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Old 03-08-2010, 12:05 PM   #101
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Originally Posted by Braineack View Post
Just remember, the stock NA has a roll stiffness of 1037 ft-lb/deg, so it only takes that much force to introduce one deg of body roll.

the Raceland setup has a roll stiffness of 2187.5 ft-lb/deg, twice the force required to introduce body roll. So, the car is much flatter make it easier to whip the tail around...something like that.

I'm running 550/300 springs. my FRC is 62%, with my torque output, it's still pretty easy for me to rotate out the rear end....even without a rear sway bar.

Althought I bet the raceland setup has really great turn-in reposonce and would work fine driving around spiritedly, I just think I'd like to increase the FRC more especially when we all have boosted cars.
I never thought about less roll = more whip. Guess that makes sense, kinda, still wrapping my brain cell around that.

Why are there so many setups on the fatcat page FCM_MSDS_1_8NA.xls with such low FRC%s? Like, gobs of them under or around 50%, are there just a ton of set ups to buy that are prone to oversteer?
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Old 03-08-2010, 12:13 PM   #102
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Originally Posted by olderguy View Post
It would be nice for someone to provide a picture of the Racelands installed, sitting level with the wheels on the ground.
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not from the side....but you can see they are fully compressed.
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Old 03-08-2010, 12:16 PM   #103
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Originally Posted by oilstain View Post
I never thought about less roll = more whip. Guess that makes sense, kinda, still wrapping my brain cell around that.
I'm using my feeble brain for this one...im no expert

Quote:
Why are there so many setups on the fatcat page FCM_MSDS_1_8NA.xls with such low FRC%s? Like, gobs of them under or around 50%, are there just a ton of set ups to buy that are prone to oversteer?
dunno. Again I'm no expert. But look at the factory numbers...
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Old 03-08-2010, 12:25 PM   #104
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Originally Posted by olderguy View Post
It would be nice for someone to provide a picture of the Racelands installed, sitting level with the wheels on the ground.
Just ran outside for you...
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Old 03-08-2010, 12:38 PM   #105
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imo oversteer is 1000000000000000000times better than understeer. I oversteer a good bit on my setup as it is now but that is fine by me cause i likes it.
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Old 03-08-2010, 12:41 PM   #106
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Originally Posted by magnamx-5 View Post
imo oversteer is 1000000000000000000times better than understeer. I oversteer a good bit on my setup as it is now but that is fine by me cause i likes it.
Is definitively funner, unless you end up facing incoming traffic on an express way
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Old 03-08-2010, 12:50 PM   #107
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Is definitively funner, unless you end up facing incoming traffic on an express way
Done that, no fun at all.

Can anyone tell me the size (ID and Length) of the rear springs on the racelands? Fronts too, if they are different.

Tanks.


Oh, and I haven't been able to find anything about less roll being a factor in easier spins, only the changes in spring ratio, anti sways, basically just FRC changes.

If anyone has any light reading to recommend on the subject, I'd appreciate it.
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Old 03-08-2010, 01:23 PM   #108
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Braineack View Post






not from the side....but you can see they are fully compressed.
With your interweb quote that the springs are designed to be fully compressed continually and the pictures above; I now understand. Actually seems to be a much better system than my Ground Controls provide.
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Old 03-08-2010, 01:34 PM   #109
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you can always buy helper springs
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Old 03-08-2010, 02:15 PM   #110
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OK now this all makes sense to me especially with the pictures. The Helper Spring is indeed fully compressed as I would suspect since its rate is so light. I can see how it is 'helping' to keep the spring from being completely unloaded at full droop and falling out of its mount. But if that is the case, why not just get rid of the helper spring entirely and get a longer spring instead?
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Old 03-08-2010, 02:17 PM   #111
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Then they wouldn't be using the cheap 5-6" Chinese springs that have saturated the eBay marketplace...

I'm going to be fitting 8" springs on my front. But only coupled with NB tophats will I might be able to get the car to maybe 12.25" at the lowest in the front on my perches. Springs too short and you can run into coil bind. But plenty of guys here use 6" springs without bind. I know when I was chatting with Shaikh, he suggested that my rears need to stay under 12.75" with my 7" 300 lb springs or I may risk coil bind. I saw no evidence of it, at least jacking the wheel up as far as i could I still had plenty of clearance and see not markings between coils.
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Old 03-08-2010, 02:22 PM   #112
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ZX-Tex View Post
But if that is the case, why not just get rid of the helper spring entirely and get a longer spring instead?
I think the problem with our cars is that in order to have a spring rate much higher than stock, the spring must be shorter since it will compress much less when installed. There is only so much space between shock mounts and A-arms in which to place a perch, or adjust your perch.

That said, Brainy and I talked at length, and compared measurements (no homo). Most 7" springs will fit and allow anything-but-cr.net ride heights, and only droop at the lowest settings, and even then <1". Some 8" springs will fit, but your ride height will be completely dependent on the spring rate (~550lb/in front = ~12.5" wheel center to fender lip). This was the lowest ring for a Koni perch, and I've yet to measure a coilover setup like my Teins. I can get back to you on that.

In short though, yes, they should just use longer springs. I imagine they have a company in China that just spits out 5.5" springs all damn day, and they use them universally, much like the eBay coil sleeves.
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Old 03-08-2010, 02:26 PM   #113
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You can only lower your car so much when you count in the statice ride height ie a 9" 700lbs spring would leave the car looking like a monster truck. You can only lower your car so much on the collars. So if your running 6" 450lbs ebay springs and your at the top of the adjustment collar and still need a little more ride height you would order a 7"450lbs replacement spring. Most bilstein home brew setups will let you move the spring around a couple inches when on jack stands or aka full droop.

I think the area you need to stay in is 57-59%, and I've heard you want to add 1% more for every 50whp you add. Make sure you use the correct sheet na/nb for some reason the numbers come out different. Also, do not pay attention to those example %. Those are autox cars that were made rotate really fast for tight courses.
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Old 03-08-2010, 02:31 PM   #114
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Originally Posted by jacob300zx View Post

I think the area you need to stay in is 57-59%, and I've heard you want to add 1% more for every 50whp you add.
That's the first time I've ever seen anyone come up with a metric for how turbo/V8 cars need more FRC....I LIKE.
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Old 03-08-2010, 02:57 PM   #115
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Originally Posted by jacob300zx View Post

I think the area you need to stay in is 57-59%, and I've heard you want to add 1% more for every 50whp you add. Make sure you use the correct sheet na/nb for some reason the numbers come out different. Also, do not pay attention to those example %. Those are autox cars that were made rotate really fast for tight courses.

Thank you thank you.

Alright, another question for those who have ordered the NB kit: I thought I saw someone say it didn't come with tophats, but according to their website (which is finally back up)
* 4 x Height Adjustable Strut
* 4 x Main Spring
* 4 x Damper Spring
* 4 x Lowering Spring Seat
* 4 x Spring Seat Lock
* 4 x Top Hat
* 4 x Bump Stops
* 4 x Flat Washer
* 2 x Hook spanner wrench
* 2 x Raceland Stickers

So what gives, they have em or not? If so, what else is needed to mount to an NA? I'll have to try to find that needle in the haystack that is m.net...

Edit: According to some guys on GRM, I just need the NB top mounts for my NA. Still would like confirmation that they come with the top hats though.

Edit again: I got this response back from Riceland:
Thank you for your interest in Raceland products.

Yes, this is kind of confusing. You will need to use your original top hats, the ad should state top spring seat instead of top hat. If you have any other questions please let us know.

Last edited by oilstain; 03-09-2010 at 07:48 PM.
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Old 03-08-2010, 03:00 PM   #116
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they don't have top hats. i doubt there's a difference between the NA and NB, possibly longer bodies...but i bet just the rates.
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Old 03-08-2010, 11:30 PM   #117
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I have factory suspension of a MSM, no problems. That **** just bolted right up to my na, no problems. That being said, here is the email convo that has taken place between myself and racelands. I felt like i was talking to a drop shipper on ebay somewhat. lolz
Me:
Subject=Miata coilover shock dyno
S1=Would you happen to have shock dyno charts for the coilover kit for the NA and NB miata? It would help me make a more educated choice. Many people on miataturbo.net would like to see the charts too. I'm sure if they are somewhere pretty close to what we want, your going to manage to sell a few sets
RL:
Thank you for your interest in Raceland products.
At this time we do not have dyno charts for the Mazda coilover kits. If you have any other questions please let us know.
Me:
Well, could the front dampers handle a stiffer spring? I need more of
a spread between the front and rear rates, and i was wanting to go
stiffer, maybe with a 500-550lb spring in the front, if not, i guess
i would have to drop the back down, thanks!
RL:
Thank you for your interest in Raceland products.

We do not offer a stiffer spring for Mazda kits. The coilovers are designed to use 400-425 lbs. springs and we do not recommend changing the spring rates.


Thank you,

Raceland USA
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Old 03-08-2010, 11:53 PM   #118
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what did you expect?
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Old 03-08-2010, 11:55 PM   #119
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what did you expect?
This.
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Old 03-09-2010, 12:13 AM   #120
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Quote:
Originally Posted by chicksdigmiatas View Post
Me:
Well, could the front dampers handle a stiffer spring? I need more of
a spread between the front and rear rates, and i was wanting to go
stiffer, maybe with a 500-550lb spring in the front, if not, i guess
i would have to drop the back down, thanks!
RL:
Thank you for your interest in Raceland products.

We do not offer a stiffer spring for Mazda kits. The coilovers are designed to use 400-425 lbs. springs and we do not recommend changing the spring rates.
Me: But what if I want a car that is not oversteer prone as I am not into da driftyngz
RL: Thank you for your interest in Raceland products. We do not recommend that you increase the front spring rates because then you cannot be dope and do da driftyngz with da crew yo. Fast and Furious, rent it, watch it, ged wit da programs YO! Our ***** dope yo. Just shutup bitch and BUY OUR **** YO!
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