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I am bored and on the clock so I did a little looking https://forums.haltech.com/viewtopic.php?t=34543 seems like the IO box doesn't like reluctors, but if you are gonna use the BMW sensors no big deal
That's going to depend on the TC system you're using. The BMW sensors are "active" sensors (which I think are Hall effect). My RaceLogic TC system only supports passive sensors (reluctors), and requires some kind of adapter if you want to use it with active ones.
--Ian
The Mk60 sensors are active but they are not Hall effect. They are the Magneto Resistive (MR) type.
The resistance of the sensor changes as the teeth pass by. One of the two wires is 12V supplied by the ABS unit, the other wire is the output around 10V and the signal is represented by the the current -> 14mA current for high, 7mA for low defining the square wave.
but if you are gonna use the BMW sensors no big deal
You can't really generalize like that because BMW use 3 different types of ABS sensor based on the type of the ABS unit in the specific car: reluctors, magneto resistive and hall effect.
Even just the BMW 3 series E46 gen cars use all the 3 types. E46 with Mk20 ABS use reluctors, E46 with Mk60 ABS use magneto resistive, E46 with Bosch ABS use hall effect.
You can't really generalize like that because BMW use 3 different types of ABS sensor based on the type of the ABS unit in the specific car: reluctors, magneto resistive and hall effect.
Even just the BMW 3 series E46 gen cars use all the 3 types. E46 with Mk20 ABS use reluctors, E46 with Mk60 ABS use magneto resistive, E46 with Bosch ABS use hall effect.
I was basing that on the notion that Ian was stating they are Hall.
You can't really generalize like that because BMW use 3 different types of ABS sensor based on the type of the ABS unit in the specific car: reluctors, magneto resistive and hall effect.
Even just the BMW 3 series E46 gen cars use all the 3 types. E46 with Mk20 ABS use reluctors, E46 with Mk60 ABS use magneto resistive, E46 with Bosch ABS use hall effect.
Sounds like the Bosch sensors would be ideal for my application.
Sounds like the Bosch sensors would be ideal for my application.
OEM Miata sensors with the electronic adapter module that msmola linked seems like an easier option to me, but I'd rather do a little soldering than have to machine adapters. As for price -- how often do they go bad? There's probably a lot of them in junkyards.
And yeah, sorry about misidentifying the type of mk60 sensors. I did label it with "I think" though.
OEM Miata sensors with the electronic adapter module that msmola linked seems like an easier option to me, but I'd rather do a little soldering than have to machine adapters. As for price -- how often do they go bad? There's probably a lot of them in junkyards.
And yeah, sorry about misidentifying the type of mk60 sensors. I did label it with "I think" though.
--Ian
Solid points. Thanks for the direction and thoughts! Might have to start monitoring part-outs.
OEM Miata sensors with the electronic adapter module that msmola linked seems like an easier option to me, but I'd rather do a little soldering than have to machine adapters. As for price -- how often do they go bad? There's probably a lot of them in junkyards.
And yeah, sorry about misidentifying the type of mk60 sensors. I did label it with "I think" though.
--Ian
It depends if the traction control would be used for launches or not. There is a reason the companies moved to active sensors.
The reluctors don't work well at very low wheel speeds.
It depends if the traction control would be used for launches or not. There is a reason the companies moved to active sensors.
The reluctors don't work well at very low wheel speeds.
FWIW my RaceLogic TCS seems to do OK at low speeds with OEM reluctors, but I don't drag race the car.
What are you guys doing with the prop valve, or are you even running one?
Stock Miata is a tandem master (in my case 15/16 / 24mm), while stock MK60 master is 24mm front / 20mm rear. I have the Wilwood valve plumbed into the rear, and thanks to Emilio's chart we have:
MK60 throws a "5E24 - Pressure Sensor 1/2 Not Plausible." / "5E24 Druck Sensor 1/2 unplausibel" if the F/R pressure bias is > ~1.38. I played with the prop valve and it needs to be wound in quite a bit further to Rear (CW) to get the error to stop being thrown.
Are you guys ignoring the error, did you move the bias until the unit was happy and let it sort out what the rear is doing, did you switch to a different master, or what?
With the bias I wanted, I was getting the "5E24" error also. I was border line on the 1.38 F/R pressure ratio, so the error would happen sometime during a weekend. I never noticed any difference in ABS action. I had 2 bias mechanisms (hydraulic and a balance bar) and wanted to get rid of the hydraulic version, so I went to a less aggressive pad in the rear. I'm now around a 1.2 pressure ratio...and I'll still get the 5E24 error every once in a while. I'm guessing under some circumstance (extremely quick pedal application?) the pressure ratio creates the error. But still no problems with the ABS. So it may be a reporting error, and not something the algorithm takes action on ?
Also, finally got the ATEK fittings on the rear ABS input line. I got that channel down from 3 lines, to 1.
Not sure I can get it on the front line (space, location such that air can escape etc.).
Alright, that kinda matches up from what I heard from another MK60 Miata and a MK60 E36.
Both independently basically said they sat there with a laptop and set the pressure ratio until it fell under the threshold, then kinda left it alone, and it just works.
I have the Superlite TSE kit up front with Gloc R18 / Sport rears with Gloc R10; test event this weekend, so we will see how it goes.
I still also need to order those ATEK fittings, I don't like how mine is routed right now for the long term. Pressure sensors are mounted to the firewall on brackets that have them at a 60* angle. Default 3DM / RHT harness pressure sensor lead length means you need to mount the ABS unit in the more or less stock area and need to have the pressure sensors somewhere between the motor and the ABS unit.
I never got the INPA working on my laptop (it worked with a friends laptop, so it was me not the MK60). So I ordered a foxwell reader. It's awesome, rugged, easy to use, and easy to throw in my tools-bag for the track.
After trying a new set of BrakeQuip Tee fittings, which also leaked, I bought some OE VW Tees off eBay to test out. With no other changes, the OE VW parts worked great. No leaks power bleeding at 15psi and no leaks when pedal bleeding. So, be warned, there is at least one bad batch of BrakeQuip fittings out there.
Ran it for the first time, worked flawlessly and a pretty damn nice upgrade. Rear sometimes has the feeling of being nervous on heavy straight line braking, but the ABS sorts it right out. You feel the back wanting to walk a bit but it doesn't actually go anywhere. Doesn't do it all with some lateral g component.
I have an idea for setting the ZCP/CSL parameters, just need to figure out how to get NCSExpert to connect since I can't just read the ZCS values from the other modules.
As far as traction control goes I was looking at the option wheel speed output to connect to a standalone. This project does interest me and I’ll be exploring this more in the future for myself.
I had Doug from 3DM wire in a wheel speed control module for me to utilize the wheel speed sensors to be used to TC. Im sure it would be fairly simple to replicate.
So if anyone is interested in this info, I did get the mk60 wheel speed outputs to work with the pt4/pt5 high speed inputs in my Megasquirt 3 gold box for traction control. Even though everything I read said the outputs were 0-5v, they were closer to 3v and were not enough to work with MS3. I ended up using pull up 330ohm resistors off the 5v output of ms3 and it worked great. Traction control now works.
also worth mentioning, I went into what felt like ice mode yesterday in a race. Has anyone encountered this and has anyone found a cure?
09-29-2021, 04:51 PM
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