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Old 02-03-2016, 12:52 PM   #201
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I think SFI is only used/recognized in the US, and Europe just uses FIA for everything. An FIA hans should pass tech with any organization over here. I *think* the FIA rated hans is also exempt from needing to be recertified.
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Old 02-04-2016, 02:57 PM   #202
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I think SFI is only used/recognized in the US, and Europe just uses FIA for everything. An FIA hans should pass tech with any organization over here. I *think* the FIA rated hans is also exempt from needing to be recertified.
this is a good question for Simpson the people that manufacture hans in the us. I think and don't quote me. if you want to get the unit re-certified Simpson won't do it unless the unit is sfi stamped.
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Old 02-04-2016, 05:16 PM   #203
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Are the Chinese seats unsafe or at least less safe than other non-FIA rated race seats? Any known incidences of failure ? I assume most of the branded FRP seats are made in China anyway.
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Old 02-04-2016, 05:19 PM   #204
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By Chinese seats I mean seats like the Sonic SP2 or other ebay offerings. Sonic is 190 and Iloveiltacotaco has two seats for 274.99, shipped! (This should be telling me something.)
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Old 02-04-2016, 05:19 PM   #205
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Are the Chinese seats unsafe or at least less safe than other non-FIA rated race seats? Any known incidences of failure ? I assume most of the branded FRP seats are made in China anyway.
Are you seriously asking members of this particular forum whether they think it's a good idea to purchase non-certified safety gear from China?

Think about that for a second...
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Old 02-04-2016, 05:37 PM   #206
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Yes, I guess even after years of internet experience and going to be 60 years old this year I can still give definition to the term newb. Sorry to have offended. Was just looking for anecdotal evidence. I know it's our safety and what price that but I'm closer to the end than the beginning so wtf. And since this is a thread I assume intended to educate the inexperienced, who might be too shy to ask said stupid question, I went ahead and put it out there.
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Old 02-04-2016, 05:38 PM   #207
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This is the forum where chinachargers are worshiped. And a lot of ebay parts can be decent.

I say fair question.
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Old 02-04-2016, 05:40 PM   #208
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When I think about Chinese-made seats being sold on eBay for $275 a pair shipped, it makes about Chinese-made steering wheels on eBay that you can bend with your hands, and quick-release adapters that release a little too quickly.

I have no direct experience here, I'm just saying that sometimes it's worthwhile to pay a little extra to get something you know is well-made from quality materials. When I rode, I had no problem at all paying $400 for a good helmet, and on one particular occasion, I was glad I did.
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Old 02-04-2016, 05:43 PM   #209
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If I buy seats I will be buying sonic motor VS3's. As long as they don't recline I doubt they'll spectacularly fail.
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Old 02-04-2016, 05:54 PM   #210
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ridewhencan View Post
Yes, I guess even after years of internet experience and going to be 60 years old this year I can still give definition to the term newb. Sorry to have offended. Was just looking for anecdotal evidence. I know it's our safety and what price that but I'm closer to the end than the beginning so wtf. And since this is a thread I assume intended to educate the inexperienced, who might be too shy to ask said stupid question, I went ahead and put it out there.
ask away, more then happy to help.

Chinese seats. if you get a chance to put your hands on one of those seats i suggest you do so. with a solid mounted (lets call them) fake brides, you'll be able to grip the top of the seat and bend it almost into the driver seat with mild pressure. many people here that have them or experienced them will agree with me. in an accident this will give you almost zero support.
the idea of a race seat, that in a side or rear impact the seat will decelerate your body and give you more room to dissipate G forces. if a seat just folds over it's not going to decelerate your body much at all. for that i would call them dangerous. at that point i would take a well mounted kirkey over the Chinese fiberglass seats. that and i think tweed is awesome.

if you get a chance to feel those seats go for it, then take a chance and compare it to a well mounted FIA seat. the FIA seat you'll be able to put all of your body pressure into it, the seat won't budge, and the car will shake. that's a seat that will help in a crash.
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Old 02-04-2016, 06:00 PM   #211
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Got me curious, look how much stock miata seats deflect @ 35mph



Besides, if you are strapped in proper how much can the seatback really move? Isn't it more or less pinched between you and the harness bar?

Don't mean to argue in favor of china crap, just curious.
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Old 02-04-2016, 06:08 PM   #212
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Quote:
Originally Posted by deezums View Post
Got me curious, look how much stock miata seats deflect @ 35mph



Besides, if you are strapped in proper how much can the seatback really move? Isn't it more or less pinched between you and the harness bar?

Don't mean to argue in favor of china crap, just curious.
Seats generally help rear or side impacts, frontal impacts are 90% harness and H&N restraint devices. and that car is completely screwed at only 35mph. a speed most people drive in parking lots

i did share that racetech video right? edit: i did check this guy out. it covers seats really well https://www.miataturbo.net/race-prep...9/#post1300628
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Old 02-04-2016, 06:09 PM   #213
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and quick-release adapters that release a little too quickly.


While we're at it, I've been wanting to get this off my chest.

I think it's a dangerous game to take Mobius's incident as blanket trust in the 6 point/airbag setup. The crash involved the front of the car, but it does not at all appear to be carrying the full momentum of it. The general velocity of the car still appears to be heading in the direction of the track, parallel with the wall. Had this been a direct head on collision at 100+ instead of ~75mph at an angle, the air bag would not have done much more absorbing, but the head would have had way more energy. You can see in Deezum's video - the air bag is effective when it's really engulfing the object that's heading towards it. For the head to get that far in Mobius's vid, it would've had to detach.

When we talk about safety, we talk about tested systems. The 6 point/HNRS/race seat is a proven and tested system. OEM is a tested system. Both of these systems' strengths and flaws are known. But one anecdotal case of a driver coming out unharmed from a crash with no data is not enough for me to trust a 6-point/airbag system with no HNRS.
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Old 02-04-2016, 06:13 PM   #214
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Originally Posted by dasting View Post


While we're at it, I've been wanting to get this off my chest.

I think it's a dangerous game to take Mobius's incident as blanket trust in the 6 point/airbag setup. The crash involved the front of the car, but it does not at all appear to be carrying the full momentum of it. The general velocity of the car still appears to be heading in the direction of the track, parallel with the wall. Had this been a direct head on collision at 100+ instead of ~75mph at an angle, the air bag would not have done much more absorbing, but the head would have had way more energy. You can see in Deezum's video - the air bag is effective when it's really engulfing the object that's heading towards it. For the head to get that far in Mobius's vid, it would've had to detach.

When we talk about safety, we talk about tested systems. The 6 point/HNRS/race seat is a proven and tested system. OEM is a tested system. Both of these systems' strengths and flaws are known. But one anecdotal case of a driver coming out unharmed from a crash with no data is not enough for me to trust a 6-point/airbag system with no HNRS.
the thing that i take away from that crash is the passengers air bag didn't go off. heck i've crashed a car and my air bag didn't go off, but my passenger bag did. Your going to trust something that is intermittent at the best of times?
for naysayer that say the a hans is too expensive, once you crash with one you'll be sold that it's worth every pennie.
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Old 02-04-2016, 06:14 PM   #215
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the thing that i take away from that crash is the passengers air bag didn't go off. heck i've crashed a car and my air bag didn't go off, but my passenger bag did. Your going to trust something that is intermittent at the best of times?
for naysayer that say the a hans is too expensive, once you crash with one you'll be sold that it's worth every pennie.
Well, Mobius stated that the passenger airbag had been turned off, so...
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Old 02-04-2016, 06:15 PM   #216
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Well, Mobius stated that the passenger airbag had been turned off, so...
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Old 02-04-2016, 06:16 PM   #217
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I just went back and watched, missed that page somehow.

So it seems to me that ebay buckets would probably be better than OEM, since they'd hold you in place somewhat more than stock seats on side impacts.

And if you came up with a way to strap the seatback to the roll bar securely you'd lessen the necessary structural integrity of the seatback a lot, possibly even be able to rock the car as you say.

Still not a proper tested seat, but better than nothing, eh?
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Old 02-04-2016, 06:19 PM   #218
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Quote:
Originally Posted by deezums View Post
I just went back and watched, missed that page somehow.

So it seems to me that ebay buckets would probably be better than OEM, since they'd hold you in place somewhat more than stock seats on side impacts.

And if you came up with a way to strap the seatback to the roll bar securely you'd lessen the necessary structural integrity of the seatback a lot, possibly even be able to rock the car as you say.

Still not a proper tested seat, but better than nothing, eh?
something better then nothing... i can agree a little bit. but if you wanted a really cheap (sub 200 bucks) seat i would strongly suggest a well mounted kirkey over trusting the super thin Chinese fiberglass.





50mph vs 100mph impacts. this is when a cage is needed.
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Old 02-04-2016, 09:30 PM   #219
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If I buy seats I will be buying sonic motor VS3's. As long as they don't recline I doubt they'll spectacularly fail.
You don't know that. I wouldn't be comfortable in a seat I didn't trust on a racetrack, but I've been doing this long enough to see the fatalities and serious injuries that result when you don't take safety seriously.

Let me repeat that for emphasis: People die because they don't take safety seriously.

In California, we have a saying: You have to make several mistakes all at once in order to kill yourself in a race car. Dropping a wheel or failing to correct a spin is usually the last mistake you make. The first mistake is an eBay seat, or shitty seat mounts, or not wearing a HNRS, or wearing 4-points, or using a 3-point belt with a racing seat, or any number of other safety faux-pas. If you manage to not make any single mistake in the entire chain, you survive the accident. Why would you not give yourself the best possible chance of surviving the worst case scenario?

Do some of you not have loved ones you would leave behind? Do you not value your life at some dollar amount higher than the $137.50 you spent on your non-certified, unknown-origin, unknown-construction eBay seat that might hold up perfectly, or might snap like a twig if asked to actually do its job?

The entire point of this thread is to demonstrate what's acceptable and what's not acceptable when it comes to safety gear. In my educated, experienced opinion, $140 racing seats are not "fine" or "OK". I'm all for the cheap, DIY solutions that this forum fawns over, but safety gear is not the time or place, because unlike pretty much every other system on the car, you don't get a second chance to get your safety gear right. You need it to work, correctly, the very first time you're forced to use it.
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Old 02-04-2016, 09:35 PM   #220
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Well, Mobius stated that the passenger airbag had been turned off, so...
that was my point. passenger wasn't hurt without airbag.
so driver's air bag was irrelevant if it helped or not. impact wasn't severe enough for airbag to come into play.
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