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Old 01-06-2016, 10:06 PM   #21
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Originally Posted by aidandj View Post
Yeah. That guy that destroyed his face on the aftermarket steering wheel.

Thread got deleted/moved because of the gore.

Joe Perez might know more.
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The OP requested thread deletion due to an ongoing insurance investigation. Didn't want to take any chances with the wrong thing being said, in case a lawyer ever happened across the thread.
Wait -- was that the thread that turned into a long safety discussion? I asked about that thread a while back because I couldn't find it. Others said they remembered it but couldn't find it either.

I thought the safety discussion got split into a separate thread, anyway -- why did that get deleted?
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Old 01-06-2016, 10:51 PM   #22
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It is impossible to damage your nads if your 5 point harness is adjusted correctly. It is very possible if you don't follow the directions in the box like a tard. Then you probably shouldn't be reproducing anyway.
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Old 01-06-2016, 11:20 PM   #23
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Originally Posted by mgeoffriau View Post
Wait -- was that the thread that turned into a long safety discussion? I asked about that thread a while back because I couldn't find it. Others said they remembered it but couldn't find it either.

I thought the safety discussion got split into a separate thread, anyway -- why did that get deleted?
Yes, it was that thread, and yes, it was split into two parts. The OP requested that I delete both of them (as litigation was occurring between his passenger and his insurance company), and given the nature of the situation I honored the request.


I summarized everything of importance in the last post. NAs had breakaway webbing in the lower portion of the belt, NBs didn't. Late NBs had active pretentioners, no evidence could be found of active pretensioners in early NBs. No conclusion was reached as to whether a breakaway system existed within the reel mechanism of any NB, however logic (and obvious external differences in their construction as compared to those of the NA) suggests that they may.

Under no circumstances is it safe to crash in a vehicle with a breakaway seatbelt mechanism if the airbag is absent or non-functional.
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Old 01-06-2016, 11:32 PM   #24
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Are there any issues leaving the air bags in with a 5pt and HANS?
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Old 01-07-2016, 03:03 AM   #25
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Advocating a handheld fire extinguisher? WTF? If the car's on fire and you're moving, you don't have a free hand to use an extinguisher. If it's on fire and you're stopped, you don't wait around to try to put it out, you run.

A handheld extinguisher is useless. If you're going to have a fire system, this is what you want:




--Ian
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HPDE / track day safety gear flow chart !!-fire-bottle1.mid.jpg   HPDE / track day safety gear flow chart !!-fire-bottle2.mid.jpg  
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Old 01-07-2016, 04:04 AM   #26
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Advocating a handheld fire extinguisher? WTF? If the car's on fire and you're moving, you don't have a free hand to use an extinguisher. If it's on fire and you're stopped, you don't wait around to try to put it out, you run.

A handheld extinguisher is useless. If you're going to have a fire system, this is what you want:

--Ian
Handheld fire bottle while not as good as an automatic or pull fire system (flow chart give more * if you got them), it is far from useless.

it is required by SCCA and NASA (and others) as minimum requirement for w2w. It is quite an over step for a hpde flow chart to call 50+% (a guess here, but not far off) of all current w2w cars unsafe because they only have a handheld.

It is also unrealistic to ask a hpde (what. Flow chart is about) car to install an automatic or pull fire system. I don't think I've seen one in anything other than w2w or exotic TA cars

Handheld can be used to help others put out fires, say while in pit or hot pit. It can also be used to put out common grass fire by stall cars (yours) on dry grass. This is especially common on west coast desert tracks.
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Old 01-07-2016, 08:45 AM   #27
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I have a handheld so I can put out a small fire on my vehicle once I have extricated myself. Three minutes for a fire crew to get there may be the difference between a charred component and a charred car.

Halo seat or center net will have most people disregarding your list as over the top.

I would also say "head and neck restraint" instead of using the brand name "HANS", especially since HANS is inferior to some of its competitors at side or angled impact protection and is only required by name by the the SCCA because of sponsorship dollars.

"If it isn't a fully stock street car, you may just as well build a sanctioned racecar with a full cage" is what I get from your chart.
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Old 01-07-2016, 10:21 AM   #28
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Everything is a compromise... it just so happens that most of the compromises between street car and dedicated track car are extremely unsafe.

I'm not sure if it was posted here, but someone with a Mazda3 (not a speed, iirc) installed an aftermarket steering wheel and then haphazardly bolted the airbag to it. This stuff isn't as intuitive as you'd think.
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Old 01-07-2016, 11:24 AM   #29
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Originally Posted by Joe Perez View Post
I summarized everything of importance in the last post. NAs had breakaway webbing in the lower portion of the belt, NBs didn't. Late NBs had active pretentioners, no evidence could be found of active pretensioners in early NBs. No conclusion was reached as to whether a breakaway system existed within the reel mechanism of any NB, however logic (and obvious external differences in their construction as compared to those of the NA) suggests that they may.

Under no circumstances is it safe to crash in a vehicle with a breakaway seatbelt mechanism if the airbag is absent or non-functional.
I've been wanting to go back and re-read that thread as motivation to make a decision. I'm about 50/50 on whether to keep working on my NA project car, or just get it into decent shape and sell it and then look for an NB. Even if I spent the time and money piecing together a working NA airbag system, I'm not sure I trust the early explod-o airbags. I have broken my face once and I'm not eager to do it again.
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Old 01-07-2016, 11:39 AM   #30
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Are miatas with hard tops required to have roll bars? I'm interested in open track and instructed track days.
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Old 01-07-2016, 11:43 AM   #31
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IT BEGINS
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Old 01-07-2016, 11:43 AM   #32
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yes. hardtop is fiberglass and is pretty much worthless in terms of roll-over protection.
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Old 01-07-2016, 11:46 AM   #33
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Originally Posted by codrus View Post
Advocating a handheld fire extinguisher? WTF? If the car's on fire and you're moving, you don't have a free hand to use an extinguisher. If it's on fire and you're stopped, you don't wait around to try to put it out, you run.

A handheld extinguisher is useless. If you're going to have a fire system, this is what you want:




--Ian

Fire systems are optional for many racing series. i strongly encourage people to use them if..

you race with smaller Track day organizers.
many tracks charge extra to have corner workers equipped with fire extinguishers. The smaller track day guys sometimes opp out of paying for the service.

you have a large amount invested into the car.
fire systems cost 375 bucks. your car is an investment, so if you would like to protect the investment 375 bucks is money well spent. lemons car.. you might not care.

your car is difficult to get out of.
A miata with a hard top, sitting on it's driver side is a real PITA to get out of quickly it would be wise to have a fire system to give you a few more seconds to get out.


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Old 01-07-2016, 12:07 PM   #34
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Are there any issues leaving the air bags in with a 5pt and HANS?
A deployed airbag could impede your egress.

And . . . if you've got one of those "grenade shrapnel" airbags . . . .
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Old 01-07-2016, 12:12 PM   #35
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Quote:
Originally Posted by bellwilliam View Post

You can Google ******* damage with 5 point harness very gnarly !!
I give safety classes at race tracks all over the south east… this is going into that class lol

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Originally Posted by deezums View Post
That's backwards to most new cars I'm familiar with, they carry a pyro charge to shorten the belt 1-2" before giving way, never to full length though. If anything, I bet the NB does that.

I think I remember the thread, but no gore. Just a smashed steering wheel from a guy jacking around in the driveway? Same one?
I’ve pulled nb 3 point apart. It’s not that fancy. Steering wheels should be able to bend and not brake. A lot of the Chinese wheels you see on ebay snap the spokes off the rim. Making it a spinning wheel of death. A guy at mazmar crashed his NA a few years ago, had a ebay wheel. The rim broke off and the spokes stabbed him. He lost a lot of blood, but they got him to the hospital fast enough.

http://hotrodforums.net/forums/image...015/01/144.jpg
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Old 01-07-2016, 12:20 PM   #36
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Originally Posted by bellwilliam View Post
You can Google ******* damage with 5 point harness very gnarly !!
I can't see the difference between 5pt and 6pt harnesses. When I'm sitting in my race seat my thighs* are touching each other and the crotch strap is obviously jammed in between. I'm not sure how having another strap jammed in the same spot is going to save my ***** in a crash.


Seems like to me they are going to be smashed either way. And I don't care- I'd rather have smushed ***** than die from a 4pt harness.





*I'm 5'10" 160 lbs, so not a big fatty fat.
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Old 01-07-2016, 12:22 PM   #37
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Originally Posted by Joe Perez View Post
The OP requested thread deletion due to an ongoing insurance investigation. Didn't want to take any chances with the wrong thing being said, in case a lawyer ever happened across the thread.


Long story short: NA Miata seatbelts have a breakaway section near the lower anchor, which consists of a looped-over section of belt loosely stitched together. In an accident, it's designed to progressively tear away, thus decreasing the severity of the force applied to your abdomen and squishy internal organs. This assumes, of course, that the airbag is there to catch your head at the end of travel. If it's not, your face absorbs the impact, resulting in things like loss of teeth, jaw and skull fractures, death, etc.

This feature isn't unique to the NA. It is seen in many airbag-equipped vehicles of similar vintage.

NBs don't have this tearaway section. It is supposed, but not proven, that they incorporate a similar mechanism within the reel assembly.
I thought the general consensus was to remove the webbed section or replace the seatbelt when using an aftermarket wheel. I don't think the Canadian cars had a breakaway section.
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Old 01-07-2016, 12:27 PM   #38
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He lost a lot of blood, but they got him to the hospital fast enough.

http://hotrodforums.net/forums/image...015/01/144.jpg

I'm not sure I want to click this image



I don't think we ever got confirmation as to if the guy who wrecked the car in this other thread even had a stock seat belt on. If I remember right he hit a tree in his front yard.

Who straps into their race car to drive around the front yard, helmet, hans and all? I wouldn't have even put my seatbelt on. If he's not wearing a belt, of course the wheel is folded up.

But maybe I don't remember the thread right. The world may never know. All I know is I'm not about to stop driving my stock steering wheel with the airbag deleted, nor am I going to cut the belt. I'll bring you all my teeth if it ever happens, lol
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Old 01-07-2016, 12:38 PM   #39
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I'm not sure I want to click this image
It's not gory:

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Old 01-07-2016, 12:41 PM   #40
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Originally Posted by deezums View Post
I'm not sure I want to click this image



I don't think we ever got confirmation as to if the guy who wrecked the car in this other thread even had a stock seat belt on. If I remember right he hit a tree in his front yard.

Who straps into their race car to drive around the front yard, helmet, hans and all? I wouldn't have even put my seatbelt on. If he's not wearing a belt, of course the wheel is folded up.

But maybe I don't remember the thread right. The world may never know. All I know is I'm not about to stop driving my stock steering wheel with the airbag deleted, nor am I going to cut the belt. I'll bring you all my teeth if it ever happens, lol
it's not gory but the only picture i can find of the spokes on a wheel failing. most of the race tracks guys run a sparco,momo kinda wheel. so i have no personal pictures to reference.

your not a real racer until you strap into a car with no engine and make race car noises.


being uneducated about safety is one thing, being educated and ignoring it is another. we should all do our parts and try to help the noobs learn proper safety. if you know the risks, ignore the safety and die then it was nobody's fault but your own.
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