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Old 09-02-2014, 09:09 AM   #141
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Originally Posted by Leafy View Post
I dont see why an aluminum seat cant be safe. Hundreds of roundy rounders in marginally or well installed aluminum seats crash every year and normally in significantly more violent crashes than you typically get on a road course and there's never been a big outcry against the aluminum seats in that community. Follow the manufacturer's instructions on install and I dont see how it would be unsafe.
Please don't look to short tracks as how to be safe. they hold over 50% of the deaths in motorsport within the last 25 years. that's including rallying, autocross, club racing, Professional road racing.

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Of at least 523 racing deaths since 1990, 53 percent have been at short tracks. That has climbed in the past three years to about 70 percent. Short tracks are also where most U.S. racing takes place.

Read more here: More than 520 people have died in U.S. auto racing in past 25 years | CharlotteObserver.com
More than 520 people have died in U.S. auto racing in past 25 years | CharlotteObserver.com
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Old 09-02-2014, 09:24 AM   #142
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Originally Posted by AlwaysOnKill View Post
I've got a question for you . I'm 6.0 220 with 36 waist, wide shoulders and I found a seat that fits me well ( ultra-shield road race ) but after reading the possible spinal in jury's with aluminum seat with back braces .Ive kind of steered myself to a seat like a sparco sprint 5 . Now I know I can't fit a sparco sprint 5 due to my size ,so my question really is .... What is a good seat that will fit me and still fit in the miata ?
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Originally Posted by sixshooter View Post
Lies.

Six Shooter. it's not lies. Aluminum seats Can be safe but they need to be mounted correctly. Using a back brace that is made to make an expired FIA seal legal, is not the correct way to brace an aluminum seat.
Aluminum seats need to be tied into the roll cage. the anchoring bars located on the seat needs to go along the shoulders. 2 anchoring points need to extend off of the anchoring bar to the roll cage. Putting a single bar and locating it at the middle of the spine is a huge no no. But almost all racing sanctioning bodies allow this..

check out this video. @30 sec you see how an aluminum seat reacts in a crash
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Old 09-02-2014, 09:44 AM   #143
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Originally Posted by OGRacing View Post
Please don't look to short tracks as how to be safe. they hold over 50% of the deaths in motorsport within the last 25 years. that's including rallying, autocross, club racing, Professional road racing.

Quote from the charlotte observer

More than 520 people have died in U.S. auto racing in past 25 years | CharlotteObserver.com
They also probably consist of 95% of the car to car and car to barrier contact and 90% of the hard impacts and roll overs of American motorsports over that same time period.
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Old 09-02-2014, 10:17 AM   #144
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They also probably consist of 95% of the car to car and car to barrier contact and 90% of the hard impacts and roll overs of American motorsports over that same time period.
Yeah, when someone brings facts and statistics into an argument, straight-up conjecture is a great counter-argument.
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Old 09-02-2014, 10:20 AM   #145
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They also probably consist of 95% of the car to car and car to barrier contact and 90% of the hard impacts and roll overs of American motorsports over that same time period.
Leafy,
If you would go to a short track and see what they require (as far as safety equipment) you would not be surprised by the statistics.
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Old 09-02-2014, 10:47 AM   #146
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Leafy,
If you would go to a short track and see what they require (as far as safety equipment) you would not be surprised by the statistics.
I'm not. Iron Man is the best class ever, no cage, stock belts, stock seat, just smash the glass out, cut the exhaust off and throw on a helmet and you're good to go.
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Old 09-02-2014, 11:45 AM   #147
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I'm not. Iron Man is the best class ever, no cage, stock belts, stock seat, just smash the glass out, cut the exhaust off and throw on a helmet and you're good to go.
HAHAH when i first saw that class my eyes started to bleed.

Last edited by OGRacing; 09-02-2014 at 11:59 AM.
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Old 09-02-2014, 01:41 PM   #148
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Anyone know what non-boxed in seats might be safer than stock? Like the OMP Style, or the Recaro Specialist? Just where you can turn 90 degrees to get out.
the R100 IS very nice for a miata application. lots of pictures of them in miatas floating around. i sat in one for about 4 hours during my Training. very comfortable seat.
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Old 09-02-2014, 02:03 PM   #149
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So we've determined that an improperly mounted aluminium seat can cause injury but an improperly mounted fiberglass seat is safe? Or that they are both dangerous when improperly mounted and both safe when properly mounted?


I've been to lots of circle track events and driven in a couple many years ago. They are pretty tight on competitive advantage but don't look into the safety gear worth a damn. The attitude is that you are risking your own neck. They will check roll cage construction but that's to keep people from cheating on weight.
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Old 09-02-2014, 02:15 PM   #150
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Sufficiently improper mounting of any safety equipment will kill you.

Any seats getting loose or distorted does not make a good platform for the belt to do it's job, the main safety function of the seat.
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Old 09-02-2014, 02:16 PM   #151
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Both are dangerous when improperly mounted. But you're more likely to see an improperly mounted aluminum seat because they require you to drill your own holes, provide your own fasteners, and are generally cheaper than the comparable composite seat and thus more likely to be hacked.

I will fully admit that I wouldnt run my seat how its currently mounted on a road course but I'd have no second thoughts running it on the street. And thats with 4 properly sized bolts to a steel frame to the stock sliders with large fender washers preventing tearout, and no upper back mounts. Upper back mounting would be required for me to want to run it on a road course.
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Old 09-02-2014, 10:29 PM   #152
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I don't dislike my Buddy Club Racing seats, but they are a little tight around my lats/shoulders. I wish I could find a wider seat that fits with door bars. As it is now, I can't see many seats fitting unless I really modify the transmission tunnel and or make custom door bars.

The thigh bolsters are what interfere with the door bars. If I could make some custom door bars that were about 4" higher, seems like I could snake a seat with a wider base in.
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Old 09-02-2014, 11:43 PM   #153
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It's a shame that vendors are directing you away from an aluminum seat or that you otherwise have some kind of bias against them. The UltraShields are light, fit with lots of room in a Miata and are extremely safe when correctly installed. Unlike composite seats, they don't deteriorate in sunlight. They're also made in Tyler, TX. After my experience with them, I would honestly never consider a composite seat.
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Old 09-02-2014, 11:46 PM   #154
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I find it funny that they are. At the autox I last went to, almost every car that had an aftermarket seat had one that was aluminum. Almost all the aluminum ones were ultrashields as well.
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Old 09-03-2014, 01:32 AM   #155
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For a full-on race car on a privateer budget, aluminum seems the way to go. Properly braced in the back they should be equal or better than composite. The seat is only one component; harnesses, helmet and HANS combined make a much bigger impact on safety. Pun intended.

The best bang for your buck seems to be an Ultrashield seat with halo, Ultrashield 6 point camlock and HANS device (pick one that works).

BTW, it looked like the aluminum halo in that Simpson video didn't have a horizontal brace. FWIW composite would have done the same.
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Old 09-03-2014, 01:14 PM   #156
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Originally Posted by hornetball View Post
It's a shame that vendors are directing you away from an aluminum seat or that you otherwise have some kind of bias against them. The UltraShields are light, fit with lots of room in a Miata and are extremely safe when correctly installed. Unlike composite seats, they don't deteriorate in sunlight. They're also made in Tyler, TX. After my experience with them, I would honestly never consider a composite seat.
We are a kirkey dealer. I will direct all of my customers away from the Kirkey economy. It has no lateral support and will snap your ribs in an impact. I direct people away from products that are unsafe, it's because we care about our customers. DO NOT imply that there is ulterior motives to this, that simple statement could cost a life.

For the Record an aluminum seat can be safe. It takes more effort to mount the seat properly. Short track racing is not an example i would use for how to use safety gear. NASCAR is an excellent example. plenty of the nationwide teams use aluminum seats, But how it is mounted is critical in it's application.

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So we've determined that an improperly mounted aluminium seat can cause injury but an improperly mounted fiberglass seat is safe? Or that they are both dangerous when improperly mounted and both safe when properly mounted?
Both are dangerous when improperly mounted. it is easier and simpler to mount a FIA seat. you can't just bottom mount an Kirkey and expect it to work. you'll need to tie it into your roll bar. also you can't just use a seat back brace meant for expired FIA seats. those sit at the base of your spine. [email protected] RAcetech seats reported to me, an event At VIR. A participant went backwards into a tire wall and snapped his spine. DOA at the hospital. you need to brace an aluminum seat across the shoulders.

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I find it funny that they are. At the autox I last went to, almost every car that had an aftermarket seat had one that was aluminum. Almost all the aluminum ones were ultrashields as well.
Next time you're in those seats bounce your head against the headrest. Feel how easy the head rest moves.. then imagine you're in a fairly normal 30g rear impact with a Tire wall. your 8lbs head will have 240lbs of force on that head rest. if your fat friends can stand on it without it moving then i would consider it safe.

Last edited by OGRacing; 09-03-2014 at 01:31 PM.
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Old 09-03-2014, 01:17 PM   #157
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BTW, it looked like the aluminum halo in that Simpson video didn't have a horizontal brace. FWIW composite would have done the same.
do you want to retract that statement now or after the video?
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Old 09-03-2014, 01:25 PM   #158
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Originally Posted by OGRacing View Post
do you want to retract that statement now or after the video?
Racetech Seat Philosophy - YouTube
RaceTech makes great ****, and their halo absolutely flexed during impact. NOT as much as a non-braced aluminum halo, but flexed nontheless. Cost no object, I'd buy their seats over Sparco, Recaro, Cobra.

The big point of the video is that the back of the seat was braced to the roll cage. Do this with any material seat and you'll be safer.
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Old 09-03-2014, 01:36 PM   #159
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FIA composite seats are not meant to be back braced unless specified by the manufacturer. They are supposed to flex in an impact to absorb the energy of the impact.
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Old 09-03-2014, 01:52 PM   #160
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Originally Posted by cordycord View Post
RaceTech makes great ****, and their halo absolutely flexed during impact. NOT as much as a non-braced aluminum halo, but flexed nonetheless. Cost no object, I'd buy their seats over Sparco, Recaro, Cobra.

The big point of the video is that the back of the seat was braced to the roll cage. Do this with any material seat and you'll be safer.
Absolutely. Also Racetechs seats Exceeded the FIA standard of 25g's. they kept testing them and they withstood 80g's.

The difference between aluminum and fiberglass/carbon. the fiberglass will bend and react. It slows the occupants motion, while absorbing the energy and then react. Aluminum will just bend.

You can see "after" of FIA seats in the video.
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