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OMG! Miata forums FTW once again.
So much wealth of information here.
I used to have a K24/20 swapped Miata but I sold the car and been out of commission for awhile... haha
Can someone school me on the details of MK60 stuff please, I'm still confused about this MK60 ABS.
So... the "M3 MK60" comes in two different flavors 813.3 and 817.3 and they are the main discussions for the race prepped cars.
I've seen MK60 units in "non-M3" cars, E46 325/330 in the local junkyard.
I'm aware these do not have any flashing capabilities nor M3 ABS flash/program on the ABS assembly.
Can the "non-M3 MK60" units also be used as a standalone ABS swap?
If they can be used as a standalone, what would be the downside to this solution? or the difference?
I'm just trying to retrofit a standard ABS system to a car, not really interested in having the M3 flash/program at this moment.
And if it ever comes to it, I'm sure swapping out the ABS Assembly to a "M3" (813.3/817.3) spec one will be a breeze if I already have the MK60 in place.
I'm new to this, but I'm a BMW master technician and deal with this system for years.
from my understanding.
All MK60 can be used as a stand alone system. This is a functionnality in case there's an issue in the vehicle. The safety function will remain active.
Some MK60 unit are better than other, some are flashable, some are not. As you listed in you own comment.
Some require 2 yaw sensors (AWD, Active steering M5-M6).
There's a lot of tiny difference from one unit to the other. The most popular are the MK60 813.3 or 817.3 with the external pressure sensor.
Personnally I purchased the MK60e5, with the internal sensor. The version is 860.3 and it's flashable from what I understand.
(I'm currectly at this point, in communication with a guy, in the UK and an other one in the USA, they may be able to flash the unit.).
If it's not possible to flash the unit, I will just use with the oem software.
I'm new to this, but I'm a BMW master technician and deal with this system for years.
from my understanding.
All MK60 can be used as a stand alone system. This is a functionnality in case there's an issue in the vehicle. The safety function will remain active.
Some MK60 unit are better than other, some are flashable, some are not. As you listed in you own comment.
Some require 2 yaw sensors (AWD, Active steering M5-M6).
There's a lot of tiny difference from one unit to the other. The most popular are the MK60 813.3 or 817.3 with the external pressure sensor.
Personnally I purchased the MK60e5, with the internal sensor. The version is 860.3 and it's flashable from what I understand.
(I'm currectly at this point, in communication with a guy, in the UK and an other one in the USA, they may be able to flash the unit.).
If it's not possible to flash the unit, I will just use with the oem software.
Thank you for the reply! I'm planning on using it for a street car build, matter of fact a FWD configuration....
I was mainly looking into MK60 because of ease of plumbing (no need for prop valve and such) and also 4 channel vs 3 channel on stock car with an ABS option.
Seems like wiring and plumbing also could be cleaner at the end because MK60 is a smaller standalone unit vs stock Assembly/Control unit.
I'm working on piecing this system together. and going through all the information I still have some questions.
first one is fittings. clearly I can see from the factory BMW parts that into the pump they use DIN style fittings and flares with the flat back for interface with the tube nuts. I have a K-tool flare tool that seems to do DIN, and SAE bubble, or SAE inverted flares pretty well and easy.
I don't see Brakequip as offering DIN tube nuts for the 12mmX1 ports and 3/16 line. the 12mmX1 tube nuts in DIN format only come in 1/4".
looks like people are actually using SAE bubble flares into the ABS block. does that actually work? seems like the format for the seat angle on the female side is actually a different angle between the formats. maybe its close enough to just bend the mushroom end of the tube to fit when tightened.
another thing I came across: In the past I have added pressure sensor ports directly in master cylinders by drilling out extra unused bosses and tapping to 1/8" NTP and have had no issues with that so I was searching for a Mazda style master cylinder that had extra bosses that I could drill and tap out. There are tones of variations in NB or NA style masters to choose from some aftermarket castings seem to just cast in all the bosses and drill out the ones needed for a specific fitment.
In the process of searching I stumbled on an 1988/89 Mazda 929 W/O abs and W active suspension. It has 4 outlet ports 2 on the side 2 on the bottom. It is 7/8". I think using adapters I can thread the two sensors into the bottom ports similar to the BMW master and eliminate a shed load of fittings, T's, and short line segments everybody is using. I plan on using a Honeddevelepments booster Delete block as well and I think 7/8" might feel fine with that. the one extra port is M14X1 but there are inserts that go from M14X1 to M10X1 and I think two BQ44 adapters could put both of the BMW pressure sensors straight into the bottom of the master like BMW does it.
Which sensor is this? Subaru forester, what years. What position on the car looks like they might have a different part# for each corner. I'm attempting to do this same thing.
Originally Posted by Twibs415
Circling back here. Took a bit of foot work to find the right sensor that I could adapt into Mr2s front hubs. I spoke with Doug and confirmed my suspicions. I ordered about a dozen different sensors and finally the one that worked best was a Subaru Forester abs sensor
Thanks for the quick response. So the modified bmw sensor worked? So I assume file it down a little to get it to fit up close to the tone ring oriented like this and figure out how to mount it to the cap in a way that also fits through the back of the knuckle and it works? looks like it will work I have version 2 front spindles bit tighter to fit out the back and have to be perfectly oriented.
Hopefully that give you an idea how far you can trim the sensor. The big part was getting the area around the wire trimmed for shock clearance. It’s not idea. But finding this particular style sensor in side reading wasn’t happening. Looked at all types of Volvo vw Porsche bmw sensors etc.
Yea I think I'm finding most all the sensors besides the E46 BMW MK60 are different type of sensor not just different geometry even if it has an ATE MK60 control unit. most sense off a magnetic ring rather than a tooth ring. The E92 MK60e5 uses magnetic rings. I'm curious what the guys trying to use those are doing for rings and sensors. Several of the sensors seem like they would physically fit the Toyota hubs on the drop spindles better but I don't think they work the same and are likely not electronically compatible. I had some concerns the smaller tone ring diameter could be an issue if maybe the teeth were too close together but If you got it working maybe that is not a problem.
I had some concerns the smaller tone ring diameter could be an issue if maybe the teeth were too close together but If you got it working maybe that is not a problem.
It would not be very hard to make new tone rings if that's the biggest hurdle. Im considering moving over to the E5 unit as well, but I need to do a bit more research before I pull the trigger on it. I love the e5 in my e90 m3, but that's factory integration so....
E5 uses magnetic reluctor rings and different sensors as far as I can tell. More stuff to figure out and another thing to figure out that I haven't seen anybody post how they have figured it out for a Miata yet. I have seen a very expensive solution for the Kiesler fronts.
It would not be very hard to make new tone rings if that's the biggest hurdle. Im considering moving over to the E5 unit as well, but I need to do a bit more research before I pull the trigger on it. I love the e5 in my e90 m3, but that's factory integration so....
A few guys started a Discord for the MK60/MK60E1/MK60E5, one of the guys in there is working on a digital converter for the MR.
As someone that likes to read about these grassroots developments more so than lead them, the movement of tech discussions from forums like MT to Facebook and Discord really sucks. Forum threads are searchable and referenceable in a way that modern social media just isn't.
As someone that likes to read about these grassroots developments more so than lead them, the movement of tech discussions from forums like MT to Facebook and Discord really sucks. Forum threads are searchable and referenceable in a way that modern social media just isn't.
I agree, Facebook/Discord/etc are going to lead to a large section of knowledge disappearing and slow overall growth, but here we are.
I decided I'm going to try and stuff the abs pump here with the Honed development booster delete. I want the other side for breathers and catch can. The master cylinder from an 95 ford escort GT manual with ABS has 4 ports. The bottom ones are M16X1.5 threads machined to seal with crush washers. I bought some thread reducers that go from M16X1.5 to M12X1 and seems like the BMW pressure sensors will seal just fine in the holes with crush washers. The master comes in either 7/8 or 15/16 bore with the same outlet configuration looks like 93 were 7/8, 95 are 15/16th the booster end is the same fit as an NA Miata. now to get the hard lines routed right.
11-02-2022, 09:56 AM
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