miataturbo.net-like debauchery thread (about the ND or something)
 

Image: 2016 Mazda MX-5 Miata SkyActiv chassis, 2014 New York Auto Show, size: 1024 x 678, type: gif, posted on: April 16, 2014, 1:14 am - MotorAuthority

My analysis:

First look at the next generation Miata, er..MX5 chassis. Several interesting details. The pic is a RHD chassis. The engine sits further back than the NA/NB, possibly even further back than the NC. This is a true front-mid engine. Electric power steering. Drive by wire throttle body visible on the LHD side, meaning the head flows the same direction as the NC, opposite to the NA/NB. That means that those long runners are not coated headers but probably a plastic intake manifold as is de rigeur. Difficult to get the scale but those runners are very long, well past 14" to valve seat. That means possibly 2nd order resonance tuning. I'm thinking it will be a variable runner length manifold. Still a clockwise engine rotation. The front spindles, control arms and rear spindles appear to be aluminum. Not enough resolution to determine cast or forged. The front spindles are hollow indicating they could be shared with an AWD/FWD platform. COP ignition. Variable intake and exhaust cam timing. The transmission bell housing is blurred in this press photo indicating either the spec will change or Mazda has something tricky to hide there. No dual clutch as it would be too expensive for a car at the SRP the ND will likely have, and there's a shift lever besides. What's comforting to this Miata enthusiast is the same basic architecture as the first Miata 25 years ago. They got it right and have't messed with it. No struts, no transverse engines, no messing with what works to save a few pennies.

-SuperMiata

https://www.miataturbo.net/attachmen...ine=1397671366

I'd be willing to bet Jeffbuc's car is still cleaner.

Electric power steering is not good news, but other than that it looks like were in good shape.
I cant wait to know what the engines puts out and what the curb weight will be. Hopefully it will be a step in the right direction from the NC.

So Emilio, are you going to try to take a page out of the ND's book and try to build an intake manifold for the NA/NB that does something similar? It's a way to get your 13" runners, but it isn't exactly a straight shot.

Looks like the powerplant is a Skyactiv G 2.0L. Hopefully Mazda will do some massaging similar to what they did to the MZR in the NC.

The electric steering in my Mazda2 and in the S2000 are pretty spot on. I wouldn't knock it until you could sit in the car.

Lol. I was amazed at how similar this looks to an na rollerscate. Might have to buy one to reward Mazda for being such an awesome car company. They have brought us all such joy!

I didnt know the S2000 had it.
Its pretty shit in my mustang. Vague. No feedback.

The real problem is what happens when you start modifying stuff. Unlike the dumb, mechanical control system on hydraulically assisted power steering, this is an electrical control system that uses some kind of feedback loop from sensors. With the mustangs, changing bushings in the front suspension or even changing the wheels can mess up the tuning of the racks control algorithm. The manifests itself as an unpleasant oscillation in the steering and the only cure is a special rack from ford racing that is like 2 grand.

Hopefully this wont be a problem with the ND. If it is, at least there is a possibility someone around here would figure out how to fix it with different firmware or a workaround, unlike in the mustang world where they just throw money at the problem and live in perpetual fear of electronics.

Awesome. Glad to see the same basic architecture in place. Hopefully they make it lighter and more powerful than the NC, and hopefully it looks awesome like every miata thus far does (imho).

2016 Mazda MX-5's SkyActiv Chassis Previewed In New York

have to doubt that sub 2000lb claim... NC weighs 2500? 2500-220=2280 I thought the goal was to match the original '90 miata at roughly 1000kg or 2200 lbs.


Either way, substantial weight loss from such a small car in this day of increasing saftey standards is a huge accomplishment.

sub 2k lb? lolol yeah right

I did remember reading about that a few years ago. They mentioned that a little weight loss here and there adds up to more, as the brakes, clutch, etc. can then get smaller and lighter since they will be seeing less force. Sub-2000 I highly doubt, maybe that guy misinterpreted it and meant sub-1000kg.

Leaked pic of ND:

https://www.miataturbo.net/attachmen...ine=1397684790

I hear it has a SOHC dual carb 1.5L

Our gutted NC-FL is still a porky ~2600lbs. No way it's ever going to be <2k. Ever.

The RX8 also had an electric rack. I thought it was pretty good. Remember, electric power steering can be better than normal hydraulic because it gives the engineer more options to tune it to be perfect (or more opportunities to completely flub and make it vague and shitty).

A couple more images. I am surprised in a way how similar parts of it are to the NA design. Front control arms and ppf look very similar. Also that bolt patter better be 4x100.

https://www.miataturbo.net/attachmen...ine=1397697981

https://www.miataturbo.net/attachmen...ine=1397697981

Confirmed a few months ago, it is 4x100. Anxious to see a pre-production car later this year so we can figure out how much wheel/tire will fit under it.

I'm hoping that it can clear 6ULs.

I'm hoping with this coming out that NC's will drop in price by 3-4k :)

I'm hoping with some cutting an hammering it'll take 315s on 17x11s.

How is that thing "a chassis" just because it has a PPF that keeps the gearbox aligned with the diff?

Well its not a body is it?

The BRZ electric steering is quite nice in my not so expert opinion, so I'm cool with that. Especially the simplicity of it.

If its under 2000lbs new, can be modded without a high priest and a quantum computer, and costs under 30K, I might just buy one and skip modding the 95.

I highly doubt it will be below 2000 LBs. I bet they got units mixed up and meant that some versions (probably a special package intended for SCCA or Spec Miata type stuff) will be below 1000KGs. I have no trouble believing that. But under 2000LBs with modern safety requirements and the ginormous wheel and tire packages requires some pretty big $$ by Miata standards. And hey, maybe they want to take some space from the vacuum left by the Elise in the 50Kish zone. Would not be the first time a Japanese sports car has moved way upmarket.

They know it needs a minimum of 200HP though. Mostly because the BRZ exists and base model Mustangs don't really suck anymore. So hopefully/probably it revs to 7500 or so with a 2L and does not run out of breath.

I'm curious to see how it stacks up to the FRS. I hope they get the front end right, sister saw a pre-production one being tested in Corpus.

It won't have 200hp. I am guessing around 170hp. It is far lighter than the brz/frs twins and mazda is just going to retune the 2.0 from the 3 for $$ reasons. It will likely have a similar or slightly better power to weight ratio as the brz.

Did you also notice the pretty billet aluminum clampy thing on the front shocks? I'm guessing thats a shock pot adapter from when they were doing development testing. Anyone disagree?

We were a good 2+ seconds a lap faster than the GT86 (or the FRS as you call them) with our 2010 NC-FL on a ~2 minute road course. Same tires, same race. As we add power it'll only become more embarrassing for the FRS. I can imagine the ND will be on par with that.

directional tires suggest miata will be mid-rear engine and fwd.

I see Mazda saw my polished PPF, bastards didn't give me credit!

I'll do a spit take if claimed <2k lbs is achieved.

With rear steer. :rofl: I always liked how shopping carts handled when I push them backwards.

I agree. They don't need to do much to this car to make it faster than an FRS/BRZ. Those cars make 200hp at 7k, but peak torque is 151ft-lbs at 6600rpm. The 155hp at 6000rpm and 150lb-ft at 4000rpm of the 3's engine running 87 octane is already not far off; and has a better power curve. And that car is running this header:

https://www.miataturbo.net/attachmen...ine=1397771272

I expect a much less restrictive design, thanks to the longitudinal mounting, for the miata. Not sure if the short tubes shown on the chassis actually represent anything from the final car.

With the ND weighing around 2300lbs, they need 167hp to match the BRZ. The extra compression, direct injection and dual VVT on the 2.0L will get it past that; hell, the 2.0L MZR is already there.

The crank is already forged in the 2.0L SA engine; I hope they raise the rev limit past 6800 for the ND.

I disagree. From the pictures I'm seeing, the "clampy thing" is probably to hold the dampers in place on the display. :noob:

I'm going to go with your answer. Cause I noticed them in the rear where its way more obvious that they go to the stands.

I have to admit, the way the rollerskate looks like the younger sister of the NA/NB makes me a little chubby.

I think they would generate a lot more interest if they offered a fastback option. But they won't because then it would be competing with the RX8 which would be unacceptable in Japan. (They'd be better off just killing the RX8.)

Those clamps are parts of the supports needed for display purposes. They hold the shocks in more-or-less the correct orientation. Otherwise they'll fall over.

Edit: oops, midtenn beat me to it.

They've got nothing on you Jeff. They should have consulted with your for the display. LOL.

Holy shit, I never thought I'd see a more convoluted and restrictive exhaust design than the stock particulate filter/n0x trap on my Jetta. Amazing what gains you get from removing that junk.

Right? Don't they know all you need is a chair from the 80's to display your shit!

regarding the engine comments above, I thought I read somewhere that they were considering moving to a 1.3T not the 2.0n/a ? Or is that just speculation at this point?

I forgot if I've read it somewhere else, but a semi-related question for Emilio:
Why don't you race NC's? Besides price-performance ratio vs NA/NB of course.

I don't like the way they feel, drive or look. Ride motions feel weird, bounce frequencies and roll center axis feel out of sync with wheelbase. That might stem from geometry optimized for a 500lb heavier RX8 with a 15" longer wheelbase, dunno. Can't feel the rear contact patches as distinctly as the NA/NB. My Z06 feels more like a big NA to me than NC. NC is good and also quick, just not my cup of tea.

That header is actually pretty badass. It's a tuned 4-2-1 dealie that, due to the additional scavenging it provides, allowed the compression ratio of that engine in the Mazda 3 to be bumped from 12:1 to 13:1 and still only need 87 octane.

It might look odd with the curlicues it makes, but that header works really well.

I did some research the other day on the NC, and I didn't know that it had aluminum A arms up front and aluminum knuckles in the rear. The multi-link are all tubular links, too.

A bunch of people were shitting on the idea that the ND could lose a not insignificant amount of weight over the NC, and Emilio touched on it: the ND isn't being built from the ground up as a shared platform for a much bigger car. I remain hopeful for the best for a 2200ish curb. I mean, my 1994 Miata had a curb of 2290lbs and my 2012 Mazda2 has a curb of 2306lbs; 2200-2300lbs should be doable.

That touch on complicating issues for the aftermarket on these engines, the margin for errors become smaller.
Not to say that "Mazda knows best", but when the compromise have less margins and needs better control, running things with a half-assed tune will work less well (a low CR BP can survive a lot in comparison).
Whats the aftermarket for the current Mazda3/6 engines (asking without even searching...)?

Imagine when Mazda gets their 18:1 SkyActiv2 engines out there (but that's several years after the ND), things will behave very differently and a BP will be very old-school.

BP was old school when it was released in '94

The S2000's "X-bone"(?) chassis - how come the ND and other cars don't use it? What are its downsides?

I'm guessing weight, but that's a completely wild guess :P s2k are a bit on the heavy side for their size.

Honestly with the NC dropping in price after the ND release, i think i'd go with the NC > s2k and modify the NC a bit. Those 2.5 swaps are looking tasty.

If the ND looks anything like the mess that is the NC under the hood, I'll never want it either.

I agree with stealth, I love the simplicity of the na/nb. I've never had huge problems with working on the car. Well until I had to remove the stock downpipe off my msm..

Especially considering Honda was doing this with a 1.8L at roughly the same time.

https://www.miataturbo.net/attachmen...ine=1399389574

Admittedly it did come at a significantly higher price tag.

+1
After autocrossing a C6 Z06 I had the same revelation; of all the car's I've driven that one felt the most like a bigger miata - very similar in responsiveness, rotation, turn-in manners... I was pretty surprised.
Lotus Elise, NC, s2k, etc... all the stuff people 'think' would be similar to a NA/NB feel and behave distinctly non-miata.

-Ryan

I wouldn't get too upset about electric steering. The first use of electric steering was on the Suzuki Cappuccino and it worked well there. At the cost of a little more output in the alternator that might weigh a pound more, the power steering hydraulic pump and lines could be removed, so it was a legitimate weight savings.

Your ban is coming in 3......2....

All the S2K driving I've done has been on the street and it feels like an overweight Miata as far as regular driving is concerned. I would love to auto-x one and see what it's like.

As far as turbo goes, nice to see the alternator on the cold side. Opens up some room for the manifold. Alternator placement on the NC is making manifold design pesky.

Current speculation is saying that the ND reveal is going to be at Mazda's at Mazdaspeed Speedway Laguna Seca, and there's a nonzero chance Mazda will pull what they did for the Mazda6 by selling it in January 2015 as a 2016 model.

There's some documentation talking about delivering two new Skyactiv models to market before March 31, 2015. The ND could fit the bill.

That's the perfect place!

One good thing about the RX going away is the the Miata is now Mazda's lone halo/sports car. I always thought that having both the RX and the MX in the past was diluting Mazda's resources too much.

would rather they stuck with a coupe honestly. A mazda rwd coupe in the price range of the miata...at least we can dream of it.

An optional structural roofed coup on the MX would not hurt, especially a club sport version.
Dreaming of a low volume version selling at a loss, but probability is null. :-P

10/10 would buy. I've already limited myself to PRHT versions. Never was a big convertible roof fan.

This is some exciting news! can't wait for the next generation miata

That's kind of what I was getting at. If the MX is the only true sports car product, then Mazda could do a coupe without robbing sales from an RX line. Not that they would necessarily, but it becomes much more viable.