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Old 01-14-2016, 02:17 AM   #81
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Quote:
Originally Posted by hornetball View Post
Not familiar with that accident. Link?
.
Fatality at Buttonwillow

cliff note:

HPDE event at Buttonwillow

E46 came out of Esses, spun around and hit corner station sideway.

car has a cage, 5/6 pt harness, race seat.

but no roll bar paddings, no HANS, no halo seat, no center net, no window net.

driver dead, passenger in hospital 2 weeks plus.
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Old 01-14-2016, 04:04 PM   #82
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Originally Posted by hornetball View Post

Based upon everything I've seen -- and also what I did on the red car to convert it to dedicated track use -- it's not really feasible to swap back and forth between the OEM airbag steering wheel and a track steering wheel. So, would the safe answer to running something like a Momo on the street in a 1990 Miata be to install non-breakaway 3 points? Non-breakaway belts are available from Mazda.

Another thing I noticed is that my 1990 has original breakaway belts on both the driver's side (with airbag) and the passenger's side (without airbag but with a bit more distance before there is something to hit).

So . . . ???
I didn't think swapping the steering wheel was really that labor intensive or irreversible, unless somehow you screwed up the airbag harness when swapping to racing wheel.

Non-breakaway belts for sure if there is no airbag. You can buy one, or you can modify the breakaway by removing the stitching (carefully). Probably not as safe as the stock setup, but wayyy better than flying into the steering wheel at speed.

Edit: Obviously this shouldn't be used for track use.
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Old 01-14-2016, 04:05 PM   #83
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Originally Posted by Itty View Post
I didn't think swapping the steering wheel was really that labor intensive or irreversible, unless somehow you screwed up the airbag harness when swapping to racing wheel.

Non-breakaway belts for sure if there is no airbag. You can buy one, or you can modify the breakaway by removing the stitching (carefully). Probably not as safe as the stock setup, but wayyy better than flying into the steering wheel at speed.
i would feel better with a 5 pint Vs. modifying a oem 3 point.
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Old 01-14-2016, 05:49 PM   #84
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Quote:
Originally Posted by hornetball View Post
Not familiar with that accident. Link?
William posted the TrackHQ link. The tl;dr is that an E46 M3 dropped wheels at an assumed ~110mph and went passenger door first into a corner worker station. Car was caged and occupants were in FIA seats, but there were no nets, no containment halos, and no HNRS devices. Driver was (assumed) dead on impact, passenger expected to survive but ended up in the hospital. Based on what I know, my speculation is that the driver was killed because he didn't have head/neck restraint in a massive side impact.

My reaction to HPDE deaths is to buy whatever safety gear would have had a chance at preventing the death. In this case, that's a containment seat (I already have a HANS). Ordered it yesterday along with new Schroth ProfiII-6H belts.
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Old 01-14-2016, 06:09 PM   #85
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My reaction to HPDE deaths is to buy whatever safety gear would have had a chance at preventing the death. In this case, that's a containment seat (I already have a HANS). Ordered it yesterday along with new Schroth ProfiII-6H belts.
What are you doing about streetability of said containment seat?

--Ian
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Old 01-14-2016, 06:17 PM   #86
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Quote:
Originally Posted by codrus View Post
What are you doing about streetability of said containment seat?

--Ian

This:
Quote:
Originally Posted by Savington View Post
I have the OEM airbag, OEM 3-points, and Elise seat (OEM belts interact with the Elise seat perfectly), which is perfect on the street. For track days, I'll have a full FIA containment seat, Schroth FIA 6-points, HNRS, and a Sparco wheel.
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Old 01-14-2016, 06:18 PM   #87
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Savington View Post
William posted the TrackHQ link. The tl;dr is that an E46 M3 dropped wheels at an assumed ~110mph and went passenger door first into a corner worker station. Car was caged and occupants were in FIA seats, but there were no nets, no containment halos, and no HNRS devices. Driver was (assumed) dead on impact, passenger expected to survive but ended up in the hospital. Based on what I know, my speculation is that the driver was killed because he didn't have head/neck restraint in a massive side impact.

My reaction to HPDE deaths is to buy whatever safety gear would have had a chance at preventing the death. In this case, that's a containment seat (I already have a HANS). Ordered it yesterday along with new Schroth ProfiII-6H belts.
side impacts are the hardest to protect. front impacts you have your hans, and a harness. rear impacts are all in the seat. the cage only prevents objects from entering your car.
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Old 01-14-2016, 07:25 PM   #88
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Originally Posted by codrus View Post
What are you doing about streetability of said containment seat?
Not driving it on the street with the containment seat. I will swap it in for events and remove it afterwards. Going to try out the PCI adjustable bracket that bolts to the factory seat mounts and should give me enough adjustment to put the seat in the car without cutting/bashing anything too badly.

Quote:
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side impacts are the hardest to protect. front impacts you have your hans, and a harness. rear impacts are all in the seat. the cage only prevents objects from entering your car.
Not hard, you just have to have specific things to protect against them. Same as any other impact. Frontal impacts are HNRS, rear impacts are the seat, side impacts are sidenets and/or containment seats. I can't put a side net in this car without cutting up the HVAC/dashboard, and I don't have a solid point to attach it to anyway, so a current FIA containment seat is the best I can do.
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Old 01-14-2016, 09:16 PM   #89
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What are your guys thoughts on building a removable halo section or containment section with the same construction design as the ultrashield but that attaches to the roll bar with something like collars for track days? It would all be welded together with a TIG. I'm running Sparco Sprints with schroth 6pt and waiting on the new Schroth flex to come OUT.
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Old 01-14-2016, 09:28 PM   #90
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It would have to attach to the seat to be effective. Your seat moves a huge amount in an accident (unless it's aluminum and fastened to the cage in several places), so a halo attached to your rollbar might do more harm than good.
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Old 01-14-2016, 09:54 PM   #91
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Savington View Post
It would have to attach to the seat to be effective. Your seat moves a huge amount in an accident (unless it's aluminum and fastened to the cage in several places), so a halo attached to your rollbar might do more harm than good.
Thanks, I'll try to see how I could make that work or look into other ideas.
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Old 01-14-2016, 10:02 PM   #92
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Without a proper containment seat, your best bet is side nets, but they are not nearly as good. If it matters to you, upgrade your seat.
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Old 01-14-2016, 10:31 PM   #93
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Anyone know if you can bolt on a full containment to an ultrashield rally sport?
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Old 01-14-2016, 10:43 PM   #94
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I see the need, but I have a hard time throwing down $1300 just for a hans.

What lower cost options are viable?

How's the zamp, team vallahalla, leatt, simpson? Any other alternatives?

Are any of them worthwhile, or is hans really the only way to go?

What's the cheapest effective full containment seat that fits in a miata?
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Old 01-14-2016, 10:47 PM   #95
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Where are you seeing $1300? I paid ~$500 for mine. And there is a cheaper schroth version for ~$400 i think.
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Old 01-14-2016, 10:58 PM   #96
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Quote:
Originally Posted by aidandj View Post
Where are you seeing $1300? I paid ~$500 for mine. And there is a cheaper schroth version for ~$400 i think.



Sure, that's the retail for the pro version, the sport 2 at $500 is still a bit expensive. I have no problem spending the money if it's necessary, but I don't want to spend it if there are valid alternatives.


Is the schroth just as safe?
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Old 01-14-2016, 11:13 PM   #97
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Quote:
Originally Posted by aidandj View Post
Anyone know if you can bolt on a full containment to an ultrashield rally sport?
Kirkey makes an aluminum bolt-on halo for their aluminum shell seat, the 47 series. (By bolt-on, I mean drill through then bolt on)
I'd imagine it would bolt up to the Ultrashield since the designs are very similar.

The part number is 00900S for the sheetmetal type, and 00900T for the tubular type.

Check out the 00900T in this thread.




Quote:
Originally Posted by BenR View Post
Is the schroth just as safe?
The Schroth Flex SHR has a fixed lower and sliding upper tether, so I'd expect it to be in the same realm as the Necksgen which has a similar setup. I've heard that the fixed lower tether design fares better in lateral accidents than the single sliding tether like the HANS, but someone else would have to point to more concrete info.


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Old 01-15-2016, 01:16 AM   #98
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Quote:
Originally Posted by BenR View Post
Sure, that's the retail for the pro version, the sport 2 at $500 is still a bit expensive. I have no problem spending the money if it's necessary, but I don't want to spend it if there are valid alternatives.


Is the schroth just as safe?
AIUI, when you buy the more expensive HANS, what you're paying for is lighter weight, not increased safety.

Personally I have a HANS because that's the one that's recognized by the major sanctioning bodies.

--Ian
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Old 01-15-2016, 09:44 AM   #99
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HANS paid big money to sanctioning bodies to have rules written to exclude competitors.
That doesn't qualify them as better. Arguably, it reduced the number of quality and safety improvements that may have come through more competition.
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Old 01-15-2016, 11:15 AM   #100
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Just ordered a HANS and roll-bar padding and fire extinguisher due to this thread.:bu rncash:

Thanks for nothing jerks*




*Actually thanks... I had no idea it was unsafe to run a 5pt harness without a HANS.
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