samnavy

iTrader: (7)

Went to my first gunshow since being back on the mainland... The Nations Gunshow is one of the largest regular shows in the country..

9mm reman was going for .60c/rd.
.223 reman was .80c/rd.
There was not a grain of powder to be found.
There were almost no Glocks in the building except longslides and weird calibers for exorbitant prices.
I've never seen anybody bring a dog to a gunshow... counted about 10 dogs, just regular dogs on leashes, no attempt at being a fake service dog, plain 'ol pets.
I was looking for some Magpul mag-couplers... found one guy who had one and had the biggest Magpul display in the bldg. He said that since about April, it's been tougher to get Magpul stuff since they shifted a large amount of production over to just making magazines. The upside to that is there were magazines everywhere... 2nd Gen PMAGS were normal prices around $12. 40rd PMAGS were $20. Plenty of LR/SR PMAGs too.
Very little hi-end stuff... no $2000 AR's or $5000 scopes anywhere.
Almost zero Class-3 stuff. None of the usual dealers there selling MG's, and only 2 guys with a small assortment of suppressors.

The market through November will be interesting to watch...

Roda

Here in rural AZ, most gun shops have 20-40% of their normal gun inventory and most of what's left on the shelves are oddballs. Handgun ammo and 5.56 is rare and expensive. .22 is getting hard to find again.

I thought Obama was the best gun salesman we'd ever see, but it appears that 2020 made him look like an amateur.

rmcelwee

iTrader: (1)

I bought a table at a Charleston, SC area gunshow during the Obama years when 22lr was getting hard to find. I would shoot a lot and would just dump 22's in tupperware for easy transport. The night before the show I grabbed handfulls of loose 22 lr ammo and threw it in ziplock bags. I was selling this mix bag of ammo (had paid about 4 cents per round for it) for around $.25 per round. I sold out VERY quickly.

rmcelwee

iTrader: (1)

Oh, so getting back to my percussion rifle... The experts are telling me it is from the 1840's to 1870's. The trigger guard was used by a father/son team who built rifles in PA but I don't think it is original to the rifle (and their rifles were usually half stock and pretty fancy) so my search hit a dead end there. I think finding another rifle with the same plain side plate is where I need to look but I have not found one yet. There is no way that thing got replaced. My plan is to NOT restore or fire it. I am going to put a few screws in it to hold the barrel on and hang it on the wall with the original powder horn and bullet mold. Under it will hang the replica of it that I will be building. This way I get to admire one and take an "identical" one to the range with bullets I cast. When we move to our new house/property in a few years I will take it hunting. I don't know if I can pull it off but mini-projects like shaping a stock from a stick of wood and casting my own brass trigger guard might be too hard for me but that would be a nice goal. Not happy that I threw away a big chunk of brass the other day. Would have been nice to cast the trigger guard from the old brass post office box door that I had. Anyway, I'll buy a 32 cal barrel, stock and hardware soon so I can shoot something (probably can't find powder for it now) and then slowly transform whatever I get quickly to something that more closely matches what Great Grandfather had. Seems like a nice way to do it and a project that will take years to complete and will be enjoyed for years.

shuiend

iTrader: (24)

That is the show out in Chantilly correct? I have used to go to that one regularly from 06-10. Was always fun people watching. There was definitely a shift from pre-Obama to Obama candidate to Obama President. I don't think I ever got any really good deals there.

samnavy

iTrader: (7)

^Yup, I think its the biggest regularly recurring gunshow in the country. There are some that are bigger, but are yearly affairs vice the Nations which happens every other month of more often.

For those of you who follow this thread, you know I love the Savage MKii series .22lr and highly recommend it if you are in the market for a .22lr bolt-gun. I've shot several models of this rifle and have an FV-SR with a lower-end Nikon 3-9x AO scope that I've put several dozen types of ammo through and (like many others) consider mine when combined with CCI SV ammo to be a proverbial tack driver. For about 10 years, Savage had a long-running rebate on MKii's that varied from $25-$50, but hasn't had it several years. In fact, Savage currently has no active rebates of any kind.

https://www.kygunco.com/Product/View...1021_e1d87dfed
But today I saw the FV-SR camo version on sale at KY for $219... so I went to BudsGunShop which is an industry standard to see what things are going for, and found they have the black FV-SR for $239, which makes the camo version a crazy good deal. I know I've seen this camo version for close to $300 before. Passin' it on.

rmcelwee

iTrader: (1)

I also use CCI SV in mine due to the silencer. I got my replacement mags in the mail a few days ago but did not get to try them yet. Those mags are definitely the weak point on the gun. I used my Savage to kill a possum that was messing with my chickens the other day. In a drunken fit of rage I Rambo'd my *** out the door and took him down. Too bad I cut my hand open somehow when I was closing the chickens in the coop. The dried pools of blood look cool on the rifle.

Leafy

iTrader: (1)

That camo savage looks cool. Too bad that factory plastic stock is so terrible, at least compared to my boyds.

BGordon

Not sure if anybody has commented to you on this yet.
I have a fair amount of experience with muzzleloaders similar to the one you have pictured.
That said I could be wrong.
The pictures lack quite a bit of important detail
-but-
to me it appears to be a pieced together muzzle loader from the mid 1900's that was completed and shot a few times then put away in the corner to rust. You can see that it was fired but not properly cleaned due to the roughness on the barrel in the trigger area and inside of the hammer arch where powder residue accumulates.
I built 7 or 8 from parts thru the years. It takes me between 6 months and a year to build one from purchased parts and quite a lot longer to build everything besides the lock and barrel from scratch.

Back then you could buy parts from Pecatonica?; a rough stock blank, various hardware pieces, and a blueprint of a gun to give dimensions and detail.
Lots of people would buy whatever parts caught their fancy without attempting any sort of historical accuracy and this appears to be one of those.

Examples of incomplete and poor workmanship.
You can see on the bottom where the trigger plate sticks below the wood in the area of the trigger guard loop as well as how poorly the trigger guard itself was fitted to the wood.
The trigger guard still has the sand casting roughness that should have been final shaped and smoothed with a file and sand paper before ever being pinned to the wood.
The brass cover on the right side where the lock screw goes thru should be either flush with the wood or proud with a beveled edge around the perimeter and have the face filed smooth.
The nipple was never properly centered on the cap indention, something that is very important to making one shoot reliably.
The wood blank is of the cheapest quality. You can see where the grain is straight at the receiver, which will cause the rifle to split in the wrist area.
Better quality stock blanks look for a place where the grain changes direction so the grain will flow with the lines of the stock or at least rotate the plank before cutting to give some diagonal direction to the grain so it will not split so easily.

One example of a problem with it being an old original weapon is that the trigger guard has 2 finger rests, a style that normally goes with a half stock hunting rifle rather than the full stock.
Another example is the brass plate on the opposite side of the stock from the lock assembly.
The style is for what is normally a Tennessee Poor Boy rifle but it is not even installed correctly.
If you look it was never finished as you can still see the diagonal cutting or filing marks and the screw hole is not centered on the radius.
If you look at the wood on the same side as the brass plate you can see the perimeter edges where it goes from flat to the shaped are rolled with a radius.
That is a large No-No and indicates someone with no knowledge did the shaping of the wood in that area.

I could go on and on but you should be VERY dubious of it being an authentic muzzleloader from the 1800's.

My guess is that somebody built themselves a gun that was originally supposed to mimic the Tennessee Poor Boy style at some point after WW2.
Back then there were not any commonly available muzzleloaders as there was no demand after the advent of cartridges up until states began setting up muzzleloader specific hunting seasons.
Anybody who wanted one was pretty much forced to build one from the parts warehouse that used to run ads in the back of the hunting magazines of the day.
I did my first one when a teenager by ordering a catalog and spending about $75 getting all of the parts to build it.
It took a bunch of lawn mowing to raise the $ back then.
It has lots of indications for it being the Tennessee Poor Boy style reproduction as mentioned above;
lack of forend cap, no fancy carving or inlays, minimal hardware.
Most (but not all) original Poor Boy rifles had a grease hole in the back of the stock near the buttplate while higher dollar muzzleloaders had a brass plate with a hinged plate to hold greased patches. This one does not even have a grease hole.
The set trigger assembly and trigger guard are definitely not the right style for the rest of the rifle.

rmcelwee

iTrader: (1)

Those are very good points and I REALLY appreciate you going through all the time to explain that. My only experience with the rifle is seeing it in a trunk (hidden behind the trunk) in a disassemble condition. This would have been in the mid 70's. My dad said he got it from my uncle's house and that it belonged to his grandfather Long (born 1873) but I have no idea if this story is true. He said the gun was filthy when he got it and it sat on a wall covered in coal soot for years (he cleaned it off when he got possession of it). I am a lurker in a few muzzleloader facebook groups and I will let them see what you said and ask their opinion. It is not that I doubt you, I just want more info on the rifle. Of course, a rifle fired by Abraham Lincoln is a better story than my great uncle building a replica to hang on the wall but both are interesting to me. Knowing more would clear up some mysteries. Again, I appreciate all the info. Thanks!

BGordon

Glad to see that you are interested in something like an old non-functioning muzzleloader.
In order to make a better judgement on the authenticity of the rifle I would need to see some pictures of the stock in letting.
You already have the barrel removed.
Please take a picture of the top of the stock looking down into the barrel channel in the tang and breech plug area to be able to see the wood removal that is normally hidden when the barrel is installed.
Also, remove the lock and take a well lighted close up of the wood where it is inletted for the lock.
Last, take a picture of the tang and rear of the barrel from several angles with particular emphasis on the shape of the tang where it would normally be covered up by the stock. Modern reproductions have a radiused inner face curve while old originals are squared off because they were made from scratch with a file.
Those areas will probably show rough hand chisel marks or perhaps even some radiused marks that indicate the use of a Dremel bit.
Sometimes you will see glass bedding compound on modern reproductions where the wood was inletted too deeply then filled.
It is not shown in your pictures but the front and rear sights are visually important as original sights normally look different from reproductions.
The inner face of the lock could very well have some sort of markings that indicate the maker.
I don’t remember any of the reproduction makers except for Siler but there were only a couple of lock kits available from the 50’s until the 70’s when several companies like Dixie began making commercial reproductions.

The last thing that makes me think it is a post WW2 parts gun is the exceptionally poor figment. I have never seen an original muzzleloader built to such a poor standard. Even trade rifles and muskets had a higher fit and finish when new. The things I see on yours are not wear that you would see on a well used weapon. Additionally, as an old stock ages it dries out over time and the wood shrinks away from metal, leaving a slight but even gap around furniture that you can see. The inland brass side plate does not appear to have that sort of shrinkage to the wood.

rmcelwee

iTrader: (1)

Thanks, I will grab some pictures. I sent dad an email last night and he told me the rifle was old as hell when he was a kid in the 1940's and it always hung on a back room wall of his uncles house. I never saw the rifle until maybe 1975 and it looked to be in the same ancient condition back then. Wonder if it was repaired a bit right before my dad got it? Two people in a musket group commented on my pictures:

the photo here just of the breech of the barrel seems very indicative of an OLD ML shooter due to the amount of erosion seen from extensive shooting use of late 1800s rifles. The bolster appears fairly new as nipple.

parts of the gun are old. A few of the screws are new. there are contours on the stock that just aren't right. It was not uncommon for people with badly worn or broken guns to gather enough for a gun and then restock it or build a frankengun out of scavenged parts. before 1950 there was no place to buy new parts. If you wanted a muzzle loader, you had to buy one or find parts and make one. The lock is not nearly as corroded as the breech area of the barrel next to it. , the drum doesn't fit the cut out in the lock. This tells me the parts came from separate guns. I could be wrong of course, but I suspect a Frankengun made up out of old parts. possibly a frontier gunsmith thing.. It was not uncommon to see such guns.

isaac

Everybody have their election day gear ready? I am still missing an AR-15, but don't know anything about them and it is too late now. Any idea what I should get for a budget AR if/when they get back in stock? Or should I just buy an upper and a lower and piece it together myself?

rmcelwee

iTrader: (1)

I knew someone asked to see some pictures of the rifle but I forgot who. I took some but probably not what you wanted. I'll grab more when I get off work for the week. The guys at americanlongrifle.org said that the replacement stock was from the late 1850's. The stock and trigger guard are from western North Carolina or SE Kentucky. The trigger guard was the type sold in hardware stores at that time. A few pics:

stratosteve

iTrader: (1)

Build your own. It isnt that difficult. Decide what gas tube length you want, and go from there.

BGordon

Thanks for the additional pictures.
They make much more sense than the first pictures.
The age of the pieces are apparent.
Much easier to see that the barrel and breech plug are old original items with modifications done many years ago.
The stock appears to be hand inletted with no signs of any modern tooling.
Just as you originally said it appears that the barrel and stock and lock are older than the rest of the pieces and saw a lot of hard usage.

Put it together and hang it on a wall and enjoy the history that has been carried down within your family.

wackbards

iTrader: (2)

Decided to get into 357/38 sp this year. Got a marlin 1894 & a ruger blackhawk. Blackhawk also came with a 9mm cyl. Fortunately I scored 500 rnds of reload .38. The ammo drought is real.

Mazdaspeeder

Anyone like old stuff? Started in life as a 1901 Izhevsk built Mosin Nagant Model 91, eventually got into hands of Finland and was converted into a 1943 Mosin M39 specifically for the Finnish Civil Guard (SK.Y marker). Then presumably was used by the Finnish Army (SA marker) and given a new stock which doesn’t have the SK.Y markers the original would have, but also explains that they re-sighted the rifle and replaced the front sight (old 7.9mm height struck out on barrel)

I’m assuming this overhaul was during WW2 and the rifle still saw service, cause its got some honest wear and all of the exposed bluing is gone but completely good under the stock. Compared to a regular Mosin 91/30 this has a more precise, shorter and stronger free floated barrel, improved sights, 2 piece stock which is stronger and wider, and a Finnish 2 stage trigger.

There were 10,500 made between 1942 and 1944 for the Civil Guard, compared to like 17,000,000+ total Mosins that exist

Tap photos for higher resolution they show up like potatoes on mobile view for some reason

rmcelwee

iTrader: (1)

Mosins suck

I have a nice Mosin sniper but don't think I have any good pictures of it. You have a nice looking rifle!

Mazdaspeeder

Haha wow you’ve got quite a few there. I’m not in the market but if I saw any Finnish marked out there for a good deal I’d buy it

hows my bore look?