chi dams

 

You will like 400/250 *(if your opinions are the same as mine, you drive the same way I do, and your car has the same condition chassis and bushings etc.. etc..).

I wouldn't want to run a front spring rate that's twice the rear. At 450/250 I could feel the rear floating around just a bit, but the rear sway was off and this may have helped it.

I would order the NB riceland with the 425 front spring, and then order the 250lb./in QA1 and not worry about it. Even a 7" spring with that low of a rate was all the way down on my adjustable collars to hit 12.5".

And like you said, you can always get a bigger front bar.

 

soo does anyone know if these are worth it or not.. i read like 4 pages of this thread and just want to know some legit facts.. i've got Racing Beat Lowering Springs not installed right now and am looking for some shocks to go with them.. what would be some good shocks for these springs? and or just buy the Raceland and use the shocks and say screw the springs?

 

you cant put your shitty Racing Beat springs on the raceland shocks. No one knows if the dampers are actually good or not.

 

This just in:
Unfortunately we can not change the springs from the NB kit to the NA kit.


Thank you,

Raceland USA

I'll probably just get the NA kit so I don't have to buy new top hats (I have a parts car to pull top hats off of so I can keep my old stuff assembled)

I'd like the NB 425 spring, but the extra $60-$70 for top hats would be better put toward a larger front sway. I doubt there's any extra shock travel or anything else to be gained from the NB set.

If anyone has tried the RL NB kit, and slapped them together with the NA top hats, please let us know your results.

 

and im sure you didn't bothering asking what the actually difference between the NB and NA kit were besides the rates did you?

 

I'll let you know when they let me know.

 

Alright, I found (and someone please check my math on these conversions)
60 mm ID - 2.36" (think they'll still fit?)
180 mm Length - 7.09"
40 n/mm - 228lb/in
$58.50 each plus shipping

OR
2.5" ID
8"
200lb/in
$58.50 each plus shipping

 

I wouldn't pay almost twice as much just to drop 22lb/in off the rate.

Just go with the QA1s, be happy. Lots of people use them, quality, cheap, and the rate difference will never be noticeable...not to mention that 400/250 is already a 1.6 FRC rate...more than sufficient. Any more than that honestly will make for a very wallowy rear end.

Trust me on this, I've tried all these rates recently.

 

+1. The point of this exercise is assessment of these as a cheap streetable coliover solution, right? That is a pretty small change in spring rates so I would guess unless you are pushing the car really hard (track) then you will not notice a difference of 22 lb/in.

 

Ok till this point the general concensus is:

Cheapest-Ricelands with QA1 7" 250lb rears, and helper spring
More coin, better balance- Ricelands with 8" 200lb rears, no helper spring.


Comments??

 

well if you could score the pair of 8" 220# I posted....then that would be even cheaperz

 

I TRUST NO ONE! Uh, I mean yeah, that makes sense. I think I'll trust you on this.

My trigger finger is getting real itchy!

I think I'll wait for RL to get back to me on the differences question (seriously doubt they will have anything useful to say), then decide on NB or NA.

Definitely have to give them credit, I've probably sent them 5 or 6 emails and they've responded to all so far. That's about as much support I'd expect from :akbar: products of this magnitude.

 

I'm trying to figure out what you guys mean by better balance...

1.6 FRC is as nice as you'd want IMO

450/300 is a popular turbo setup, and it's 1.5
Sav runs something like 700/450 which is 1.55

Yeah, the eBay 450/350 is 1.28, and the stock RLs are 400/350 which is an abysmal 1.14 (read oversteer inducing). Once you're well away from that and closer to proven FRCs you're fine. No reason to go any further.


Now if you wanted to put the rear 350s on the front, and find a good 200-225lb/in rear spring I could see the logic in that. Be a little more comfy and easier on the dampers. A little mushy for my tastes though.


EDIT: In other words, by shopping for rates <250lb/in you're trying to fix a problem that doesn't exist.

 

We are all just typing numbers into the fatcat suspension spreadsheet (which takes sway bars into account too) and trying to get back to 56-60 FRC area.

That's why earlier I said:
With 400/250 and stock sways (19mm/11mm) I see a FRC of only 53.7% this is not ideal

and,

If I could find 200's I'd see 58.7%, pretty damn good, no disconnected sways, no buying super stiff/ expensive tubular sways, ect.


I don't know jack about suspensions, but the fine folks at FCM do. If I can use some of their posted knowledge to keep me out of trouble, I will.

 

I'm just talking about spring rates, taking sways and everything into account.

This is all anecdotal, just going by what works, so I'm actually wrong in using the FRC terminology.

I'm also using an NB front sway, so take that into account.

 

On another note, I found a source for QA1 springs that are a little cheaper than summit.

streetsideauto.com
search for: QA1 7250

When I added two to my cart, I wound up with free shipping, I then found SSA5OFF coupon code which saved me another 3.79

Total from ssa is 71.97 whereas summit is 85.71 with shipping.

(there are also a bunch of other coupons if you plan to spend more)

 

So according to the FCM sheet, while I'd have a FRC of 53.7 with my stock 19mm front sway, you'd have 56.7 with the NB front sway which is just about perfect.

I recall that to mount the NB bar on an NA, you'd just need adjustable end links. Is that correct?

 

I've found autoxing on different setups over the past 10 years....with more power comes the need for more FRC...

Here's my progression:

Went with Konis at 60K.
Added turbo at 80K: body roll was retarded.
Added sway bars: oversteer was retarded.
Added FM (318/233) springs: More balance, still a little unpredictable oversteer.
Added more torque: body roll and oversteer was retarded.
Removed rear bar: More neutral feel, predictable handling, sluggish turn-in, body roll
Swapped in 550/300 springs: harsh ride, improved handling performance, no lean or lift, crisper response

I will be swapping in 400/250 springs next week: I expect a comfortable yet competent setup.

 

I didn't, but I'm ghetto.

I heated mine, and twisted (~15*). No problems at all in over a year.