STAHP with the pornography.

Emilio, are you running any brake cooling ducts yet? I know the Cup cars have some, but I haven't seen any pictures. The only feedback I have seen is that they are rough looking with exposed screws etc on the front inlets.

It is also weird that I haven't seen anyone post that they have bought a 2017 on m.net yet. Where are they?

BW also announced a new smaller EFR today. It is 35mm shorter and has 35% less inertia than a 6258. They claim it flows 95% of a 6258, as well. It is the 5951 and it sounds like the perfect ND turbo!

No brake ducts. So far it's been happy with just the 11.75 Radial mount DP4 and G-Loc R-18/R10. We don't road race the ND though so its possible we would encounter thermal issues or rapid pad wear if we did. For now though, the brakes are amazing. Consistently outbraked everything at MRLS. Stops way harder than our NA's by virtue of the ND's significantly larger contact patch.

I'm always amazed at how poorly NAs brake, especially considering how well they turn.

Our NA's stop great. Straight line modulation and, linearity, trail braking all fantastic.The ND stops harder because the tires are a lot bigger. If your NA doesn't stop well, you should evaluate your brake system again.

Another little advantage the ND has over the NA/NB is active brake bias with input from the native brake line pressure, yaw and pitch sensors. The 86 twins also do this very well. You can feel the brake bias helping you rotate the car under braking. All transparent and easily adapted to.

I wasn't referring to braking feel, just the raw amount of G that an NA can generate when braking. You can see it in G-graphs from typical sessions, where a G-circle ends up being much more of a G-ellipse. I've seen similar graphs from others (used to compare a lot with Keith Verges when he was still with us). I easily get to 1.2ish in the turns, but a bit over 0.9 is all it will do before locking up. Doesn't help that I'm running 3.5 degrees of camber of course.

As far as feel/modulation/linearity, agree, really nice.

That's mostly just tire size. Weight distribution, polar moment, pitch moment, anti-dive and all that are good in the NA/NB. Mount a set of FA fronts or 245/580R15 R75's on 15x10's and your opinion of the brakes will change. Becomes impossible to downshift fast enough, braking zones that begin after the turn in marker, oil pressure drops etc.

I've heard that they're sitting at the docks waiting to be delivered to dealers and that they're waiting for the existing stock of 2016s to get sold down. Naturally, m.net is in a tizzy about how fast they are/aren't selling and the many potential reasons for such, mostly focusing on the fact that the masses just don't understand the pure, unmitigated, unquestionable, genius of Mazda.

As fantastic as the ND is, Mazda just really largely missed the mark for this market if they wanted to sell a whole bunch of them IMO. However, they're moving fairly consistently. I don't know if that really is the reason for the '17's delay, but the only one we've ordered so far has been sitting at the port since August. Usually once portwork is completed they arrive at the dealership within a couple days. This one's port work was completed on August 22.

I expect Mazda IS waiting for dealer stock to go down before releasing the '17s, and good on them -- it's really better for the brand if supply doesn't far exceed demand.

The Ceramic club I ordered for myself still hasn't sold. Have seen it every single day since July :cry:

How/why do you think they missed the mark? The cars are relatively true to the miata heritage right? The redesign for the ND looks great and more in line with American tastes for every dimension except horsepower numbers...

The typical M.net reasons are pretty accurate: My dad bought a used G37S cabrio instead of an ND because his golf clubs didn't fit in the trunk. #dealbreaker.

Mazda discontinued the RX-8 four years ago. They don't seem especially interested in competing against the G37.

Yeah, totally different vehicles.

The Miata doesn't really compete against anything currently on the market except the FRS/BRZ/whatever-the-fuck-they-call it now. Pretty much everyone else has given up selling sports cars for under $50K.

--Ian

I think miata aficionados tend to be too literal when discussing what "competes with" a miata. Sure it's pretty much the only relatively inexpensive roadster, and one of a small group of light RWD cars, but if the goal is a "fun", "cool", or "fast" car then there are lots of options. Which takes me to my other thought. Miata has stayed true to it's roots, but hasn't adapted to the changing competition landscape. Even as recently as the NC launch in 2006, and certainly for the NA and NB generations, a consumer had the choice of a fast/powerful car or a great handling car, but not both (at a reasonable price). Now, with the on-going horsepower wars and the fact that Camaro and Mustang are no longer (as) fat wallowing pigs, consumers can have both at a similar price point. I'm personally in that position. I love the looks and handling dynamics of the ND, and have had good luck with my NA but it's tough to justify at ~$28k when for a few thousand more you can get 400 hp. Add to that the fact that, for me at least, I would immediately have to change the suspension to reduce body roll and look into various power adders which would void the warranty and complicate emissions and the ND becomes a compelling USED car, but tough to justify new. That being said, I'll continue to stop by the dealer to drool occasionally and if they cut me a great deal on one of these leftover 2016s then I might pick one up after all.

It's official. Leafy doesn't want to be my friend.

Agree with a lot of this. At least IMO.
I don't think they missed the mark. I think there are more than 1 mark.

What they did with the ND, IMHO, is brilliant and I am still just as impressed with it as I was when it was announced. But I too will likely not own one. Until they're closer to 10ish grand, lol.

They absolutely stayed true to the Miata heritage, and have developed the Miata idea to near perfection. I don't believe they missed the mark for a Miata -- I believe they missed the mark for this market if they want to sell a whole bunch of them. Like Schmidty said,

Extremely well said IMO. I'm not necessarily saying Mazda should have done the Miata differently (yes I personally wish they'd have done it differently, but I'm not saying they SHOULD have from a business perspective). If they HAD done it differently, they would have departed from the original idea of the Miata. It's simply that by sticking to the original Miata philosophy, they have limited their market as most people today are spec whores and/or power whores.

Again, very well said, and I fully agree. A better way to articulate it than I did. More than one mark. They nailed the Miata mark. But by doing so, ensured that they miss the "whole buncha sales" mark, at least when compared to cars like the Camaro and Mustang.

Don't golf clubs fit in the front seat? Are there any trunk rack attachments like there were for the NA miata?

I've oft wondered about that myself.

Personally, I don't see any new cars on the market that are a good Miata-alternative. The S2000 was a runner, so was the MR2. But they're dead. The Mustang and the Camaro are conceptually similar, but project much more of a "bro" vibe- I have a hard time visualizing someone shopping for a new Mustang saying to themself "I should probably check out that Miata" or vise-versa.


Now in the used market, there are certain contenders, but I'll admit that I don't really understand the mindset of the new-car buyer in the first place. If you're willing to accept a used car instead of a new one, but still have 2016 ND money to burn, I'd think that the Boxster, the Corvette, the Z4, and the CLK would would be strong contenders.

The Q40/Q60? Not really in the same league as far as being an aspirational purchase. More like the car that your wife brow-beats you into buying with all sorts of logical arguments like "we have two children and a dog," despite the fact that you really wanted an ND (or a Boxster, or a Corvette.)

Haha I looked at a v8 mustang before I bought my nb1. I mostly picked the Miata because I'm new to being a car guy and I felt that the car/community was more accessible. I also sold an SV650 to fund the miata and I felt like they had similar strengths and weaknesses re how nimble they are while not having the straight line oomph.

Now that I'm here, the second part might be getting fixed!

I find that most people shopping for a new ND are not cross shopping it with used 'vettes, Z4s, Boxsters, etc. Most of them are cross shopping with the NEW versions of those cars. Most new Miata buyers can afford those more expensive cars, but opt for the Miata because it's cheaper and honest. One in particular was looking at new 911s and was considering the ND and BRZ as cheaper alternatives. After driving the BRZ and ND back to back (I have Subaru and Scion new brands here as well) he came right back and reserved the ND. I keep in touch with him and he's thrilled with his choice.

Cool story bro, I know. But most people buying a new ND aren't buying it just because that's the price point they can afford.

I just caught this. Do you have any more details on it to share?

I saw a topic on m.net that says it is using ceramic coating on the hotside and inconel fasteners. So it looks to be a serious kit..

For more info you can contact Avo World directly. Until we have a transmission solutuon we wil only carry therir N/A kit. Will be Dyno testing and evaluation that hard question. It appears that it will make about 165whp Dynojet on California 91.

Not bad at all.

I may be tempted by another car next instead of this. If I get the job I'm working on in another city and end up with commute that I could possibly buy a cheap bicycle for when the weather isn't crazy hot.

If I can sock some more away in the bank, and pay off my last credit card, I'm gonig to very seriously consider a 2017/2018 Camaro SS 1LE package. $44k, but even the SS's end up selling way under MSRP.

And I figure a $30k Grand Touring (and I don't know how much under list you can get them), once XIDAs, wheels/tires, exhaust, tune, roll bar, brakes, oil cooler, go on the car.......You're likely in the upper $30k range investment.

^sounds like a good plan. Indeed, the Miata with mods gets to be a pretty spendy proposition.

Do you use the word "bro" on a regular basis? If not, you were never Mustang material. I mean, I looked at a Fox body before I bought my Celica GT cabrio. But I knew it wasn't the right choice for me. (This was in my pre-Miata era.)

I saw another ND on the road today, and it's harming my preconceptions.

On the one hand, it was being driven by someone who looked as though he frequently uses the word "bro" in a non-sarcastic context.

On the other hand, the radio was blaring Justin Timberlake.

I'm confused...


https://cimg7.ibsrv.net/gimg/www.mia...e9ce7ef91d.png

I was legitimately shopping craigslist entirely by price. I'd just sold a motorcycle so I wanted a fun convertible. I tried the stang out and it was honestly pretty awesome, but it felt like a boat. It was the total opposite of having a bike you could throw around. Hence the miata. Now I plan to have some fun with the car. Hence this forum (,Bro)!

I've been using my garage to build a baller desk.

I could use one of those for the grad skewl lyfe.

I just read an article on autoevolution stating that Mazda is considering reviving the Mazdaspeed brand in 2020, starting with the miata. Has anyone else heard any similar rumblings?

Hopefully it is sooner than that. They need a new Mazdaspeed 3 already.

Emilio, are you using any oil coolers yet? I reallly don't want to use the damn Mishimoto that GWR is selling. I don't trust that brand at all.

Then buy a setrab?

We are working on a Setrab oil cooler kit for the ND. No price or ETA, it is still a ways off. Like you, I would not install the Mishimoto kit if someone gave it to me.

A lot of us are lazy/no fab skills/etc and/or just want to buy a plug and play kit.

And I'll third Mishimoto............I'd never have any of their products on a vehicle I owned.

Haven't heard anything about it. At this rate, I'd not expect anything til a real source outs it. 2020 is still quite a ways away.

Mazda's MO is to do a Mazdaspeed version as a design ages to spark interest. 2020 would be about the right timeframe to do this on the ND (4 years in). But, yeah, that's an eternity in the car biz. Given all the power left on the table with the SA2.0, it seems like a Mazdaspeed version would be easy-peasy and would not require FI. Basically, just do what Goodwin and 949 have been doing.

But turbo noises!

Can be added through the speakers nowadays :p

Buy an Alfa 4C!

https://www.miataturbo.net/build-thr...why-not-91229/

Just put a transmission in it that can handle more power and make it standard for all power levels, please.

Because I don't make enough to justify one of those!

This. But have they not already made improvements in this regard? Was the tranny issue design related or metallurgy process control related or ??

All of the gears have new part numbers, but that is about as much information that has been figured out. Mazda hasn't said a thing about it. There is a guy on M.net called MX-555 (I think) that has done massive amounts of digging and figured that out, at least. Cars with a build date September 2016 and forward will have all the new gears. On a different note, the Cup cars are getting a slightly different 3rd and 4th gear, altogether. EMCO is the company doing that work.

I am thinking about selling my '16 Sport (since I should've bought the Club or higher trim anyways) and keep my 01 Miata and 10 Jetta TDI until Mazda does a mid-cycle update and all the transmission issues have been fixed. By then (probably the '19 year model) I could save up to buy one with cash.

I absolutely love the car, though. The torque curve is amazing for the street and I routinely do more than 40 mpg on my way to work. I should either trade in the '16 for a '17 with the fixed transmission and go back to one car, or wait it out like I said above. I don't know what to do!

Thanks for the response. I also noticed the other day that your 11-inch 2-piece rotors are way cheaper than everyone elses, so if I decide to keep the ND, I will definitely get a pair. I plan to pair them with the FM Powerlite caliper kit. So that combo would drop over 25 pounds out of the car, all unsprung, for only $1500.

I went to our friend's holiday party last night and one of their relatives own an ND. It has some bolt ons and a Vishnu flash. I convinced him to take me for a quick run. I was all excited to be able to add something to this thread.

Well, I can say it backs down a driveway better than any previous model year Miata. That is when the test ride ended abruptly. The owner cut the steering wheel prior to the driveway ending and the street beginning.

Immediately we started bouncing over the large rocks that line the street drainage at the base of the driveway. In a panic, he hit the throttle and we proceeded to Ivan Stewart (off road racer) over the rest of the rocks and came to a rest in the drainage ditch.

This occurred at 1am and so far, the coldest night of the season. Like in the 20's cold....great. He tried to move but it was obvious we had high centered on one or more rocks. But it gets worse. Not only had we high centered but the drivers side front was roughly 2 to 2.5 feet off the ground and over the deepest part of the ditch.

In a bit, we had the crew from Engineering Marvels designing and implementing a rock structure under the dangling wheel. About an hour later we got it free.

The short of it is the ND does very well over sharp rocks etc. At least until running out of ground clearance. Chassis rigidity is excellent and I could discern no noticeable torsional twisting with one front tire hanging and the opposite rear tire with no traction (open diff). I suggest Mazda look into possible hill climb/descent assist.

:rofl:

loved it

From the SDBMWCCA autocross at Qualcomm stadium yesterday. Fun!

https://cimg4.ibsrv.net/gimg/www.mia...6b67d9675f.jpg
https://cimg5.ibsrv.net/gimg/www.mia...d638ded7af.jpg

^ That is a wicked shot of the 949 ND on three wheels!

Had a great time yesterday with the 949 Racing crew at the SDBMWCCA autocross.

https://c1.staticflickr.com/1/730/32...ed906087_b.jpg

Haven't driven the ND in a while, I forgot how good it was! Might have to list the NA for sale...

https://c1.staticflickr.com/1/568/31...204336d6_b.jpg

The course design was on point, although I wish we had a few more RPM to stretch second gear out.

I finally got my 01 running again after replacing a whole bunch of parts and I really forgot how fun it is to drive. It has crappy coilovers, sway bars, and some ollld RE11's, but it is still much more fun than the stock stuff on my ND. The ND REALLY needs suspension to bring out its true character. The powertrain is absolutely fantastic and the brakes are really strong, but the suspension is so damn floppy. I think I am going to get rid of the ND and my super-high payment and wait it out until the mid-cycle refresh.

Oh yeah, we just received our AVO turbo kit for it.

https://cimg6.ibsrv.net/gimg/www.mia...013fe69262.jpg

From the AVO website. Should be fun.

https://cimg4.ibsrv.net/gimg/www.mia...f911f695f6.jpg

Wow. Nice torque curve.

I worry about the SkyActive though. Seems like that one would have less margin than the traditional Mazda tractor motors. But, maybe not?

We'll find out. We plan to have two tunes. One more conservative for CA91 and the standard AVO map with a gallon or two of race gas added to each full tank when we do HPDE or autocross. The supplied tune was done on CA91 but we're being cautious.

But yeah, dat torque.

The spinny whooshy thing

https://cimg4.ibsrv.net/gimg/www.mia...bdf001c4e8.jpg

is that a cheater bend on the dp, and is that............silicone on the connections?

A TSE kit it ain't. Just the same, AVO does their homework. I don't expect to have any problem with it.

I've see one of these kits installed here with Ross from AVO, everything about it is rock solid for what it is and installation was hiccup free.

Yup. Previous experience with AVO stuff has always been favorable. I would not have pulled the trigger on it if I had any doubts.

Is that RGM between the flanges?

looks like copper rtv. That shit's toast on the first dyno session.