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Old 10-12-2012, 02:45 PM   #221
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I never talked about the liquidizing of all those companies... Because it's just how market works. and I agree that many saw the closing of those workplaces as a way to get more money while out on a witch hunt.
But Romney has shown time and time again that he is devoid of all sympathy. I'm not talking about how he runs a company, but how he treats ethical issues.

And I like how you try to hint that I'm unfortunate and that's why I oppose Romney. I just recently started a production myself. I'm creating jobs right now in Iceland and the US. There is not the slightest hint of butthurt here, I admit that it would be nice not to pay taxes. But I realize that it's my responsibility as a member of the country I live in.

Edit: I have to log off now. Finals coming up and the books are calling
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Old 10-12-2012, 02:58 PM   #222
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And I like how you try to hint that I'm unfortunate and that's why I oppose Romney. I just recently started a production myself. I'm creating jobs right now in Iceland and the US. There is not the slightest hint of butthurt here, I admit that it would be nice not to pay taxes. But I realize that it's my responsibility as a member of the country I live in.
I wasn't really trying to imply anything about you. I kind of just got on a small rant and was expressing my frustration with people that often argue that angle.

I am glad that you are starting a business and I wish you luck.

I am not sure where you are getting this idea that Romney is going to reduce business taxes to nothing, unless this is just your opinion on what he will actually do, since his policy says nothing of the sort.

The idea is to take the corporate tax rate and reduce it from the current rate, which is the highest rate in the developed world, to around 25% which is the average global corporate tax.

The claim that this and tax cuts to the wealthy will add to the burden of the middle class is also laughable. Even Obama's own staff has admitted that the Romney plan at most cuts $1 trillion is tax revenue instead of the $5 trillion Obama keeps touting in his speeches. Many other independent studies have proven that it would add no burden to the middle class because minimizing the tax rate results in increasing tax revenue until you get to around 15%, as has been proven by many other countries and throughout history if you actually look at the data.

It is really easy for most people to hate on Romney/Ryan because of how well liberals play on emotion to cover up any logical falacies in their arguments. If you want to actually sit down and go through the numbers, however, you'll have to be in straight denial to think Obama's plan is good for the economy.
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Old 10-12-2012, 03:10 PM   #223
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(I hate that I feel like I have to explain/defend Romney's tax plan, but here goes...)

The key to understanding what Romney is proposing is that it's a twofold plan. If you discuss one part of it without also mentioning the other part, then the claimed results won't make sense.

The two main parts:

1. Lower the base rates for corporate income tax across the board.

2. Eliminate the vast majority of corporate tax loopholes.

The claim he's making is that the overall tax revenue from corporations will be essentially unchanged, because the decrease in the nominal income tax rate will be offset by the elimination of tax loopholes corporations use to avoid their tax obligation.

The next question is, of course, why bother doing this if the revenue is unaffected.

The reason is ultimately efficiency and fairness. Efficiency, because a simpler, tighter tax code means companies will have less incentive to use up resources seeking out beneficial tax loopholes (that is, right now companies are using resources -- labor and money -- not to produce anything, but simply to lobby, discover, and exploit advantageous tax law). Fairness, because tax loopholes affect different companies differently, picking winners and losers based on company size, industry, political goals, and so on.

Now, whether or not that plan is (1) coherent and (2) achievable can be debated, but it's silly to debate either half of the twofold plan as if it's the focus of the entire plan.
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Old 10-12-2012, 03:15 PM   #224
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Romney wants to run education like a business. He believes the problem with low performing schools is the teachers, not the fact that a 9 year old has one parent who's working 9pm-5am and no food or clothes. Quite frankly, that same 9 year old will tell a teacher himself that he "doesn't give a **** about anything," because that's what mommy taught him. He wants to hold districts and states accountable for the results of classroom teachers. The districts and states are just as disconnected from the daily classroom activities as Romney is. The solution to "bad schools" needs to be a comprehensive analysis of the educational improvements of students against their learning environment outside of school. Otherwise, when a 7th grader reading at a 4th grade level fails the 7th grade English class, the teacher feels the wrath of Romney.

Romney hates women also. It's true.
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Old 10-12-2012, 03:18 PM   #225
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If Romney did absolutely nothing, it would still be better than pissing away billions of dollars as Obama has done. Solyndra anyone?
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Old 10-12-2012, 03:21 PM   #226
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I dont buy anything, because 50 years ago things used to be produced by humans in america.

I especially dont buy things at Staples.
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Old 10-12-2012, 03:24 PM   #227
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The best way to deal with education is to move to a charter school type format. They have proven time and time again that these school produce results in even the most challenged demographics.

You cannot manage the challenges that different areas face in education from a central authority. You need to give individual schools the room to experiement with how they teach. This often times inspires teachers to try harder and keep their passion instead of getting sucked dry by the extensive rule set and retarded curiculum that they have to follow now while it is all managed by an administration that has no clue wtf is going on.
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Old 10-12-2012, 03:26 PM   #228
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Originally Posted by cymx5 View Post
The solution to "bad schools" needs to be a comprehensive analysis of the educational improvements of students against their learning environment outside of school. Otherwise, when a 7th grader reading at a 4th grade level fails the 7th grade English class, the teacher feels the wrath of Romney.
that's not a solution, that's a fact finding mission.

Hell the Labor Department puts out record low unemployee numbers for this month. But turns out they forgot to include one of the 50 states. and now they wont release what state's data they forgot to include and have yet to fix the numbers.

You think the Gov't can fix schools? Meanwhile, teachers unions are still ruining public education and charter schools are putting them to shame.


Quote:
Romney hates women also. It's true.
you're a moran (not to be confused with mormon). it's a fact.

yep, just like Joe Biden, if we say things are a fact, it's true.

For example:

"No religious institution, Catholic or otherwise...has to be a vehicle to get contraception in any insurance policy they provide. That is a fact." - Biden Oct 11 2012

I think Sandra Fluke has something to say on this.
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Old 10-12-2012, 03:58 PM   #229
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Originally Posted by cymx5 View Post
Romney wants to run education like a business. He believes the problem with low performing schools is the teachers, not the fact that a 9 year old has one parent who's working 9pm-5am and no food or clothes.
[...]
Romney hates women also. It's true.
I don't know why I am bothering, but do you have any evidence that supports this assertion that he views education so binarily? For example, something from his governing history or a proposal he has made?
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Old 10-12-2012, 04:03 PM   #230
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For example, something from his governing history or a proposal he has made?
It's a fact that Romney wants to fire all women teachers.
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Old 10-12-2012, 04:10 PM   #231
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I thought I remembered Biden claiming that he voted against "putting two wars on the credit card" last night but I forgot to look it up until just now.

Yeah, he was lying.

Biden Claims He Voted Against Afghanistan, Iraq Wars | Washington Free Beacon

Or, possibly, he misspoke. Oh wait, Biden always says what he means.
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Old 10-12-2012, 04:11 PM   #232
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well jobs is a three letter words you know.
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Old 10-12-2012, 04:33 PM   #233
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Quote:
Originally Posted by cymx5 View Post
Romney wants to run education like a business. He believes the problem with low performing schools is the teachers, not the fact that a 9 year old has one parent who's working 9pm-5am and no food or clothes. Quite frankly, that same 9 year old will tell a teacher himself that he "doesn't give a **** about anything," because that's what mommy taught him. He wants to hold districts and states accountable for the results of classroom teachers. The districts and states are just as disconnected from the daily classroom activities as Romney is.
From his campaign website:
Quote:
Mitt’s reforms will provide better information for parents through straightforward public report cards and will empower them to hold districts and states responsible for results. When combined with increased parental choice, this will give parents more control over their children’s education.
It's a business to him.

The company don't hit your quarterly earnings, your stock tanks and investors flee.

The teacher doesn't hit a quarterly standardized test percentage and they're fired and parents flee to a different school. (In Romney's plan)

The investors and parents aren't accountable for the results. The upper management and teachers are scapegoats for the flood that wiped out the factory or the student that always skipped class.
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Old 10-12-2012, 04:35 PM   #234
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has that been proven not to work?
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Old 10-12-2012, 05:10 PM   #235
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has that been proven not to work?
Yep pretty much, like No Child Left Behind. With the continued fall of the nations standing in education. It is a failed Idea.
Bob
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Old 10-12-2012, 05:26 PM   #236
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Yep pretty much, like No Child Left Behind. With the continued fall of the nations standing in education. It is a failed Idea.
Bob
No Child Left Behind does not hold teachers or administrators accountable for anything. All it does is adjust their schools funding, which has no effect on their paycheck.

It is a terrible law but has nothing to do with the kind of reforms Romney is proposing. In fact, what Romney is proposing is already sweeping the nation through state level reform and is a new concept in terms of actual implementation.

I don't think just telling teachers this is where your students need to be or you're fired without changing anything else will work because you are demanding results without providing the tools or structure. That is not even what Romney is proposing or what the reforms that have been passed have been about either.
The idea is to give teachers more freedom with how they teach and in return for this freedom demand a reasonable level of results.
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Old 10-12-2012, 06:32 PM   #237
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why do we even need education? we should just give everyone a govt job, paid for by the fat cats, and no one can ever get fired. the solution is flawless and grand.
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Old 10-12-2012, 06:38 PM   #238
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Old 10-12-2012, 08:42 PM   #239
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why do we even need education? we should just give everyone a govt job, paid for by the fat cats, and no one can ever get fired. the solution is flawless and grand.
Isn't that how Greece worked the past five years?

Sell bad bonds and create gov't. jobs?
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Old 10-13-2012, 07:27 PM   #240
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Id love to be like greece.
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