The 18psi MS PNP-Pro questions thread (Attention DIYAutotune)
#141
Thanks for the link, I totally forgot about that thread. (and apologize for re-posting about the calibrations)
And yes, they are NOT shutting off with speed, no matter what speed. I've tested it to 95MPH, and they still didn't shut off. I posted up datalogs that matt looked over, and he was the one that suggested adjusting the programable on/off outputs
And yes, they are NOT shutting off with speed, no matter what speed. I've tested it to 95MPH, and they still didn't shut off. I posted up datalogs that matt looked over, and he was the one that suggested adjusting the programable on/off outputs
#142
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For this fuel pump stuff on returnless NBs, are you saying changing these settings from the vac referenced 43.5psi to fixed pressure 60psi requires a fueling retune? I'm curious why NA settings were used in the base map for an NB.
#143
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And not a gripe at you, but the cooling fan thing is one of my frustrations with MS. There are 2 places you can potentially configure it. that makes zero sense. If the output being used for the fan is in use elsewhere it shouldn't be available in the programmable outputs screen.
You can activate a fan as a general purpose output, but you have less control over multiple conditional shut off strategies and no feed forward idle.
#144
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Thanks for the link, I totally forgot about that thread. (and apologize for re-posting about the calibrations)
And yes, they are NOT shutting off with speed, no matter what speed. I've tested it to 95MPH, and they still didn't shut off. I posted up datalogs that matt looked over, and he was the one that suggested adjusting the programable on/off outputs
And yes, they are NOT shutting off with speed, no matter what speed. I've tested it to 95MPH, and they still didn't shut off. I posted up datalogs that matt looked over, and he was the one that suggested adjusting the programable on/off outputs
Q: How do you *know* that the fan doesn't shut off at speed?
Also, your car has a 3 stage fan system. The cooling fan control would only shut off stage 1, and the other triggers (such as a/c) would keep fans activated.
#146
Go to your project properties and make sure that port status is enabled. Then send an email with msq and datalog showing it. You can reduce the VSS trigger to something low like 30 mph so you don't need to speed.
Q: How do you *know* that the fan doesn't shut off at speed?
Also, your car has a 3 stage fan system. The cooling fan control would only shut off stage 1, and the other triggers (such as a/c) would keep fans activated.
Q: How do you *know* that the fan doesn't shut off at speed?
Also, your car has a 3 stage fan system. The cooling fan control would only shut off stage 1, and the other triggers (such as a/c) would keep fans activated.
https://www.miataturbo.net/megasquir...2/#post1227833
The green "fan" button stays illuminated. Also according to what Matt said, 1 of them shuts off and the other doesn't.
#147
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Here are the logs posted earlier in the thread. (post #101 if it doesn't go there directly) . I can email as well if need be.
https://www.miataturbo.net/megasquir...2/#post1227833
The green "fan" button stays illuminated. Also according to what Matt said, 1 of them shuts off and the other doesn't.
https://www.miataturbo.net/megasquir...2/#post1227833
The green "fan" button stays illuminated. Also according to what Matt said, 1 of them shuts off and the other doesn't.
#148
Question about the MS3 software: Why doesn't the feed forward portion of closed loop boost control have an air temperature compensation table? Same could be asked about open loop control. Boost control can vary drastically with air temp, and that's asking a lot from a set of global PID gains (scalar, no air temp compensation either).
#151
That's asking a lot from simple PID feedback control. Air temp's affect on a turbo is very much a non linear system. When you use the same set of feedback gains in the winter as in the summer, you will inevitably have spikes or lazy response in one season or another. Look at stock PID control on a Subaru and they have feedforward IAT compensation, and air temp compensation for PI gains, and Gain vs Error tables as opposed to scalars. We don't need that level of complexity but a simple air temp table would help a lot.
I am trying to make the car as "set it and forget it" as possible and am running into the lack of air temp compensation here. Also, idle air control initial duty table can only be water temp axis or air temp axis. It really should have both. I had to lose my water temp compensation by flipping the table to an air temp axis. This isn't a big deal but if you want to idle at stock speed without any hot start surging it matters a lot.
Similar can be said for air density compensation. Air density compensation does not have a load component, when any old Hondata system has that. The Megasquirt only uses 1 IAT sensor, so when the IAT sensor heatsoaks you have to start making compromises. Either it runs lean on hot start and surges, or you richen it up on hot start and then go rich under boost. You can rely on closed loop but you're stuck with only 1 set of gains for idle, cruising, and boosting. You're always trading off stability vs response of the system. It requires lots of compromises.
Sorry if it sounds like I am complaining/trying to be difficult... I am working with Ryephile on tuning his turbo build. https://www.miataturbo.net/build-thr...d-80222/page5/
I am trying to make the car as "set it and forget it" as possible and am running into the lack of air temp compensation here. Also, idle air control initial duty table can only be water temp axis or air temp axis. It really should have both. I had to lose my water temp compensation by flipping the table to an air temp axis. This isn't a big deal but if you want to idle at stock speed without any hot start surging it matters a lot.
Similar can be said for air density compensation. Air density compensation does not have a load component, when any old Hondata system has that. The Megasquirt only uses 1 IAT sensor, so when the IAT sensor heatsoaks you have to start making compromises. Either it runs lean on hot start and surges, or you richen it up on hot start and then go rich under boost. You can rely on closed loop but you're stuck with only 1 set of gains for idle, cruising, and boosting. You're always trading off stability vs response of the system. It requires lots of compromises.
Sorry if it sounds like I am complaining/trying to be difficult... I am working with Ryephile on tuning his turbo build. https://www.miataturbo.net/build-thr...d-80222/page5/
#152
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Megasquirt Support Forum (MSEXTRA) ? MS3 Development (View forum)
Where you should probably be bringing all this up. We just use their stuff. Well DIYAutotune develops, but most of us just use what they give us.
Where you should probably be bringing all this up. We just use their stuff. Well DIYAutotune develops, but most of us just use what they give us.
#156
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I'll give you that. :P
IF youre using an intial values table for CL, then a temp correction comp table wouldnt hurt, but it gets you close enough in most conditions that it's really not needed.
IF youre using an intial values table for CL, then a temp correction comp table wouldnt hurt, but it gets you close enough in most conditions that it's really not needed.
#160
Alright, I'm digging up the screenshots I need to make a case for these feature updates.
First, the feedback gains:
The values aren't filled out, but you can see on this AEM infinity tuner default map that the boost control gains are tables of gain vs rpm, rather than global scalars:
The lambda gain is also based on rpm.
The screenshot below shows stock 02-05 16 bit ECU WRX boost controls that are relevent. The first two are initial duty cycle compensation tables for barometric pressure and air temperature. The bottom shows the proportional gain--it is based on error (difference between target and actual boost), so that you can adjust the sensitivity of the feedback depending on how far you are away from the target at any given time.
I'm not saying that it has to be one exact way, as I don't know the effort in developing the code, but I do know that plenty of alternative standalone ECUs and 10+ year old stock ECUs are not relying on global gains for lambda or boost control.
The last thing is the air temperature compensation table for a Haltech Platinum Sprint RE for an Rx-7. This particular code doesn't use VE look up tables (although some other Haltechs do), but the air temp compensation is clearly a 3D table with a load axis. This helps account for the heatsoak issue I mentioned earlier.
First, the feedback gains:
The values aren't filled out, but you can see on this AEM infinity tuner default map that the boost control gains are tables of gain vs rpm, rather than global scalars:
The lambda gain is also based on rpm.
The screenshot below shows stock 02-05 16 bit ECU WRX boost controls that are relevent. The first two are initial duty cycle compensation tables for barometric pressure and air temperature. The bottom shows the proportional gain--it is based on error (difference between target and actual boost), so that you can adjust the sensitivity of the feedback depending on how far you are away from the target at any given time.
I'm not saying that it has to be one exact way, as I don't know the effort in developing the code, but I do know that plenty of alternative standalone ECUs and 10+ year old stock ECUs are not relying on global gains for lambda or boost control.
The last thing is the air temperature compensation table for a Haltech Platinum Sprint RE for an Rx-7. This particular code doesn't use VE look up tables (although some other Haltechs do), but the air temp compensation is clearly a 3D table with a load axis. This helps account for the heatsoak issue I mentioned earlier.