miataturbo.net-like debauchery thread (about the ND or something)
Senior Member
Joined: Oct 2011
Posts: 842
Total Cats: 415
From: Northridge, CA
The #0001 Blackbird Fabworx ND RZ roll bar came off the jig yesterday
Warpage control measures proved themselves highly effective and the bar went into the Goodwin car with ZERO issues, all the holes lined up perfectly and the whole thing fell right into place.
It will go to powder coating first thing Monday morning.
Stay tuned!
Warpage control measures proved themselves highly effective and the bar went into the Goodwin car with ZERO issues, all the holes lined up perfectly and the whole thing fell right into place.
It will go to powder coating first thing Monday morning.
Stay tuned!
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I went to the dyno with Brian this morning to tune my car and see what could be done on the ND with Orange Virus Tuning. Very impressive results, here is his report from Miata.net below.
Matt Wilson of Orange Virus Tuning spent half a day on our Red ND....and the the results are much better than expected. :jump:
Conditions were brutal today with temps starting at 80 F in the dyno room and rising to 85 F and humidity over 50%. Thus, we started with a baseline dyno BEFORE ANY TUNE was added to the car just so we could see how much power is lost today to the weather conditions versus our prior test best results with this RoadsterSport muffler of 145 hp at the wheels. Baseline runs TODAY best of 140 hp in the HEAT and humidity, so figure we are down 5 hp today for the poor weather, figure in cooler conditions the peak numbers would be about 5 stronger.
With an hour of work we reached 15 HP over that base run and I was thrilled...
With another hour of work Matt got it over 20 HP of gain and I was amazed.
With a final hour of work Matt got it over 25 hp above our baseline...and I was blown away.
PEAK TORQUE GAIN OVER 30 FT/LBS...WOW
Car feels great, can't wait for cooler conditions to really drive it hard in the canyons.
Conditions were brutal today with temps starting at 80 F in the dyno room and rising to 85 F and humidity over 50%. Thus, we started with a baseline dyno BEFORE ANY TUNE was added to the car just so we could see how much power is lost today to the weather conditions versus our prior test best results with this RoadsterSport muffler of 145 hp at the wheels. Baseline runs TODAY best of 140 hp in the HEAT and humidity, so figure we are down 5 hp today for the poor weather, figure in cooler conditions the peak numbers would be about 5 stronger.
With an hour of work we reached 15 HP over that base run and I was thrilled...
With another hour of work Matt got it over 20 HP of gain and I was amazed.
With a final hour of work Matt got it over 25 hp above our baseline...and I was blown away.
PEAK TORQUE GAIN OVER 30 FT/LBS...WOW
Car feels great, can't wait for cooler conditions to really drive it hard in the canyons.
Last edited by Lincoln Logs; Sep 12, 2015 at 10:37 PM.
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Senior Member
Joined: Oct 2011
Posts: 842
Total Cats: 415
From: Northridge, CA
Impressive power gains!
Got the RZ on the scale, bar weighed in right under 39 Lbs.
With powder coating and the backing plates which I did not weigh, it will probably come to ~41 Lbs. or so.
For comparison purposes, the factory Aluminum hoops weigh in at just under 15 Lbs., meaning the actual weight gained by switching to the RZ is going to be about 26 Lbs.
Given that the RZ is an SCCA legal DOM Steel roll bar which includes a proper harness bar, allows installation of all the plastics and the full function of the soft top, this is a great compromise and a rather minimal weight gain!
Got the RZ on the scale, bar weighed in right under 39 Lbs.
With powder coating and the backing plates which I did not weigh, it will probably come to ~41 Lbs. or so.
For comparison purposes, the factory Aluminum hoops weigh in at just under 15 Lbs., meaning the actual weight gained by switching to the RZ is going to be about 26 Lbs.
Given that the RZ is an SCCA legal DOM Steel roll bar which includes a proper harness bar, allows installation of all the plastics and the full function of the soft top, this is a great compromise and a rather minimal weight gain!
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Senior Member
Joined: Sep 2013
Posts: 923
Total Cats: 67
Originally Posted by emilio
Actually its the other way around. Plastic is a better insulator, greater thermal inertia and thermal mass. Aluminum dumps what little heat it holds the instant it gets that cool intake air then stays cold.
Originally Posted by Soraia
Heat (energy) travels, cold (lack of energy) doesn't.
So if you put cold air (intake) vs engine bay heat, there's only one way heat will travel. Aluminum will simply allow that much more heat pass through.
So if you put cold air (intake) vs engine bay heat, there's only one way heat will travel. Aluminum will simply allow that much more heat pass through.
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Yeah, I had a brain fart and naturally someone on m.net went right along with it 
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For those not following other forums as closely, we've run into some interesting hurdles regarding power output on the ND.
(This first bit has been posted earlier in this thread but it helps to start with this info for comparison) In short, we started with tuning our Red LE street car. That car had our RoadsterSport midpipe and muffler prototypes, and we brought in Matt from Orange Virus Tuning who specializes in the Skyactive motors. A few hours of tuning netted 165whp:
+25whp and almost 30 ft-lbs in some places with just muffler, midpipe and tune. But then..
We got our hands on the Global Cup Car's full exhaust system, including long tube header. Installed that on our Blue ND track car, excited to see what eliminating the cat in the header would net us. We flew Matt back over here to tune that car, and after hours on the dyno trying every variable with the tune, that car capped out at the same 165whp:
Before diving into the ECU, we dynoed before/after with the GCC full exhaust - and that gave us +10whp and +15 ft-lbs, which is more than we saw from our midpipe and muffler that are on our Red LE before we tuned that, so we know the system is good for more power. What we are running into is a restriction on the intake side of the engine that essentially creates a wall for how much air the motor can flow. I expect we could switch to E85 and see a small additional bump higher, but nowhere near the big % increase we would expect from that fuel until we can find the restriction in the system.
The intake doesn't appear to be the limiting factor, and info from some of our other sources corroborate that. At this point it could be throttle body, intake manifold and/or head, etc. but it will take more digging to find the culprit.
(This first bit has been posted earlier in this thread but it helps to start with this info for comparison) In short, we started with tuning our Red LE street car. That car had our RoadsterSport midpipe and muffler prototypes, and we brought in Matt from Orange Virus Tuning who specializes in the Skyactive motors. A few hours of tuning netted 165whp:
+25whp and almost 30 ft-lbs in some places with just muffler, midpipe and tune. But then..
We got our hands on the Global Cup Car's full exhaust system, including long tube header. Installed that on our Blue ND track car, excited to see what eliminating the cat in the header would net us. We flew Matt back over here to tune that car, and after hours on the dyno trying every variable with the tune, that car capped out at the same 165whp:
Before diving into the ECU, we dynoed before/after with the GCC full exhaust - and that gave us +10whp and +15 ft-lbs, which is more than we saw from our midpipe and muffler that are on our Red LE before we tuned that, so we know the system is good for more power. What we are running into is a restriction on the intake side of the engine that essentially creates a wall for how much air the motor can flow. I expect we could switch to E85 and see a small additional bump higher, but nowhere near the big % increase we would expect from that fuel until we can find the restriction in the system.
The intake doesn't appear to be the limiting factor, and info from some of our other sources corroborate that. At this point it could be throttle body, intake manifold and/or head, etc. but it will take more digging to find the culprit.
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Have you considered it's something inside the factory ECU?
Perhaps a little bit of code to help cap power output for future Spec racing?
I mean, who knows what OEMs are doing with their ECU maps these days.
Perhaps a little bit of code to help cap power output for future Spec racing?
I mean, who knows what OEMs are doing with their ECU maps these days.
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to me it just look like the components had more bias to low-end gains, you hit peak TQ sooner and hold the mid-range MUCH longer, with losses up top. But you hit peak HP sooner.
150tq from 2300-5100 vs. 3200-4600
165hp at 6200 vs. 6650
150tq from 2300-5100 vs. 3200-4600
165hp at 6200 vs. 6650
Last edited by Braineack; Sep 23, 2015 at 03:17 PM.
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Senior Member
Joined: Sep 2013
Posts: 923
Total Cats: 67
It's just that 165whp is the current roadblock no matter what combination of parts you're throwing at it.
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We're sharing notes with LRR. We're all on a bit of a hold on this currently as they're busy right now with events such as Petit LeMans, and we're busy prepping for Miatas @ MRLS. 949Racing will be cracking into this subject as well very soon, so we'll all be working forward together on this.
Last edited by ThePass; Sep 23, 2015 at 03:25 PM.
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Blackbird Fabworx ND GT3 #1
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