of these tuning options for the ND already.
Personally, I'm most excited for the TRD supercharger. |
Someone at TRD must be going "WTF!?" this morning with all the phone calls about the ND supercharger kit :rofl:
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Originally Posted by concealer404
(Post 1173933)
....."I can use DI for lowering intake charge from supercharger kit i plan to get."
WUT. Holy just... i cant. |
Originally Posted by Full_Tilt_Boogie
(Post 1173953)
Direct Injection is exactly like e-cool, bro!
I kinda want to head over there, quote that post, and just reply with "Tom?" |
Originally Posted by Dunning Kruger Affect
(Post 1173935)
I'm really glad that there are all of these tuning options for the ND already.
Personally, I'm most excited for the TRD supercharger. |
LOL. Sarcasm is sarcastic.
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Originally Posted by hornetball
(Post 1174371)
LOL. Sarcasm is sarcastic.
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Actually DI is kind of like lowering intake temps. Well intake temps will be the same but since you are not compressing fuel and air in the combustion chamber preignition only occurs if fuel timing is too soon. Or that's the theory anyway.
Tons of potential for tuning with DI. Especially with dual variable cams. Now you don't have to squirt fuel before/during intake valve opening for it to be useful. You could squirt a little near TDC and maybe a little more with the piston on the way down. Or while the exhaust valve is open. Wanna keep your turbo spooled off throttle? Of course just speculating here but most of this thread has been just that. |
I wonder who will be 1st to market with carbs and e-cool for the ND.
Gotta control that TRD supercharger kit somehow. |
Yep! You are talking about a "stratified" injection. Basically you get to inject right when you want ignition, thus avoiding detonation. The regular type of injection is commonly known as homogenious injection. there are some downsides to stratified injection but most of them are limited to cold start driveability issues. Well, that and you need a very specialized piston design. regardless, it doesn't actually provide any extra cooling like the guy said (and you corrected). But it kinda has the same effect.
Very cool stuff, but very hard to calibrate haha.
Originally Posted by williams805
(Post 1174408)
Actually DI is kind of like lowering intake temps. Well intake temps will be the same but since you are not compressing fuel and air in the combustion chamber preignition only occurs if fuel timing is too soon. Or that's the theory anyway.
Tons of potential for tuning with DI. Especially with dual variable cams. Now you don't have to squirt fuel before/during intake valve opening for it to be useful. You could squirt a little near TDC and maybe a little more with the piston on the way down. Or while the exhaust valve is open. Wanna keep your turbo spooled off throttle? Of course just speculating here but most of this thread has been just that. |
Big trucks have been using DI for many decades. They run super high compression.
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Originally Posted by DaveC
(Post 1174498)
Big trucks have been using DI for many decades. They run super high compression.
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Originally Posted by Leafy
(Post 1174499)
They're also diesels.
Even easier to play with as a shade tree mechanic. But that will be in ND2 or NE :) |
Originally Posted by NiklasFalk
(Post 1174519)
Which is Mazda's next aim, Dieseling on petrol with full control. 18:1 in CR is just normal.
Even easier to play with as a shade tree mechanic. But that will be in ND2 or NE :) |
Originally Posted by Leafy
(Post 1174521)
I just had a small stroke while trying to think about the engineering required to make that work for a 100k mile engine life. Dem cylinder pressures and temperatures.
Good luck analyzing that with a wideband in the tailpipe :D I have of course no idea at all about what the real tuning key for DI petrol is... Oh, well, with time and enough failures, someone will find some power by messing with some tables. |
Normal spark ignition DI gas engines already really depend on injection timing. For example, once HP Tuners unlocked that table for injection timing on the DI turbo solstice and cobalt motors the amount of power and torque made on e85 skyrocketed for people who knew what they were doing.
But doing compression ignition with normal pump gasoline... |
Originally Posted by Leafy
(Post 1174558)
But doing compression ignition with normal pump gasoline...
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Originally Posted by NiklasFalk
(Post 1174556)
What about having PWM injection, starting the burn lean and then feed the flame as it progresses.
Good luck analyzing that with a wideband in the tailpipe :D I have of course no idea at all about what the real tuning key for DI petrol is... Oh, well, with time and enough failures, someone will find some power by messing with some tables.
Originally Posted by Leafy
(Post 1174558)
Normal spark ignition DI gas engines already really depend on injection timing. For example, once HP Tuners unlocked that table for injection timing on the DI turbo solstice and cobalt motors the amount of power and torque made on e85 skyrocketed for people who knew what they were doing.
But doing compression ignition with normal pump gasoline... They are trying to develop. This is the first mainstream article I saw about a year ago... Hyundai Developing Gasoline-Burning Compression-Ignition Engine |
Originally Posted by williams805
(Post 1174677)
Some manufacture do the lean initial injection with follow up fuel.
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The LNF cobalt has a cam driven secondary fuel pump IIRC, R56 mini's also have a secondary mechanical driven pump, but I don't think they push the pressures of the LNF.
Mini runs 5 bar in tank, 50 on the block IIRC. |
Originally Posted by sixshooter
(Post 1174724)
High pressure common rail diesel engines have been doing this for a few years now for the sake of meeting the newer emissions laws but I didn't realize it was being done in gasoline engines. Pilot injection, plus the better atomization due to higher pressure injection, was good for a 15% or better increase in economy in diesels. Does the DI in a gas engine work at very high pressures also?
IIRC idle pressures on the high side can be 300-500 psi. Under load can be in the 2500 psi range. Different manufactures use different pressures but I've read these numbers before. Also I believe a lot, if not all, are using piezoelectric fuel injector, which are differnt than solenoid type found on port fuel injection. |
Uggghhh supercharger non sense. Im usually not the aesthetic whore but the ND REAR makes me flinch when I see it and gives me flash backs of the 06 eclipse.
(in fetal position, thumb in mouth) |
Personally I see a bit more Alfa 4C than Eclipse in the rear. I'll have to see in up close and personal before I pass complete judgement though.
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1 Attachment(s)
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That looks fantastic.
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I just got a chub.
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With some good graphics you can make the best of any shape.
Nice number as well :D Now, who have an urge to make a racer from a NC? My desire dropped quite a bit seeing the ND develop. |
I was about to post a comment about the ND cup car (which I'm loving)
But then I noticed that one of the tags for this thread is "erect injection"... That is all. |
Wonder if Mazda would ever do a Body in White option for the ND. Be easier to turn it into a Prepared car than chopping up a new(ish) street car.
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I'm just glad they fired the Japanese cartoonists that were drawing all of the stupid "faces" for the fronts of all of the cars in their lineup. The Japanese are known for their high tolerance for cute and it is annoying.
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Originally Posted by sixshooter
(Post 1180933)
I'm just glad they fired the Japanese cartoonists that were drawing all of the stupid "faces" for the fronts of all of the cars in their lineup. The Japanese are known for their high tolerance for cute and it is annoying.
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Looks like we might be getting specs this week since the LA Auto Show is going on. Right now it's speculation on specs, but who knows.
I can only hope that this will stop the trite and awful "I PERSONALLY THINK THAT THE MIATA SHOULD HAVE $actual_hp_plus_20 HORSEPOWER AND I WILL WRITE MAZDA A POLITE LETTER VIA THE PONY EXPRESS IF IT DOESN'T MEET MY EXPECTATIONS I'M CURRENTLY CROSS SHOPPING A LEXUS LX470, TOYOTA SIENNA, AND BMW 135I AGAINST THE ND" bullshit on mnet, but I'm naive as fuck. |
Originally Posted by Dunning Kruger Affect
(Post 1183786)
Looks like we might be getting specs this week since the LA Auto Show is going on. Right now it's speculation on specs, but who knows.
I can only hope that this will stop the trite and awful "I PERSONALLY THINK THAT THE MIATA SHOULD HAVE $actual_hp_plus_20 HORSEPOWER AND I WILL WRITE MAZDA A POLITE LETTER VIA THE PONY EXPRESS IF IT DOESN'T MEET MY EXPECTATIONS I'M CURRENTLY CROSS SHOPPING A LEXUS LX470, TOYOTA SIENNA, AND BMW 135I AGAINST THE ND" bullshit on mnet, but I'm naive as fuck. |
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