Sixshooter's Slow Torture™ Build Thread
 

I thought it was probably time to begin documenting my modifications, trials, and errors so that my pathway might be traced before the birds eat all of the breadcrumbs.

This thread is named as an homage to the worst grossing film Peter Dragon ever produced, and is a name that evokes both the flavour and pace of the project. The car was purchased in the late summer of '08 and I became a member and subscriber here that November, and yet the car remained on stock power ...until this very weekend.

Now it doesn't run at all.

The MS1 I installed this weekend won't crank it...

More to follow.

EDIT:
Details: I bought the Brain MS1 secondhand a couple or three years ago but it was never installed by the PO. It had a couple of harness issues that I found and corrected. I thought I remembered it supposedly had a base map for rx7 460 injectors. So, I had a set cleaned about 2 years ago. I installed the MS and the 460's this weekend and it sputtered and ran on a couple of cyls for a moment. One of the 460's was stuck open. Pulled them and put stock inj's back in. Started looking at making adjustments for stock inj's to run but it looks like the req fuel for them might be what is already on the MS. So...It doesn't crank even though my req fuel is at 13. I am ignant enuf to need help at this point because my reading in the MegaManual and teh forumz hasn't told me what I really need to know yet.

Ancient history timeline:
2008 - Sold tired FC RX7 and bought '96 Miata because 500lbs lighter
Mishimoto 52mm radiator
ACT HDSS and chromoly lightweight flywheel
Hankook RS2's on factory hollow spokes
Hawk HPS pads for first few years (by accident, I tried to order HP+), later switched to HP+
NB "Hard S" Bilsteins acquired used with 400 miles on them
Ground Control coilover sleeves
450/275 springs
FM sway bars, 1"F and 5/8"R
949 endlinks
Hard Dog DD M2 Sport with padding
Kirkey Pro Drag seats 16"
Momo Steering wheel with quick release


more to be listed

won crank or wont start?

Cranks but won't start. I put a copy of the msq here. Is that msq for 265cc injectors and a MAF delete or not?

i cant look until I go home.

That's fine. Thanks for the help.

Yay the shooter is gonna make a build thread....thats already started in fail like mine yaaayyy lol

Cool, in on this.

And so it begins.

Dear lord dont rely on my tuning abilities but why are the first two cells on your afr table 12.2? Or is that a n/a or narrowband thing?

Well, that's the default tune that was in the MS when I got it. I did futz with the req fuel and the cranking PW's quite a little bit after that with no luck, but this is how it came.

Are the MS1's particularly picky about voltage dropping off while cranking? I'm racking my brain but even when hooked to a battery charger the cranking voltage on the TS dashboard was hitting 7-8v while spinning over and going right back to ~12.7v between cranks.

I still don't know if this is a 265 or 460cc basemap for sure.

What size injector is entered in the req. fuel menu?

Edit: try this map. It's my old brainysack MS1 map, post-dyno. Stock 94 1.8 265cc injectors. Should be close enough to get you started.

Set spark inverted to NO if you haven't done the necessary mods. I will not buy you a new coilpack;)

Thanks for the assistance. I welcome the help. I'll see if I can get it to crank here this weekend. Brain just sent me a map and some more info, too. Wish me luck.

subbed because one day we will meet and it will be a momentous occasion.

And running MS/Extra hr_10g is correct as well?

should be.

I put the stock computer in and ran it for a couple of minutes. I tested the voltage at the diagnostic port when cranking and running between b+ and F/P there is 12v.

When trying to crank on the MS I get nothing at those same connections even though TS is showing the fuel pump as on (green light). It does sputter a bit but never catches. I wonder about the fuel pump connection rewire I did on the 64pin. Or what else could be wrong. I'm taking a lunch break because I'm getting a headache.

I also verified the base timing when I had the stock computer on the car. It was at true zero when ten and gnd were connected and not 10 BTDC.

jump f/p and gnd and try...

but lt. green wire is corrrect.


f/p shoudl be a ground dude.... its possible it goes to 12v during cranking, but i dunno what youre doing voltage drops on cranking, that's normal...we need more infoz. like are you getting rpms in TS, do you have spark, do you have fuel...

I am getting 260 to 290 rpm RPM cranking in TS.

I do have spark. Troy said spark pops good and hard when I crank it over.

What I was getting at with fueling was that F/P does become a ground with the stock ECU when cranking or running. It doesn't do it with the MS when cranking. I dunno about running because it won't run.

That's my next move.

in! Good luck Steve.

I also had some issue with the FP not starting with the MS - simply hard-wired the pump through a manual on/off switch controlling a relay - I wasn't gonna screw around with it and get a migrate. Hope you figure it out

Oh, really? I wonder why. I know that TS thinks it is being switched on. Maybe I can test the lead coming out of the MS harness with my multimeter and see what that tells me.

I'll do that right after I jump f/p to gnd and see if it cranks. I'd love to have it fire right up and let me know I'm on the right track.

Thanks! All support is welcome!

Car cranks up and runs fine when jumpered.

I've got to figure out what is keeping it from turning on with the MS.

Hmmm.

When looking at the picture below from your harness thread it appears you do not have the FP wire hooked from your ms to you stock harness. That would cause FP not to run.

https://www.miataturbo.net/attachmen...ine=1325354421
https://www.miataturbo.net/attachmen...ine=1325354421

Very good catch, but that diagram is actually incorrect as Brain knew and I figured out in the other thread. We probably need to redraw that diagram. The fuel pump switching circuit is a light green wire that is located a few pins over from where it is listed there. I've been learning my way around TS here for the last hour or so since it was running instead of chasing the F/P circuit problem down. But I need to see if the signal is getting from the MS to the car's harness. I'll check continuity first.

Fairly certain this happened to mine. I just jumped the f/p and left it heh. Wonder what the issue is.

Look at the purple wire I circled and then look at the spot that I circled that is open. If that purple wire is correct and hooked to ping 37 of the DB-37 then it is in the wrong spot on your yellow connector.
https://www.miataturbo.net/attachmen...ine=1326055249

I also checked the diagram that Braineack made against my 96 wiring diagram and he does have the FP wired to the right place on his document.

Thanks for the call and for looking out for me.
The harness pictured is how I received it and is wrong and has been changed. It was wrong and part of the posted diagram is wrong. The green FP wire enters into a different location on the 64pin (thanks Haynes manual) and the p[urple wire now goes to it but the MS doesn't seem to be switching it on. I used a heavy staple from my staplegun to permanently jump f/p to gnd in my diagnostic box. It sits flush and will work fine until any better solution arises. The high current side of the fuel pump relay is switched with the ignition anyway so this works fine.

The car runs fine except for a choke out when you first hit the throttle. I'm sure there is a thread waiting to be found regarding tuning this out, but it was a long time ago that I read anything about it. Much studying to do on it.

Did you move it to the pin lars circled?

I'll need to look when I get home what the pin location was. I am certain it had the light green wire on it, if that helps.

cause you really want the MS to control it. jumping the pump was so 2006, and exclusive to lazy 90-93 installers.

Well I need to see if the MS is sending out a ground signal to the purple wire, then.

Yup - that's me entirely :) but I wanted to add a cool switch with a little red light :loser:

Jump it - you're wasting time

Is this how you get all that time kamikaze diving into braking zones? hahah.

LOL! somehow this does not surprise me :giggle:

Sounds like words from a guy who rather stand around and drink beer watching some poor shmucks try to align their car in the middle of the night... :) lol

You missed that one Steve... I was quite the helper (I'm just getting too old to roll around on the ground)

I didn't help them either. I was too busy putting my Hawk pads on in the dark to try to help anyone else. Thankfully Lars was helping me. I had been up since 4am and was out of steam. And it was cold and windy out there. I'm lucky I got finished with my own car. I'll be more rested and social with you guys next time.

That reminds me of what we called the poor bastards that worked on their cars on bare ground. Dirt daubers. :giggle:

Is that what its called nowadays??

Dont worry about it six. We all have those days!

do what you gotta do man. we may have been rolling around freezing try to figure out alignment woes, but I put my fastest time down the next day. I think it was well worth it considering I shed almost 2 seconds.

so if you crash and your RPMs drop to zero, your pump will stay on?

he runs a switch. During crash events...well he has been trained to :turn off ignition, flip fuel pump switch, and call for the ambalamps.

What now OnStar? which btw raises an interesting question, if you wreck a new chevy on track would OnStar contact the police/ambulance and send them to the race track?

Fuel pump should still turn off automatically...

Haven't messed with it during the week yet. This weekend I'll get at it. I've had activities and such in the evenings this week. I have a business association meeting tonight, it was my birthday, etc.

good point - in for thermistor deployed fire extinguishing system.

Just didn't understand why a MSPnP kept the pump from coming on. Not very PnP if you ask me then - I had to get it moved out of the guys shop so I bypassed with a switch and guess never looked back.

Joe - the only reason you picked up 2 sec is b/c your in the middle of puberty and your balls grew slightly to push it into the corners faster :fawk: but good for you that you picked up 2 secs - have you put your car on a rack to check that alignment since then?

Happy Birthday old fart!

??? It doesn't. The MSPNP runs the fuel pump just like the stock ECU. what you probably did was fail to remove the ST_SIGN fuse and blew up the driver that activates the fuel pump relay as per the installation manual.

:noob:

:fawk:

Is that something I should have done on mine too, or is that just for the MSPNP?

90-93 MSPNP only. (or any other 90-93 MS installs that happened to use the same method to trigger the FPR)

Do I need to run easytherm or is the MS setup for the stock CLT sender and the GM IAT?

(didn't come with instructions :rofl: )

i'm 80% sure that's what it's flashed to. You acutally will need three .inc files that you need to add to the CFG folder for your TS project.

http://www.boostedmiata.com/MS/msq/T...6L_standalone/

this makes sure the laptop displays whatever is loaded into the MS.

Does it matter that the page you linked for me says 1.6l and I have a '96 1.8l?

nope.

Hmmm... at least I CAN say, is that I didn't install it - I'll have to hit the noob that installed that put the turbo together... he just installed a MS prior to my car, but probably not a PnP and didn't follow da instructions (most assuredly). So If I were to repair it, shall I send it to you? It will eventually make it into my street '93 (this year I hope) and don't want a pretty lighted switch - a nice stereo will suffice.

So did Steve get some b-day loving from the honey? :makeout:

:fawk:

OK, tested the output on the purple fuel pump wire coming out of the MS and it is ~7v positive when engine is running and other end is disconnected from the car harness. So that is +7v output from MS.

^Yeah. What he said. Help with the fuel pump question!


On a side note, I'm not a fan of cobbling together intercooler piping from oddball pieces I inherited. I need to quit being so cheap or people will likely start hucking rocks at me.

I really hate the tight distance between the throttle body and the stock fans when using the thick 53mm radiator.

I worked on the dashpot settings to keep the car from shutting off when the A/C is running and you lift off throttle. Lots of info on here and the DIYAutotune and msextra sites.

The MS1 seems to be weird about the closed loop idle recovery for just switching on headlights and A/C but there is also some good info out there for that. I just don't have it quite right yet. Better, but not solved. I will continue to play with it. It needs to recover more rapidly when loads are introduced but not oscillate.

and it's on pin 37 on the db37?

I'll look at that end of the harness when I get home and post the results.

Yeah, I still haven't gotten around to disassembling the harness end and checking that.

But I did mount my intercooler, buy and test fit all of my piping, elbows and clamps. Some of it came with the parts car and some was purchased. I had to trim the mouth opening plastic to mount the intercooler but tried to leave it intact as much as I could. I'll seal it up well when I'm done.

I have two cast iron turbo manifolds to choose from, an HKS top mount and a FM side mount. And I have a genuine Garrett journal bearing 2860 from a non-automotive application. The Garrett was too large externally to work with either of these manifolds because of the inlet leg on the turbine housing being slightly longer than typical automotive turbine housings. I almost just swapped exhaust housings to lose the extra 3/4 inch but didn't. The compressor housing is slightly larger externally as well. Pic:

https://www.miataturbo.net/attachmen...ine=1330087752

This would have worked with a different manifold but I am in a hurry.

So I bought and test fitted a Chinese 2870 that seems to fit well enough with the FM mani. It was a little large for the HKS top mount's hood clearance.

I did bend the frame rail lip down to allow for engine movement.

https://www.miataturbo.net/attachmen...ine=1330087752

https://www.miataturbo.net/attachmen...ine=1330087752

https://www.miataturbo.net/attachmen...ine=1330087752

I didn't like the tight radius that was going to be necessary for the downpipe to make right out of the turbine housing, so I removed the part of the shelf just below the heater core nipples just like the V8 conversion guys do.

https://www.miataturbo.net/attachmen...ine=1330087752

https://www.miataturbo.net/attachmen...ine=1330087752

What remains is to disassemble everything and reassemble correctly with proper hardware and to reroute lines and wires. Then I need to get everything heat shielded and the downpipe routed and installed.


Edit: Crappy cell phone pic of mock up-

http://i804.photobucket.com/albums/y...owinstalt2.jpg

Well, I picked the car up on Friday afternoon and drove it home with the default MS base tune boost cut still on. It is 3 inch diameter pipe all the way from the turbine to the muffler outlet. It is an HKS HiPower muffler that was on my parts car for those of you keeping score. It has a ridonkulous 5 or 6 inch diameter tip built into it with the HKS logo engraved in it. It sounds deep and full of bass without any raspyness at all. It looks Ricey as fawk which I'm not keen about, but the sound is deep and mellow. The downpipe isn't perfect but it is workable and will do for now.

I worked on covering braking components and heater hoses with shielding to protect them from the heat off the turbine and downpipe. I made some progress but I'm not done. Pics tomorrow if you are good boys and girls.

I adjusted the wastegate arm so that the wastegate was slightly open at rest and set the overboost cut at 160kpa (around 8.5psi). I did this to try to eliminate the chances of overboosting until everything is broken in and tested for leaks and double checked. I did a little driving around. It is a nice thing to feel when the air starts to rush and you feel the welcome surge of extra power. Even with the wastegate propped partially open it feels compelling in that way that only turbos can. I've waited too long for a turbocharged car of my own and am satisfied and content in a special way that I put so much of my own work into it and made it happen from a pile of spare parts, a couple of new parts, and a lot of reckoning and wrenching. I feel satisfaction. And hope.

I have hope that even at the diminutive pressure level that the car achieves at present, it would keep much of the lesser traffic from running away from me on the track straightaways as they had before. I have hope that I will get those point-bys that I have been wrongfully denied in the past. The car is definitely not a fast car, but it's doing a little better and it is a welcome change.

Is there a point where the stock FPR must be upgraded to aftermarket if I am still on the stock fuel pump? I didn't think so unless I upgraded the pump but I thought I had seen it on someone else's build.

Well looky there. :giggle:

I was suprised how well the car ran with the wastegate open. I can't wait to get a ride when it is all buttoned up. Soon?