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DIY Turbo Discussion greddy on a 1.8? homebrew kit?

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Old 06-22-2012, 02:31 AM   #181
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Quote:
4th Gear Pull, flat footed it at about 2K rpms but I'm in vac until roughly 3400 so that's where the data starts here.
Somethings seriously wrong - you should be at/near full boost at 3.4k rpm
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Old 06-22-2012, 10:26 AM   #182
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Turbo spins freely and doesn't make any noise so it's not bound. IC routing is "down and around", nothing terribly convoluted. BLT checked out ok. And while my timing is pretty conservative at this point, I don't think I'm going to get 1500rpm out of it. I've got my knock sensor mounted pretty low on the block, but once I move it up to the top of the block I'll get a little more aggressive with timing and see what comes from it. I'd definitely like the powerband to shift down about 2K rpm, though. May go to a smaller (T25/28) turbo if I can't get this one to do what I want.
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Old 06-22-2012, 12:12 PM   #183
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Quote:
Originally Posted by matthewdesigns View Post
Turbo spins freely and doesn't make any noise so it's not bound. IC routing is "down and around", nothing terribly convoluted. BLT checked out ok. And while my timing is pretty conservative at this point, I don't think I'm going to get 1500rpm out of it. I've got my knock sensor mounted pretty low on the block, but once I move it up to the top of the block I'll get a little more aggressive with timing and see what comes from it. I'd definitely like the powerband to shift down about 2K rpm, though. May go to a smaller (T25/28) turbo if I can't get this one to do what I want.
This may sound dumb, but have you checked your IC pipes for leaks? How about the wastegate, is it even closed? That is really late spool for that turbo.
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Old 06-22-2012, 10:18 PM   #184
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...aaaaannnnd yeah. BLT twice in the last month didn't turn up anything larger than throttle body shaft seals. BUT, for ***** and giggles I checked out the wastegate at lunch today. Loose as ----. Adjusted it about an hour ago and now I need to go out and pretty much redo my entire tune from 3Krpm to redline

At least I found the issue (or part of it). Will repost here when I've got that shizz retuned.
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Old 06-23-2012, 08:33 PM   #185
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Engine: '90 1.6L w/ 175k miles. 155-160's compression corrected for altitude(on a cheapo gauge), wet test was within a few psi on each cylinder, burns a little oil on decel (valves?) That's what I know about her.

Turbo: Mitsubishi TD04-15G (Greddy Kit)

Manifold: Stock Greddy Cast

Downpipe Size/Style: "Turbotony" 2.5" downpipe

Exhaust Size: 2.5 inch "topspeed" exhaust, (greddy ripoff of some kind)

Intercooler Core Size: 27x7x3 (or close)

Intake Manifold: stock

Headwork: Stock ( possibly leaky? ) valves.

Engine Management: MSPNP9093 - stock firmware, etc

Other Spoolin' Helpers/Hurters: turboxs(bleeder valve) MBC, exhaust leaks fixed (according to soapy water test with a clogged exhaust for extra backpressure), KN cone filter. Altitude is at 7000ft, for reference barometric pressure is at 80kpa so anything above that is positive pressure.

4th gear pull:

1900rpm : 82 kpa (0.3psi)
2200rpm : 87 kpa (1.0psi)
2500rpm : 90 kpa (1.4psi)
3000rpm : 96 kpa (2.3psi)
3250rpm : 103kpa (3.3psi)
3500rpm : 107 kpa (3.9psi)
3750rpm : 124kpa (6.3psi)
4000rpm : 138kpa (8.4psi)
4284rpm : 149kpa (10psi) (peak, limited by mbc from here on)

Funny how 10psi only gives me 149kpa, silly altitude. What do you guys think, should my spoolup rate be this effected by altitude? I've been trying to research spool loss vs altitude and have found it definitely has a pronounced effect, but exactly how much of an effect it should be having i don't exactly know. I guess the best way would be to do a datalog at sea level... sea level is faaaaar away.

EDIT: Since making this log I noticed my noisy MAP signal. I noticed that because of the noisy map signal my timing is a little erratic. I'm going to work on fixing this soon - Where should I relocate this vac line? I believe it's tee'd off of my FPR location now. Or is this noise a electrical issue? My RPM's etc were noisy when i first went MS but i fixed that by adding an extra ground.

Last edited by Fireindc; 06-23-2012 at 09:07 PM.
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Old 06-24-2012, 02:21 AM   #186
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That is better than I thought you'd show based on what you've been saying. Still better than mine by 2-300rpm since I addressed my wastegate problem.

Do you have a way to smooth the MAP signal? I was having an issue with mine until last month, then found I was able to smooth the input and all is well. Before this my IDCs were all over the place...graph looked like a sawblade and it was tough to get a solid response.
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Old 06-24-2012, 12:42 PM   #187
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Yeah, it's not really horrible I'd say. However compared to some greddy kits I'm a good 500-800 rpms late for full boost.

You know, I'm not sure if there is a way to smooth the input via megasquirt, I'm going to look into this today and figure out what I need to do. I feel like the sawblade effect might be killing spool/power somewhat. In the log i can see my timing advance and retard back and forth all the way through a pull. I can't feel it in the car though, it feels like a good hard pull to redline. So this will be the next thing i work on.

Do you have an updated log since you tightened your wastegate? I'm curious to see that.
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Old 06-24-2012, 08:21 PM   #188
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try running a 1/4" weedeater fuel filter inline with your map. it smoothed mine out quite a bit.

full spool of 194 kpa by 3700 RPM i 4th gear started pull @ ~2200

Engine: '95 escort GT 1.8L BP w/ 160kish miles.

Turbo: Mitsubishi TD05- big 16G

Manifold: home made 4 into 1

Wastegate: Tial 38mm mvs .9 bar spring water cooled. attached through the separated DP flange. IWG puck and arm removed. expanded IWG opening.

Boost control: wastegate spring

Downpipe Size/Style: home made 2.5" downpipe

Exhaust Size: 2.5 inch exhaust, hollowed cat, 2 cherry bombs for noise reduction

Intercooler Core Size: 19x7.25x3.5. 3" in and out

Intake Manifold: mazda 323 GTR gasket matched

Headwork: gasket matched intake and exhaust ports

Engine Management: MS 1v3.0

Other stuff: 3" charge pipe from turbo to i/c and from i/c to t/b. necks down to 2.5" at t/b. turbo XS RFL bov.
Attached Thumbnails
I want your spool data!-graph.jpg   I want your spool data!-home-brew-exhaust-manifold.jpg   I want your spool data!-mocup.jpg  
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Old 06-25-2012, 12:51 AM   #189
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Fireindc View Post
Do you have an updated log since you tightened your wastegate? I'm curious to see that.
Your IDCs look like mine did before the smoothing. Do you MS guys have a way of logging airflow in addition to MAP?

No 4th gear pull yet, just some 3rd's from a couple tuning runs. Still need to retune and get my AFRs properly back in line before I repost. But the 3rd gear pulls look pretty much identical to my previous ones, just that everything is shifted to the left about 1K rpms. Way more responsive now...feels much better.

Fastiva, thanks for posting all that info. And great tip on the fuel filter...that's awesome.

Last edited by matthewdesigns; 06-25-2012 at 01:09 AM.
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Old 06-25-2012, 10:13 AM   #190
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only if they run maf sensor, otherwise no
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Old 06-25-2012, 10:18 AM   #191
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I have done some reading about the whole noisy MAP signal thing, look like either a restrictor in line, or a "buffer" such as a fuel filter inline should help. I'm already running the line from one of the better locations (teed off the fuel rail FPR), so I' m going to try some other solutions this week. Will post up my results. Thanks!
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Old 09-22-2012, 01:16 AM   #192
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Quote:
Originally Posted by muoto View Post
Engine: '99 1.8L 9.5:1 supertechs +1mm
Turbo: GT2560R
Manifold: ARTech™ Ramhorn Top Mount manifold
Downpipe Size/Style: 3.5" homemade
Exhaust Size: 3.5" homemade. no cat
Exhaust Components: Magnaflow 5x11x22 muffler
Intercooler Core Size: 550mm x 225mm x 64mm
Intake Manifold: stock
Headwork: none
Engine Management: Adaptronic E420c
Other Spoolin' Helpers/Hurters: EBC

FOURTH GEAR PULL:
RPM Boost (psi)
2576 3.33
2605 4.49
2701 6.67
2839 10.15
2926 11.89
3057 12.91
3176 15.09
Wow I don't know what I changed in the car (or the EBC settings) but my GT2560 spools very low now :P I love this turbo. Wish I had better IM

fifth gear pull:
1879 2.75
2022 3.48
2122 4.20
2276 5.24
2390 6.82
2456 6.96
2564 7.98
2662 9.72
2776 11.46 (wastegate opens)
2866 12.64
2996 15.38 (boost limit)

Last edited by muoto; 09-22-2012 at 03:35 AM.
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Old 09-27-2012, 03:38 PM   #193
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Engine: 2001 w/VVT, fresh rebuild with forged everything. Standard size SS valves, OEM springs, OEM cams.

Turbo: Garrett GT3076

Manifold: Header manifold

Downpipe Size/Style: 75mm

Exhaust Size: 80mm, no cat, ebay "carbon" muffler

Intercooler Core Size: I don't remember, it was rated for 600++ HP.

Intake Manifold: stock 99-00

Headwork: None.

Engine Management: Reverant Enhanced MS2, electronic boost control

Other Spoolin' Helpers/Hurters: VVT controlled, water injection per cylinder, 4th gear pull

Tuned by yours truly.

Went WOT at 3245 RPM.



3307 rpm - 121.3kPa
3405 rpm - 145.8kPa
3508 rpm - 167.3kPa
3609 rpm - 193.9kPa
3708 rpm - 220.8kPa
3799 rpm - 243.7kPa
3894 rpm - 265.5kPa
3970 rpm - 281.7kPa
3998 rpm - 298.2kPa

So full boost (29psi) just before 4000rpm.
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Old 10-11-2012, 02:50 AM   #194
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Engine: 1.9L
Turbo: Borg Warner EFR 6758
Manifold: Wittyworks shorty tubular
Downpipe Size/Style: 3"
Exhaust Size: 3"
Exhaust Components: Magnaflow 11x5x22 "big one"
Intercooler Core Size: Precision 600HP
Intake Manifold: Stock
Headwork: Junkyard 99 head
Engine Management: MS3 + MS3X
Other Spoolin' Helpers/Hurters: EBC, LS2 truck coils
Trans & Rear End Ratio: 6-speed, 3.9 diff

Fifth gear pull (6speed, so 1:1)

RPM PSI KPA
2062 1.9 113
2083 2.0 114
2093 2.1 114.4
2098 2.2 115.1
2115 2.3 116.2
2131 2.5 117
2148 2.6 117.8
2157 2.7 118.6
2178 2.8 119.3
2192 2.9 120.3
2206 3.0 120.7
2228 3.2 121.9
2244 3.4 123.2
2261 3.5 123.9
2278 3.6 124.9
2280 3.7 125.7
2310 3.9 126.8
2316 4.0 127.6
2347 4.1 128.6
2338 4.2 129.3
2376 4.4 130.4
2381 4.5 131.3
2405 4.7 132.7
2417 4.9 133.6
2429 5.1 135
2455 5.3 136.6
2474 5.5 138.1
2484 5.7 139.6
2513 5.9 140.8
2518 6.1 142.2
2549 6.3 143.3
2554 6.6 145.6
2593 6.9 147.5
2590 7.0 148.5
2624 7.3 150.5
2633 7.5 151.9
2659 7.9 154.2
2677 8.3 157.4
2698 8.6 159.4
2724 9.0 162.3
2756 9.4 164.5
2756 9.7 167.1
2785 10.1 169.6
2813 10.4 171.6
2827 10.8 174.8
2864 11.2 177
2868 11.6 180.1
2914 12.0 182.8
2905 12.3 185.1
2959 12.9 188.6
2967 13.3 191.5
3007 13.9 195.8
3008 14.5 200.3
3085 15.4 206.5
3131 16.1 210.8
3182 17.8 222.7
3217 18.5 227.7
3249 19.7 235.8
3285 20.5 241.3
3338 21.5 248.2
3347 22.6 255.5
3404 23.5 262.1
3425 24.2 266.8
3463 25.0 272.3
3501 25.5 276


"sensor01" is turbine speed sensor.
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Old 10-16-2012, 10:27 AM   #195
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Quote:
Originally Posted by soviet View Post
"sensor01" is turbine speed sensor.
Interesting. Do you know, what your readings relate to in terms of actual RPMs?
Also I would have expected the turbine speed to increase with higher engine RPM at the same boost. More air going into the engine should translate to higher turbine RPMs. That does not seem to be the case (very much anyway). Strange....
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Old 10-16-2012, 10:34 AM   #196
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Reverant View Post
3307 rpm - 121.3kPa
3405 rpm - 145.8kPa
3508 rpm - 167.3kPa
3609 rpm - 193.9kPa
3708 rpm - 220.8kPa
3799 rpm - 243.7kPa
3894 rpm - 265.5kPa
3970 rpm - 281.7kPa
3998 rpm - 298.2kPa

So full boost (29psi) just before 4000rpm.
Very nice. Huge improvement over my previous 3076/log setup.
I'd love to see the pull started @ 2k though.
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Old 10-16-2012, 02:47 PM   #197
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Engine: '00 1.8l
Turbo: BEGI 2854 churbo
Manifold: BEGi Cast "Directed Pulse"
Downpipe Size/Style: begi separated gasses, 2,75"
Exhaust Size: 2.5"
Exhaust Components: roadster sport 3 midpipe and rear.
Intercooler Core Size: 13x11x3"
Intake Manifold: Stock
Headwork: stock
Engine Management: EMB
Other Spoolin' Helpers/Hurters: MBC, very conservative timing.
Trans & Rear End Ratio: 5-speed, 4.1 LSD
Rear tire size: 195/50/15

FOURTH GEAR PULL:

RPM Boost(psi)
2000 2.6
2100 3.2
2400 4.8
2500 6.0
2600 6.8
2700 8.1
2800 8.7
2900 8.7
3000 8.7
3100 8.7
3200 9.4
3300 9.5
3400 9.5
3500 9.5
3600 9.5
3700 9.7
4000 10.1
4500 10.8
4800 11.9 boost limit.

Seems my wastegate/mbc is up to some funkyness.
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Old 10-17-2012, 07:13 AM   #198
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Engine: '93 1.6l
Turbo: BEGI 2560
Manifold: BEGi Cast log
Downpipe Size/Style: begi separated gasses, 2,75"
Exhaust Size: 2.5" with cat
Intercooler Core Size: BEGi size 2
Intake Manifold: Stock
Headwork: none
Engine Management: MSPNP 1
Rear tire size: 205/45R16

RPM: MAP:
2500 118
2600 124
2700 127
2800 131
2900 135
3000 139
3100 144
3200 148
3300 151
3400 156
3500 163
3600 164
3700 168
3800 172
3900 179
4000 180 <- 12psi / boost limit
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Old 10-17-2012, 08:59 AM   #199
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Sentic View Post
Seems my wastegate/mbc is up to some funkyness.
yes it is.
that doesn't look good AT ALL
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Old 10-17-2012, 11:19 AM   #200
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Quote:
Originally Posted by stefanst View Post
Interesting. Do you know, what your readings relate to in terms of actual RPMs?
Also I would have expected the turbine speed to increase with higher engine RPM at the same boost. More air going into the engine should translate to higher turbine RPMs. That does not seem to be the case (very much anyway). Strange....
It's RPM, in thousands. So in the screenshot it's at 128'100 rpm.

Your expectation of RPM rise is wrong. Also the RPM "window" is quite narrow. At 80k rpm it makes like 6psi but at 130k it's 26psi.

See how difference between 2.4 and 3.2 pressure ratio is only 20k rpm? That's like 12psi worth of difference.


Quote:
Originally Posted by Sentic View Post
Seems my wastegate/mbc is up to some funkyness.
looks like a leak in your intercooler piping
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