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Old 10-31-2009, 06:07 PM   #101
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Assuming the MAP was hooked up, and the wiring all correct? As ususual, check all the sensors, simple stuff you might have pulled like spark plug boots. Generally a glance at "real time tuning" tells you something, battery voltage or water temp or something will be stupid.

Then, check for RPM, and finally pulsewidth. Shouldn't take too long.
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Old 10-31-2009, 09:25 PM   #102
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So last night I hooked up the laptop and tried to start it and everything looked fine, but no start. Sounded like it wanted to, but seemed like it kep flooding out.
About 2 hours ago I pulled just the MS, took the case apart and gave the board a visual. I didn't see any traces that were burnt, so I checked with the meter...everything was ok. I figured I'd plug it back in and try it again, it if it did the same thing, I'll pull the PNP board. I plugged the MS in just now, plugged only the DB37 and the MAP line in, and gave it a few cranks. First on ignition turn on, it did that infamous MS-1 pop, (which I found kinda weird since I'm on MS-II now), but like I said it did seem flooded. Anyway, I cranked it for about 3 seconds and it fired right off! I never touched the gas pedal once, I left it warm up and it idled about 1000RPM, then I reved it a bit, then shut it off. Unreal. Hey, it runs so F*$% it, right? It's staying here tonight, but maybe tomorrow I can get a good tune on it. So now someone should convince me to buy that PWM converter board...
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Old 10-31-2009, 10:53 PM   #103
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If you have A/C and a bunch of other stuff, i.e. bigger stereo, or what not, get the PWM board. Its worth the CL idle. Check out the thread, I made some significant changes to my settings.
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Old 11-02-2009, 10:29 AM   #104
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I don't have A/C, and I have the stock stereo. This might not be something I feel necessary in my project. As for my MS-II and PNP setup:
I drove the car last night...I didn't notice any kicks like I was having before, I took it to 7psi and it ran pretty well.
My idle on the other hand BLOWS. If I am in a parking lot it'll idle at 1400RPM. Now like I said previously, I didn't make any changes to my .msq after swapping that transistor and those caps.
Also on startup, right when it fires, the RPM's rev to like 2,000 RPM and then they settle down to like 1,000.
The final issue I notice I think is fault of my laptop. During a drive / datalog session, tuner studio will kinda freeze up, and then after like 60 seconds it'll come back to life, but the AFR's will be off. Like I said I think this is an issue with my laptop. Maybe I'll try MT and see if it still does it.
So aside from my idle, and the mild startup issue, my little Miata runs pretty good!
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Old 11-02-2009, 12:55 PM   #105
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Drove the car today and datalogged with MT. The AFR's are still off though, I check configurator and it is set correctly, but the LC-1 gauge on my dash is different than the AFR gauge on MT. Perhaps I need to recalibrate the LC-1? If I try to connect to the LC1 controller, it won't let me. Maybe I need to slow my COM settings in Device manager back down to 9600?
Also, the car did 1 little flicker again while driving it. I was datalogging with MT and it never crashed like TS would. I can't find the little spike in the log though, and it never showed up as even a reset....I uploaded my log and .msq.
home2town.xls

loaded.msq
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Old 11-02-2009, 08:41 PM   #106
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Dont know about the LC-1 issue. You know, strangely enough, I haven't had any of those hicks lately, maybe the occasional 1 or 2, but not to the point where it gets on my nerves. Im pretty content with how its running, but im still trying to figure out the idle control settings.

Never had TS crash on me before while running.
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Old 11-03-2009, 11:14 AM   #107
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I only noticed 1 hick, and that was yesterday while I was datalogging. I drove it about 100 miles after that and didn't notice anything. I think the car runs pretty good though, I just have to straighten out the high idle issue and make some fuel changes.
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Old 11-03-2009, 02:39 PM   #108
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Quote:
Originally Posted by thirdgen View Post
I plugged the MS in just now, plugged only the DB37 and the MAP line in, and gave it a few cranks. First on ignition turn on, it did that infamous MS-1 pop, (which I found kinda weird since I'm on MS-II now), but like I said it did seem flooded. Anyway, I cranked it for about 3 seconds and it fired right off! I never touched the gas pedal once, I left it warm up and it idled about 1000RPM, then I reved it a bit, then shut it off. Unreal. Hey, it runs so F*$% it, right? It's staying here tonight, but maybe tomorrow I can get a good tune on it. So now someone should convince me to buy that PWM converter board...
This whole post confuses me. :-) What happened? You unplugged everything and plugged everything back in and it worked? I was going to say AIT's were off, but then it sounds like you started without it hooked up? This is another case where a careful look at real time tuning may have helped.


Quote:
Originally Posted by Marc D View Post
If you have A/C and a bunch of other stuff, i.e. bigger stereo, or what not, get the PWM board. Its worth the CL idle. Check out the thread, I made some significant changes to my settings.
I really want to wait till the jury is back on this. The issues I've personally seen on CL idle have NOTHING to do with accuracy. Things like "valve opens while idle is too high" is not an accuracy thing, its a logic thing. When you get your idle 100%, I want to see what happens if you skip the multiplying. Until I can see a car that idles great with the board, and won't without it, I'm not willing to say its the frequency that's the problem. My car idles AMAZING, will climb hills in 4th, with no "controlled" idle whatsoever.

Quote:
Originally Posted by thirdgen View Post
My idle on the other hand BLOWS. If I am in a parking lot it'll idle at 1400RPM. Now like I said previously, I didn't make any changes to my .msq after swapping that transistor and those caps.
Also on startup, right when it fires, the RPM's rev to like 2,000 RPM and then they settle down to like 1,000.
You sure you have no new air leaks? What was your idle before? Starting at 2k and coming down is reasonable. I would bump the start value down just a bit, so it starts at 1500, but it's not terrible. That's easy stuff to adjust.

If you've been tweaking the fuel or spark maps, it might idle higher, or with the fans or vents on and off it'll effect it (though not that much). More of a description of what you're seeing, maybe?

Quote:
The final issue I notice I think is fault of my laptop. During a drive / datalog session, tuner studio will kinda freeze up, and then after like 60 seconds it'll come back to life, but the AFR's will be off. Like I said I think this is an issue with my laptop. Maybe I'll try MT and see if it still does it.
So aside from my idle, and the mild startup issue, my little Miata runs pretty good!
This I really don't know. I guess you're right, try MT and see if it helps.

Quote:
Originally Posted by thirdgen View Post
Drove the car today and datalogged with MT. The AFR's are still off though, I check configurator and it is set correctly, but the LC-1 gauge on my dash is different than the AFR gauge on MT. Perhaps I need to recalibrate the LC-1? If I try to connect to the LC1 controller, it won't let me. Maybe I need to slow my COM settings in Device manager back down to 9600?
I'm pretty sure I've mentioned this before: Whenever you're having problems with your WB, set it to "voltage" and look at it. It'll answer questions very fast. If your guage reads 15:1, but the MS says 1.4 volts, you know there's a grounding, wiring, or LC-1 issue. If you have WB-voltage and WBO2 shown, and one says 13:1 and the voltage says 2.5V then you know the issue is in software. PLEASE DO THIS.

Also, I've had my LC-1 act funny, and I reflashed it, and it came back. But I wasn't seeing what you're seeing.

Don't set it for 9600, the MS-II doesn't run there. That's NOT the problem.

Quote:
Also, the car did 1 little flicker again while driving it. I was datalogging with MT and it never crashed like TS would. I can't find the little spike in the log though, and it never showed up as even a reset....I uploaded my log and .msq.
I get one hick up a day, maybe two. I never get it in boost, or I don't notice it. Basically, you've got me.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Marc D View Post
Dont know about the LC-1 issue. You know, strangely enough, I haven't had any of those hicks lately, maybe the occasional 1 or 2, but not to the point where it gets on my nerves. Im pretty content with how its running, but im still trying to figure out the idle control settings.

Never had TS crash on me before while running.
Patience is a virtue on this idle thing. And I will not bash the idle code any more, even if as best I can tell it doesn't work, even mathematically. :-)

Quote:
Originally Posted by thirdgen View Post
I only noticed 1 hick, and that was yesterday while I was datalogging. I drove it about 100 miles after that and didn't notice anything. I think the car runs pretty good though, I just have to straighten out the high idle issue and make some fuel changes.
I'd like to know why it didn't start that one time. Getting the idle lower is EASY and takes like 25 seconds of work, edit the PWM Duty Table, make it lower. Done.
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Old 11-03-2009, 03:00 PM   #109
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uhg. I can't get over this. This idle thing. It's a "PID" controller that isn't "proportional" to the error.
I'd love to see numbers that work. So far, all I've been able to get it to do is come close to stalling and only actually stall occasionally, and only "hang" at 1500 or 2000 RPM rarely, etc. The PWM-warmup is always within 50 rpm of my "target", and it'll pull me up hills and in traffic in any gear all the time. All I want is a tinsy bit more valve opening when I'm idling low, and a little bit less when I'm idling high, by an amount proportional to the error...

I've gotten it to almost work, but never to work.
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Old 11-03-2009, 03:03 PM   #110
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and people called me dumb for sticking with piggyback...
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Old 11-03-2009, 08:27 PM   #111
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Ah, you totally are. :-) Using the PID code I wrote myself, it worked pretty well. Using "warm up" mode, it works really well.

Just don't use the CL idle and expect it to work, like, you'd expect. I think you can tune it to make it work, it'll just be weird.
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Old 11-04-2009, 02:58 AM   #112
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Alright, I'll break this all down in this one little reply so were are up to date with how I feel about my car and the PNP board / MS-II.
1) My hick ups are pretty much gone. I only noticed them twice since I swapped the capacitors, and it never did it in boost since.
2) During the day time my battery light is dimly lit, but in daylight I don't really notice it. I drive home from work at night though, and I notice it's on then. I'm over it, but that doesn't change the fact that it's still there.
3) My car idles between 1100 and 1400 RPM, I will make some changes to my PWM settings and work on fixing this.
4) The day I put the MS back in and my car didn't start...I smelled gas like it was flooding out. It was super cold in my garage, like 30 degrees, I think maybe the cranking pulsewidth settings had something to do with this, cause when it's nearly 60* in the garage, it starts up fine. Again, something I'd have to tinker with.
5) The wideband reading issue: I will set MT or TS (whatever I decide to use) to WB voltage, and then I will see what happens.

That should do it for now, basically it looks like it's all a tuning issue on my end. Perhaps even a LC-1 grounding issue? I will keep messing with it, but that's all I should have for a while. Thanks again guys...
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Old 11-05-2009, 04:11 PM   #113
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:-) Thanks for the update.

Yeah, it's not the injector characteristics (though voltage dependence might be an issue, if its cold and the battery were low), but there is priming pulse, ASE, and idle valve position. Between all of those, you should be able to get it running like a top.

Admittedly, all my testing is in San Diego where the only way to see frozen water is by opening your beer cooler.

The idle should be trivial to fix, and, its totally reversible. In MT, just cursor left and right until you're on the dot closest to the realtime position (green bar, I think), and hit shift-up or shift-down arrow to tweak the valve position. You'll be idling where you want in no time.

Soon, but not super soon, I'm going to mess with trying to make an RPM or idle position adder based either on an input or...? Something sensible.
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