Fireindc's attempt to build a decent miata. (the search for more torque). - Page 11 - Miata Turbo Forum - Boost cars, acquire cats.

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Old 06-23-2013, 10:23 PM   #201
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Damn man. You're always full of bad news, and stupid little problems.

Hope you get it worked out and good luck.
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Old 06-23-2013, 11:32 PM   #202
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Yeah, going to have to work this out one issue at a time.

My fan issue is very weird, turn the fans on "inverted" in MS and it comes on. Of course they are ALWAYS on no matter what the settings when you turn it on inverted..

I'm going to start back on the basics. Reflash firmware, load old map that was working with no det, verify base timing, etc.
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Old 06-24-2013, 11:17 AM   #203
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If I were you, I would try to figure out the detonation issue before switching to E85.

Don't use E85 to band-aid some issue that has recently popped up, otherwise it might come back to haunt you?

Sounds like you're having some nagging issues, they sure can be frustrating but it sounds like your close to having the car run really well. Hopefully it will be reliable and consistent once you get these issues ironed out.

Good luck
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Old 06-24-2013, 12:55 PM   #204
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Good advice. I'm working on the det issue first and foremost. That and the radiator fan. Parts for the front main should be here this week and I can knock that out this weekend.

I'm hoping everything will fall back into place here.
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Old 06-24-2013, 01:03 PM   #205
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It will, man. Just keep going at it!
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Old 06-24-2013, 01:11 PM   #206
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Just a guess, but is it possible you're getting blow-by that is at the same time throwing off your afr's and causing det?
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Old 06-24-2013, 01:39 PM   #207
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Quote:
Originally Posted by 18psi View Post
Just a guess, but is it possible you're getting blow-by that is at the same time throwing off your afr's and causing det?
Anything is possible, but blow by seems pretty minimal on this motor so far. Minimal catch can collections, good wet vs dry compression when tested, etc.

I guess it's worth noting my smoking issue is gone since the .055 restrictor, both off the turbo CHRA and out the exhaust.

I do have a spare motor if push came to shove, but I don't think it's necessary at this point.

The weird thing about the det I'm having, is afrs are prefect on the gauge. I also looked at some logs I took and the det is happening around a new found boost spike to 14psi. Why the hell is it spiking all of the sudden? I'm going to get the boost dialed to a flat 10psi and try some more testing.

Thanks for the ideas guys.
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Old 06-24-2013, 11:14 PM   #208
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Okay guys, i hate my car. Here's where I'm at.

1) re-flashed firmware. hi res code 10g, blah blah. This miraculously fixes my fan. YAY! Corruption sucks. I think it got corrupted last time when the computer was connecting the the ECM and the cable lost connection for a second.

2) Verified base timing. ***** legit, 10degs when told to do so. Revved the motor, timing stays 10 degrees, so latency doesn't seem to be an issue.

3) wbo2 is almost definately working right. Got cruise cells tuned in really good and the car feels great.

4) went back to the stock 99-00 basemap that comes with the 99-00 mspnp. And played with some more tuning.

AFRS fattened out to 11.5 or so in boost. Stock MSPNP map shows a flickering on the OPG (real gauge).

Gradually took timing out of the map and did pull after pull. Got to the point where i was -6 degrees below the mspnp map (which i've read is VERY conservative and should be fine on my **** poor 91 octane anyways). ******* gauge still flickers.

Seems no matter what I do that little guage wants to bounce. I have my oil feed for the turbo Teed off it, and its coming straight off the block.

How accurate is the OPG twitch= det thing? Am i over-analyzing some ****? It seems like the OPG has been moving around a lot more since i went to 5w40 t6 oil, and has been fluctuating more sense. I've still yet to "hear" the knock, only have seen it on the gauge where the needle flickers to the left suddenly at around 4500-5k rpms. The motor pulls smooth and sounds good to me, but again I have a loud exhaust and may be missing the knock.

Vlad, if the motor had blowby causing knock wouldn't retarding timing get rid of it after a certain point? I'm talking about 15-16 degs of timing (down from 22 or so on the basemap) at 156kpa and still seeing the gauge flicker.

Now I'm going to relax, order a leakdown tester and some det phones online and try not to loose much sleep over this. Please give me any insight you may have. I love you all.
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Old 06-25-2013, 01:55 AM   #209
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Det cans


det cans det cans det cans

leakdown test is a good idea too
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Old 06-25-2013, 03:02 PM   #210
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Quality leakdown tester purchased and on its way. Looks like I'm going to have to build my own det-cans. Any suggestions on what route to go with this? Mechanical vs digital det cans, which do you prefer? I found a great thread from hornetball on building the digital ones, so i may just give that a shot.

https://www.miataturbo.net/ecus-tuni...example-61616/

Too bad there's not a radio shack local, really makes small projects like this a complete PITA.. lol.
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Old 06-25-2013, 03:14 PM   #211
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ask Shuiends if you can borrow my det can.
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Old 06-25-2013, 03:20 PM   #212
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If you make the drive down you can borrow my cans.
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Old 06-25-2013, 04:49 PM   #213
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I've still got a set of the ones one of the members on here was selling. They rock. Although after my last move who knows where they are in the garage.
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Old 06-25-2013, 05:07 PM   #214
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I'm really thinking the OPG is wonky on my car. Sometimes when the car is warming up the OPG twitches anyways. And honestly I really don't think there is anyway the car was detonating with 16 degs of timing and 11.5 afrs at 156kpa.

I have a spare OPG on the 94 motor that should be the same real mechanical type as my 90's. This one has lower miles and I'm going to swap it on and see how it reacts.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Braineack View Post
ask Shuiends if you can borrow my det can.
Thanks Brain, I'll PM him.

Quote:
Originally Posted by BenR View Post
If you make the drive down you can borrow my cans.
Awesome offer, thanks. I'm not sure I want to make the drive until I have the car tuned to my liking though. I could drive it down there out of boost easily though, maybe I will and I can get a second opinion on what it's doing. I'll keep you posted on that.

Quote:
Originally Posted by FRT_Fun View Post
I've still got a set of the ones one of the members on here was selling. They rock. Although after my last move who knows where they are in the garage.
I remember these. I wish I had bought a set at the time. Doh. If you find them and want to let me borrow (or straight up sell) them, let me know!
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Old 07-01-2013, 02:42 PM   #215
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Got my FM front main seal installer kit and a new OEM mazda front main seal. Going to leakdown test the motor before I do that though, because I want to be 100% sure I don't have excessive leakdown before I put more time into this motor. I have a spare in the garage as well, so I'll leakdown test it too. That tool should be here early this week. So worst case if this motor isn't up to spec I'll be swapping in another one.



And.. I bought tires. LOL, I bought tires for 15" wheels that I don't have yet. Basically there was a really good ebay sale on federal 595 rs-r's for 104.00 each shipped. I paid a total of 419.00 for 4 of them after shipping. They should be SO MANY leagues better than what I have.. I'm excited.

Wheels.. I'm now leaning towards the wideopens as I like the rpf1 look on the NA chassis. Of course I'd be open to a used set of 6uls if I could find them. Looking to spend less than $500.00 on wheels.


Annnnd gotta build some det phones too.. lol. fun fun.
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Old 07-01-2013, 04:14 PM   #216
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LOL I have a tab open in Firefox with those very tires at Onlinetires.com. I'm going to give them a shot as well. How wide did you go? 225? They have a set of (4) 205/50/15 for $350 shipped which is what I'm going to grab.
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Old 07-01-2013, 05:18 PM   #217
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Want to rent out the main seal tool?



We need an FM complete tool rental package going around the world.
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Old 07-01-2013, 06:50 PM   #218
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Quote:
Originally Posted by matthewdesigns View Post
LOL I have a tab open in Firefox with those very tires at Onlinetires.com. I'm going to give them a shot as well. How wide did you go? 225? They have a set of (4) 205/50/15 for $350 shipped which is what I'm going to grab.
Damn it, **** me! lol I thought 419.00 was a steal, $350 dude! do it. 205/50/15 is what I got as well.

Just checked and on that site shipped to me they want $365, still a better deal than I got.. oh well. Live and learn, site bookmarked for later usage.
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Old 07-01-2013, 06:51 PM   #219
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Landrew View Post
Want to rent out the main seal tool?



We need an FM complete tool rental package going around the world.
I might rent it out after I'm done with it. Give me a week or so to get the leakdown results for this motor in so I can decide how to proceed with this pos.
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Old 07-07-2013, 04:04 PM   #220
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Quick update here. Did a leakdown test on my motor(s). On the 99 in my car I got.

Cyl #1: 10% - Only heard air coming through the oil fill cap.
Cyl #2: 17% - Air could be heard from the oil fill cap and the exhaust.
Cyl #3: 27% - Air could be heard from the oil fill cap and the exhaust.
Cyl #4: 9% - I only detected air from the oil fill cap.

Judging from this and the wet/dry compression test done on this motor before where the wet compression was barely any higher than the dry test (within 5psi) I'd say cyl 2 and 3 is mostly the valves leaking and the rings are the same as the other cylinders.

What do you guys think about that? Here are my thoughts right now. Run e85, bigger turbo, lots of boost, build spare block in the meantime.

Would it be worth running some seafoam through the intake manifold to try and clear up those exhaust valves that aren't quite sealing? I may try this. Also, if the valves were out of adjustment could they cause this kind of leakdown results?

The other motor which was dead cold and sitting my my garage got terrible leakdown results, almost every cylinder leaking through the valves one way or another significantly. However, this is the motor I'm building so I really don't care.

Also tore apart the front of the motor and replaced the front main seal. ****** still leaks.. it's the cam seals. I SHOULD have done those at the same time, but silly me was confident it was the front main. Oh well, live and learn. Cam seals ordered and I get to tear her down again.

On a side note the FM tools do make this substantially easier. +1 for that.

Edit: oh and in regards to my det problem. I lowered the boost to a solid 9psi or so instead of a 13+ spike and sitting at 10 by redline and put in some fresh 91 from the chevron. As of last night I didn't see the needle bobble like it was. Seems to be fixed for now. Also went ahead and ordered stuff to build the "harbor freight" det cans.
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