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Old 08-15-2013, 12:41 PM   #341
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I have done a couple engines this way, and went well past 300whp on stock pistons on e85. All said engines are still running great today

Actually will be doing a couple more this year: mine and an MSM I'm building
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Old 08-15-2013, 12:58 PM   #342
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Quote:
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I have done a couple engines this way, and went well past 300whp on stock pistons on e85. All said engines are still running great today

Actually will be doing a couple more this year: mine and an MSM I'm building
The MSM you almost beat in your N/A '01?

Definitely seems like a good move to do the mild build considering your goals. Also, I can only imagine how insane 300 whp is in one of these. My car was pretty bonkers at 250 ish.
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Old 08-15-2013, 01:02 PM   #343
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Oh yeah I know the stock pistons can take power.

But the fact that they only need to take 250wtq before the stock rods start bending means we don't have as precise data as we do for the rods.
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Old 08-15-2013, 01:10 PM   #344
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Originally Posted by turbofan View Post
The MSM you almost beat in your N/A '01?

Definitely seems like a good move to do the mild build considering your goals. Also, I can only imagine how insane 300 whp is in one of these. My car was pretty bonkers at 250 ish.
yep, lol.
I actually took "your" car with stock pistons to well past that too. I think the most I had it at was at 18-19psi which would be at least 340 or something. I lowered it down shortly after but man it was pretty intense at that power level.

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Originally Posted by thenuge26 View Post
Oh yeah I know the stock pistons can take power.

But the fact that they only need to take 250wtq before the stock rods start bending means we don't have as precise data as we do for the rods.
Hopefully we'll have more soon. Mine is on e85 so not as relevant, but this MSM will be on pump and his goal is 300whp.

I'm sure others have done this too, I think I remember Sav talking about it.

*edit: and looks like OP is going this direction too. At least for now lol
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Old 08-15-2013, 01:10 PM   #345
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I'm confident the motor will last at 280-300whp with a stock piston build on e85. I'm alright at tuning now days too, so that should help.

If my goal was to run pump gas I wouldn't even consider running the stock pistons at ~300whp. I'd just make the leap towards forged.

Soo.. m-tuned/ebay rods, oem rebuild, ARP studs, china turbo, and hopefully my clutch holds.

This sounds like my plan for now, as I can afford all of the above over a short period of time. A big plus for this build is that it will be cheap, barely more than a standard oem rebuild. This will be my "first" build on a BP motor (or ****, any motor) so having less invested in the motor is important to me just in case I **** it up somehow. Down the road I can build a proper motor and look into some kind of transmission swap, but that is all way beyond me now.


ALSO update on the car, got to drive it last night. Frame rails are a HUGE improvement. I could seriously feel the difference pulling out of the garage. The car feels much more solid, and has LESS nvh just driving down the road. ****, i thought it would make the car worse on my dirt road, but the car felt BETTER and more solid.

So far I'd say these were a greater improvement to chassis rigidity than my rollbar was. Need to do some real driving and hit some apexes and let you guys know how it really feels.
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Old 08-15-2013, 02:33 PM   #346
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I really need to man up and do frame rails. I've only heard awesome things about them. And for the price it seems stupid not to.
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Old 08-15-2013, 02:56 PM   #347
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yep.
and I think anyone that has an opportunity to do it should. why wouldn't you address the two things that directly affect compression and engine health?

honing/re-ringing is super easy and cheap too and I've no idea why people make a big deal about it. it would be beyond moronic to not do this 100 dollar 1 hour task and have nice fresh compression "while you're in there" vs stuffing them back in as is.

yes. done this before on some mint motors. they were literally showroom condition. I decided to keep em in there. those motors still run like champs.



because those of us running exclusively on e85 will easily get to 300 even 350 on teh stock slugs and enjoy a quiet oem-like operating motor and no oil consumption and no need to rebuild in 50k miles or whatever it is. also we're talking nearly 800 dollar difference.
Also there was much talk of most aftermarket slugs for the vvt motors making the engine semi-interference which is gay to say the least.
Vlad -
This talk of VVT and interference, where can I find out more about it ?? I have Wiseco 8.5:1 going in mine and found out I have to cut or ditch the main cap tray now I hear this? I'm hoping because I'm stock valves and such low comp that I'll have room



I did the rails partially so I could have a nice jacking point, and they look nice from underneath! I know it will stiffen a little but that wasn't only why I did it. It was also nice to get the old ones straight again, get some more undercoating on there and take a look under the carpet. All good reasons to install them. In your climate you can eliminate lots of the rust reasons. With your year of car any stiffners will help. Door bars are where it's at. Maybe next year, I still want good ingress/egress so I'm still debating.
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Old 08-15-2013, 03:02 PM   #348
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I assume Vlad is talking E85 pistons (so 11:1 or higher) were making the interference.
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Old 08-15-2013, 03:41 PM   #349
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jason c made a thread about it...he tested 8.6 supertechs and noticed interference with intake cam advance...look it up. we also recently had another discussion about it but totally forget which thread....I'll post up if I find it
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Old 08-15-2013, 04:43 PM   #350
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I really need to man up and do frame rails. I've only heard awesome things about them. And for the price it seems stupid not to.
My main advice would be to do them before they are mangled like mine were. Well, the drivers side at least was very mangled and hardly resembeled a frame rail after i used a c-clamp and hammered it out to fit the aftermarket ones.
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Old 08-15-2013, 05:01 PM   #351
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I'm even worse. I have them, and they are still sitting in my garage.
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Old 08-15-2013, 06:07 PM   #352
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jason c made a thread about it...he tested 8.6 supertechs and noticed interference with intake cam advance...look it up. we also recently had another discussion about it but totally forget which thread....I'll post up if I find it
Found it, read tonight - thanks
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Old 08-15-2013, 06:13 PM   #353
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I'm even worse. I have them, and they are still sitting in my garage.
That was me most of the summer . I was dreading pulling out the seats, but goddamn that is the easiest part. I had never pulled them on a miata, but have on other cars that were a huge PITA. Anyways i know they made a huge difference on my car with mangled frame rails, if you have perfect frame rails it may not make as much of an improvement, BUT even more reason to put them on as to protect your frame rails.

Oh and also.. lotus seats are exquisite. You can "feel" the road MUCH more, but they are still comfortable. Certainly not OEM seat comfortable, but they feel very awesome and sit me nice and low in the car. Hitting my head on the rollbar is no longer nearly as much of a threat.
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Old 08-15-2013, 06:23 PM   #354
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+1 the seats come out so easy.

Really so do the the sills and carpet comes up easy. Use a vice to squish the rails. Set a micrometer on the good part of the rails and use the "set gap" on the micrometer as a "go/no-go" gauge for how much to squeeze them back. Jack the rails in place solid and drill from the bottom up using holes as templates. (while burning metal lands on your arms). Drop rail, spray some undercoating around OEM rails and drill holes from top and bottom. Take a break. Let chems dry and lungs recover from fumes then install rail bolts - boom - bob's your uncle and your done.
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Old 08-15-2013, 06:48 PM   #355
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+1 the seats come out so easy.

Really so do the the sills and carpet comes up easy. Use a vice to squish the rails. Set a micrometer on the good part of the rails and use the "set gap" on the micrometer as a "go/no-go" gauge for how much to squeeze them back. Jack the rails in place solid and drill from the bottom up using holes as templates. (while burning metal lands on your arms). Drop rail, spray some undercoating around OEM rails and drill holes from top and bottom. Take a break. Let chems dry and lungs recover from fumes then install rail bolts - boom - bob's your uncle and your done.
Mine were a little more "mushroomed" so the process was slightly different. I used a c-clamp and a miniture vice to squish the rails back in, and had to resort to a bit of hammering too. Then i hit a wire wheel on the "reshaped" frame rails because the undercoating was chipped off anyways. I sprayed it with rustoleum paint to prevent rusting. Then I tapped the frame rails up into place with a rubber mallet. The rest was as you described, but i used a dab of silicone on each bolt as i put it in to seal the little holes.
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Old 08-15-2013, 07:02 PM   #356
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You guys need to shut the hell up about these "ghetto built" cheapass motors. I really don't want another project right now but now i'm curious to see what sort of retarded (like... stupid, but funny) midrange hump i could get by pushing the **** out of my little turbo on E85.
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Old 08-16-2013, 12:51 AM   #357
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You guys need to shut the hell up about these "ghetto built" cheapass motors. I really don't want another project right now but now i'm curious to see what sort of retarded (like... stupid, but funny) midrange hump i could get by pushing the **** out of my little turbo on E85.
Just talking about it is getting me all boned up for 300whp. Wanna touch tips?
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Old 08-16-2013, 11:42 AM   #358
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I know you guys will just LOVE this pic. LOL.



Seriously though, i love this car. Do you guys think matching the roll bar/tow hooks with the gold wheels would be too gaudy?
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Old 08-16-2013, 11:46 AM   #359
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I can't believe you can look at that diarrheal paint and sleep at night.

Seriously. It makes me want to poke my eyes out.

Don't worry about color matching anything until that is fixed.
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Old 08-16-2013, 11:52 AM   #360
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I can't believe you can look at that diarrheal paint and sleep at night.

Seriously. It makes me want to poke my eyes out.

Don't worry about color matching anything until that is fixed.
LOL thanks for the compliment. Honestly the paint doesn't bother me right now, although it's certainly on the list. The body is perfect so not much work to do before painting, but i'd rather spend the $$ and time on achieving 300whp than a paintjob.

Give me time man, it's a project.

Edit: ALSO, not painting it until next year when i have a carport/garage at my property. As of right now it gets parked right in the sun.. all day everyday. No paint jobs last out here unless you have a shade spot to park in. The sun even eats my reflective windshield sun blocker thing, i have to get a new one every few months because they completely fall apart.
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