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Aaaaaand it's broken I had a trackday at the beginning of feb, and I was suffering from an intermittent sync loss issue - missing tooth at wrong time. Only on the power at higher rpm. Also after the day when I looked at my logs the water injection was under-spraying, but still enough to trigger the map switch. From this point the engine started using oil. I tried a load of different stuff, checking sensor gaps, re routing the crank sensor wires, taking a load of ignition advance out of it, but at a second trackday a month later the car still suffered from the sync loss. I hadn't had time to do anything with the water injection so I just ran without it. On the trackday I also put the car into the grass a few times quite heavily, knocking the diff seal and causing the diff to leak. Poor old thing was generally in a bit of a state, so I've taken it off the road for a couple of months to give it a good strip down and rebuild.
One thing I have wanted to do for a while is do a removable front cross member to allow better access for engine work. The metal removed is depressingly light but the access is incredible. Its going to be a simple job to make a little front x member and will also allow me to make some improvement to radiator ducting. I'm going to swap to bonnet pins to secure the bonnet in the absence of the stock latch.
With the engine opened up it revealed some scoring on the bores, could just pick a nail but they are not gouges by any means. Pistons 1 and 3 had this little thin bridge of material around the intake valve relief blow off. I thought this was going to be the tip of the iceberg but when I removed the pistons from the bores the rings still rotated freely without any pinching etc. Also the skirts weren't cracked like last time which was a big relief.
No other signs of detonation on the pistons or combustion chamber in the head. I was also concerned that maybe the new head was the cause of the oil use, as the valve guide setup isn't stock, its a bit of a mismash of parts and I fitted them myself into the head (first time doing that)
I got the block and the head into a machine shop, I get a good feeling about this place. The owner Dave took one look at the quality of the hone on the bores and said it was likely that causing the oil use. He didn't have any concerns about the cylinder head, looking at the valves etc so that is a big positive. Maybe the underspray and possibly sync issue rocked the rings a bit on an already sub par hone and started the oiling issue. Plan is to do a minimum hone on the bores and rering the current pistons. I'm going to put the pistons in the mill (I bought a mill btw woo hoo!) and take off the sharp little bridges on the outside of the intake valve reliefs back to a more solid width.
So fairly annoying but not a catastrophe.
On the sync loss I am going to rework the crank sensor positioning as it isn't very square to the wheel, it was a best I could do position because of some constraints around the alternator belt routing. It didn't cause an issue before but I had it all off playing around with the EWP setup, and perhaps I have upset it. I'll run new screened cables back to the ECU, and check the inside of the ECU as I mucked about with that for the EWP too.
Will give the water injection a good clean up and check over, and I have already tightened up my failsafe strategy that was a bit lax tbf.
Apart from that I'm going to strip down the suspension and rebuild it. Ive got some Delrin in the shed to make bushings with. Also planning some changes to the oil cooler setup that may knock on to the radiator setup. I'm sick of knocking the undertray scoop off (did it again) and whenever that takes an impact if knock the oil cooler into the crank pulley. It's just not a very robust setup and I worry about it.
I'm also planning on painting the car while I have the engine out, as I'm bored of the silver, and there will be a few body repairs here and there involved in that.
Loads of other small jobs but I'm trying not to get too carried away as I want to drive the car by summer
Ouch, more bad luck! At least it does not sound too too bad.
On another note, I found and then lost a link to a water injection valve, which was built like an fuel injector, claiming very precise control of the water injection.
Have you seen this or are you already using something like this in your system?
Bit of a pain, but yes seemingly light repairs. Hopefully it does actually stop the oil usage, the machine shop certainly seemed very sure.
I think I know the ones - the USRT Race valves? I was looking at them. I already have a fast acting solenoid (Aquamist). By the looks of it they are about the same size. I'm actually thinking of simplifying the water injection system a bit.
One thing that makes it difficult to failsafe is the variable flow rate, holding a 15-20% water ratio through the rev range, because my failsafe is just a flat threshold flow value. It doesn't look at the duty or anything. Just sees x ccmin of water and switches maps. That means the threshold is a long way below peak flows I ask for at high rpms. I have already tightened up that threshold, but what I might do is flatten the water requirement, take a bit of a hit at low rpm with a higher water % (or just delay activation) then run the same 300ccmin through peak torque to revlimiter. I could then set the failsafe at say 280-290ccmin. That would have avoided the issue at Curborough.
Being honest I'm not really feeling the water injection atm. It has worked basically flawlessly for the 2years its been on the car, but this latest issue I have lost a bit of confidence in it, particularly as on my setup its proven not to be the key to unlocking power. I don't know if the reduced flow rates actually caused the issue but if they did its very frustrating that a small niggle causes an engine strip down.
Part of me feels like i'd be better just running it on super, addressing the on track oil temps with a suitably massive oil cooler, and loosing the 20odd Kg the WI costs me.
Equally when the setup was working last year it was awesome. Absolutely stable temperatures, foot to the floor all day in the summer and I was not worried about it. It is a recipe that works. If I take off the water injection and find out infact on a hot day I do need it to run the tune I do and my basic MS2 ECU the only way I find out is by grenading the engine. I just need to tighten up the failsafe so that if I do have an issue the map switch is more sensitive.
I'm going to think about it but I think an ECU with better knock capability is on the cars fairly soon, not in this rebuild but maybe in the winter. I probably will not rock the boat too much and just repair the recipe I have but take the learning and tighten up my approach.
Yes, the USRT race valves are the ones I was thinking of.
My knock solution is not integrated with the CPU either, and for track use that is pretty much a necessity IMO.
Yes, the USRT race valves are the ones I was thinking of.
My knock solution is not integrated with the CPU either, and for track use that is pretty much a necessity IMO.
Makes me think an MS3 with the knock module might be the way to go over winter. Not knowing is the worst part, its trial by error and error is expensive.
I don't even know if it was knocking, there isn't any speckling on the crowns or combustion chamber.
I just get concerned because I know I am getting to the limit of what normal petrol can do for me and particularly at Curborough everything gets heat soaked before a run.
Do you have a light or something on your car Oreo?
I am using a TurboXS Knock Lite. It has a light, and a digital output which can be interfaced with the MS2 with a bit
of circuitry. I have not done this.
I am not aware of many using this and they have long been out of production, however it has worked well enough for me.
When I recently switched to the smaller turbo, it told me I was running too much advance in the midrange.
I have said it before, but will say it again you guys both should immediately dump the MS2 and run MS3PRO. The SD logging alone will blow your minds. You will kick yourselves for not doing it years ago. Oh yeah, and integrated individual cyl knock detection, retard, and timing trim.
I am using a TurboXS Knock Lite. It has a light, and a digital output which can be interfaced with the MS2 with a bit
of circuitry. I have not done this.
I am not aware of many using this and they have long been out of production, however it has worked well enough for me.
When I recently switched to the smaller turbo, it told me I was running too much advance in the midrange.
If you have a reliable filter box and just send a digital knock signal that should work. I have a filter box, can't remember which one but its not great. I had some audible knock before in the low end mid boost, I could hear it box never did anything.
The slippery slope has begun. I'm getting hold of some +1 intake valves, and I am going to remake my intake manifold using some of my new capabilities.
The current manifold has quite a steep angle on its ports, not massively smooth transition to the cylinder head ports, particularly on the bottom of the port. It would be a real pig of a job to weld up the ports and grind them to the shape I want because it is steel. You end up putting so much heat into it that it actually hardens the steel. After I had welded in my WI ports and then mucked around thickening the mounting flange the machine shop that flattened it for me commented about the hardness, from welding it so much. Far easier to start again, and I still have the fixture I made to build V1.
+1 valves showed small gains in my previous sim work. Cylinder head is off the car, makes sense to do that now.
Will be interesting to get it on the dyno again when I'm back up and running. I don't expect to see a huge leap forward but there might be a little more in there.
I guess, but I'd still have to spray and pray fill the ports with mig then try to grind it all back. I'd be there weeks, the heat will move the flanges all over the place, it'd look rubbish. Can't be bothered.
I want to prove out the aluminium construction I have planned, and if it all goes wrong I can just fall back to my totally usable steel manifold.
I don't think it will be any lighter, but the thicker walls I will use will allow a far nicer transition, and I am going to make sure cylinders 1 and 4 get a proper full radiused bellmouth to hopefully level out the cylinders more.
Will be the first big project on the mill, I've done the CAD for it to work it all out and work out the best way to attack it. Should be interesting / frustrating / awesome / total waste of time and money - not sure which options it will be yet.
Not been feeling that well this week so progress has been a bit slow, but I have stripped down and inspected the cylinder head. I think a couple of the intake valve seals failed (maybe through lack of care when I fitted the valves). There's burnt on oil on the backs of a couple of the heads, but not on both valves in a port that might suggest oil was coming from upstream. Anyway, will take more care when installing the new valves.
Got a few bits in the workshop sorted too, moving some plugs about for the new layout.
I've got a decent way through the new undertray and bolt on x-member. I've got a reasonable idea how I'm going to do the top ducting, bonnet pin mounts and radiator positioning and mounting.
Started machining the intake today. Going alright but it takes forever and makes a ridiculous amount of mess. Still roughing in profile, then I will move onto segmenting the ports etc.
More progress on the manifold, its getting there slowly. The underside profile is now all machined. I'm on to creating the individual ports by hogging out the material between them. It's the first scary bit really as getting the spacing wrong or a lapse in concentration could end up with the the port breaking through when I put those in, and scrapping the whole part after all the hours so far. underside of manifold pocketing to seperate the ports
The machining so far did highlight some issues with the mill. When you machine in x (long ways) the cuts create steps. They were awful, I stripped down the table, cleaned and reoilled and it is a lot better but not perfect. You can just pick a nail on the overlaps using this 20mm slot mill. Forwards and backwards its spot on. It all measured in nicely with my DTI after I resassmbled it, but it isn't the most rigid machine. I might try to reinforce the back of the mill as you can give the head of the mill a good shove and see movement in a DTI. It's been good to do an ambitious, large part on the mill to see it's weaknesses. Hopefully I can give it a bit of a tune up.
It's the first scary bit really as getting the spacing wrong or a lapse in concentration could end up with the the port breaking through when I put those in, and scrapping the whole part after all the hours so far.
Ha ha the realisation I need CNC being the inverse function
I'm really glad I worked out all the angles on CAD first. Even working out the size of the blank I needed would have been a pain, and being able to look at it, try different port angles etc was great.
Its getting exciting now it is actually starting to look like an intake manifold
Really happy with the surface finish on the external parts and the clean and strip plus a bit more learning has got rid of the steps on over lapping passes. I've hogged the channels between the ports out. The surface finish isn't as good in there but they are in the right place and link up either side. I think its because the margin between linking up with previous cuts and avoiding a step while not putting the cutter in the wall is literally 0.00mm, particularly as it is a long cutter, as soon as it gets a whiff of wall it claws its way into it pulling itself closer. But they are all good enough to smooth out with a dremel to make pretty after.
Next up is cutting the actual ports which needs to be done carefully to make sure I get all the spacing right.
Ports are all rough cut now. Pretty happy with them, but quite a learning experience. First I cut the shape of the ports at the cylinder head flange. I did this from the opposite side of the part so I was cutting perpendicular to a surface, so the cutters didn't skew. Was a little worried this would end up deflecting them by the other side but they all came through within a mm of each other, and lined up nicely with the ports, with maybe 1-2mm max material to remove from the part to get it spot on to matching the cylinder head ports so very happy there. I wanted a bit of margin to account for any differences in the positions of the ports in the head. I will match it to my actual head when that comes back from the machine shop.
Then I cut in the tapers on the ports to open it up to the cross section I want at the opening. The maths checked out and the tapers met the original walls just before the other side of the part leaving the port that end the same size. I had cut a little narrower as I worked down the port to match nicely, but I will blend these out with a burr. I just wanted to set the ports all up with the same rough geometry on the mill, which is where it is pretty simple to do. Then I used a radius cutter to form the bellmouths at the opening. This was a bit of a learning curve working out how the cutter liked to be used, and also judging the stop positions to best match up around the corners (cant just cut one into the other because the radius of the port is greater than that). Again will blend where required with a burr by hand but the work should be pretty minimal and easy to do.
Also drilled the mounting hole pattern, only 0.5mm clearance on the holes and it dropped on like a charm. Can get used to the accuracy of using a mill!
Next things to do are chunk out the front and back of the manifold which I'm not looking forward to as its just a bit boring. Then I've got to put an outside radius on the outside of the ports which certainly on the top I don't think I can use my radius cutter, as they are quite short and the cutter is pretty big. It will wipe out the radius along the top edge of the inner and outer flange, but I've got a backup plan. I don't want to keep the square corners because it just looks a bit rubbish like that. Doing it totally by hand would look a bit inconsistent I think.
03-24-2023, 02:54 PM
I had a trackday at the beginning of feb, and I was suffering from an intermittent sync loss issue - missing tooth at wrong time. Only on the power at higher rpm. Also after the day when I looked at my logs the water injection was under-spraying, but still enough to trigger the map switch. From this point the engine started using oil. I tried a load of different stuff, checking sensor gaps, re routing the crank sensor wires, taking a load of ignition advance out of it, but at a second trackday a month later the car still suffered from the sync loss. I hadn't had time to do anything with the water injection so I just ran without it. On the trackday I also put the car into the grass a few times quite heavily, knocking the diff seal and causing the diff to leak. Poor old thing was generally in a bit of a state, so I've taken it off the road for a couple of months to give it a good strip down and rebuild.
1
you guys both should immediately dump the MS2 and run MS3PRO. The SD logging alone will blow your minds. You will kick yourselves for not doing it years ago. Oh yeah, and integrated individual cyl knock detection, retard, and timing trim.
