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Old 03-26-2012, 01:54 PM   #141
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I immediately shut it down. The turbo should be fine. I plan to contact TSE.
I was planning to built it later, but this just accelerated the schedule.
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Old 03-26-2012, 02:30 PM   #142
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popped at 10psi?

who tuned it?
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Old 03-26-2012, 03:54 PM   #143
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I tuned it. I had the overboost protection set to cut fuel at 10PSI. I started with VE analyse and then used datalogging and adjusted fuel cells on the map. It had no detonation, at least none that was perceivable. I know the rods aren't up to the task of the added torque. I plan to start pulling parts tonight.
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Old 03-27-2012, 01:35 AM   #144
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Ari, it's safe to say that you were easily over the torque safety limit, even at 10psi. The other BP EFR miata was at 270whp/256wtrq @ 12psi.

Differences are that you have a better cylinder head, better turbo manifold, better intake manifold, better intercooler, better engine management, etc...

Needless to say, you're setup is significantly better than the other EFR miata we've seen. I bet you would be seriously shocked if you put your car on a dyno at 10psi.

Get the new short block in now!
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Old 03-27-2012, 01:37 AM   #145
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Yeah, I started prepping the spare block today.

Here are some datalogs from the test and tune track day.

The short file was the last WOT run through the gears on the straight.
Attached Files
File Type: msl 2012-03-16_11.52.17.msl (1.57 MB, 183 views)
File Type: msl 2012-03-16_11.59.12.msl (189.3 KB, 95 views)
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Old 03-27-2012, 08:41 AM   #146
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thing was running stupid rich and had tons of timing. looks like you were only hitting 150kPa (7psi) and 6500RPM at the most but, around 23 timing and between 10.0:1 and 8.8:1 AFR...

...I wouldn't call that safe by any stretch of the means.



You do know the MS thought it was still in warmup mode (8%) and your baro settings were also causing it to dump in excess fuel too (7%) for a total of 15% more fuel at any given time.

running that rich is not safe coupled with only a few degrees of timing being pulled in boost.
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Old 03-27-2012, 12:01 PM   #147
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Which wideband were you using and was it properly configured with MS? I've seen a ton of people's logs recently where they were running the inconsitent output ranges on the WB and Ms.
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Old 03-27-2012, 12:21 PM   #148
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geez, 23* is about double of "conservative" lol
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Old 03-27-2012, 12:29 PM   #149
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at 150kPa, it's not that aggresive really.

considering the n/a map is close to 27 or so, it's only 4 retarded, but I'd like to see at least 1 per psi.

the fueling being so overly rich probably washed the walls and let the rings score the walls, or led to the oil being contaminated or both which led to some failure. although i'd still expect it to last more than a few laps...still, there was something wrong with the tune that led to the failure.
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Old 03-27-2012, 12:58 PM   #150
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Braineack
thing was running stupid rich and had tons of timing. looks like you were only hitting 150kPa (7psi) and 6500RPM at the most but, around 23 timing and between 10.0:1 and 8.8:1 AFR...

...I wouldn't call that safe by any stretch of the means.



You do know the MS thought it was still in warmup mode (8%) and your baro settings were also causing it to dump in excess fuel too (7%) for a total of 15% more fuel at any given time.

running that rich is not safe coupled with only a few degrees of timing being pulled in boost.
I haven't touched the warmup or baro settings. The only real change was the switch to bigger injectors, ReqFuel setting, cranking PW settings and fuel map.


Quote:
Originally Posted by hustler View Post
Which wideband were you using and was it properly configured with MS? I've seen a ton of people's logs recently where they were running the inconsitent output ranges on the WB and Ms.
I am using the Innovate MTX-L connected directly to the MS inputs (12V, GND, SIGNAL). The wideband AFR calibration setting in MS is "Custom Linear Wideband" 0V = 7.35AFR and 5V = 22.39AFR. The wideband gauge shows 11-12AFR in boost.
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Old 03-27-2012, 01:11 PM   #151
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Here is my spark map. Brain what is your recommendation for the boost range?

Just a note: The logs I posted are from two weeks week before the trackday.
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Old 03-27-2012, 01:37 PM   #152
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The timing isn't bad now that I'm looking at the actual map. Must have missed that brain was talking about only #150kpa


Hustler was talking about the actual output of the wb matching what MS is saying its outputting. very VERY often its way off and people don't even realize it. You gotta check independently, and not just assume that "directly connected with the proper calibration = its correct"
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Old 03-27-2012, 02:53 PM   #153
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I trusted the value of the wideband more than the value in MS. If I had the leaner AFR in MS, then the gauge value was very lean. I was also not getting lots of soot and buildup at the exhaust that would indicate a rich mixture.
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Old 03-27-2012, 02:54 PM   #154
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do they match?
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Old 03-27-2012, 03:11 PM   #155
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Maker sure MS, MLV, and the WB are all on the same output range, which I assume you did. Your grounds for the WB and computer, describe them to us.

I suspect you bent the rods rather than detonated to death.

For the record, my 11.7:1 tune makes nasty black soot on the pipe with some on the bumper, it's a fact of life.
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Old 03-27-2012, 04:05 PM   #156
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Braineack View Post
thing was running stupid rich and had tons of timing. looks like you were only hitting 150kPa (7psi) and 6500RPM at the most but, around 23 timing and between 10.0:1 and 8.8:1 AFR...

...I wouldn't call that safe by any stretch of the means.



You do know the MS thought it was still in warmup mode (8%) and your baro settings were also causing it to dump in excess fuel too (7%) for a total of 15% more fuel at any given time.

running that rich is not safe coupled with only a few degrees of timing being pulled in boost.
It took me 3 seconds of google to find out that Las Cruces, New Mexico is located at 4000ft elevation.

So his 159kpa is pretty much spot-on 10-11psi of relative boost pressure at that altitude.
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Old 03-27-2012, 06:42 PM   #157
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Quote:
Originally Posted by 18psi View Post
The timing isn't bad now that I'm looking at the actual map. Must have missed that brain was talking about only #150kpa

Hustler was talking about the actual output of the wb matching what MS is saying its outputting. very VERY often its way off and people don't even realize it. You gotta check independently, and not just assume that "directly connected with the proper calibration = its correct"
I remember double-checking the values over and over and even changing the bounds to get them to match. I eventually set it to the correct WB values. Once they matched, I stop playing with it. The gauge was always consistent though.

Computer is wired to the harness ECU plugs. the new MTX-L only has 3 wires (12V, GND, Signal). The wideband is directly connected to the ECU input harness (The serial plug on the MS). All connections are soldered.

The exhaust pipe is black on the inside, but the sooty spit on the ground from cold startup is gone.

The range of the wideband is 0V = 7.35 and 5V = 22.39, should I standardize it to 0V= 10 and 5V = 20? This would allow me to use the regular Innovate AFR setting instead of the custom AFR range setting.

I didn't perceive any detonation and intake temps always looked good. I also think I just overtorqued the rods until one failed.
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Old 03-27-2012, 06:58 PM   #158
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Quote:
Originally Posted by 99mx5 View Post
I remember double-checking the values over and over and even changing the bounds to get them to match. I eventually set it to the correct WB values. Once they matched, I stop playing with it. The gauge was always consistent though.

Computer is wired to the harness ECU plugs. the new MTX-L only has 3 wires (12V, GND, Signal). The wideband is directly connected to the ECU input harness (The serial plug on the MS). All connections are soldered.

The exhaust pipe is black on the inside, but the sooty spit on the ground from cold startup is gone.

The range of the wideband is 0V = 7.35 and 5V = 22.39, should I standardize it to 0V= 10 and 5V = 20? This would allow me to use the regular Innovate AFR setting instead of the custom AFR range setting.

I didn't perceive any detonation and intake temps always looked good. I also think I just overtorqued the rods until one failed.
As long as the value range is specific, don't change it. I think you just bent rods.
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Old 03-30-2012, 01:32 PM   #159
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Thanks everyone for the feedback. I disassembled the spare motor to inspect. I will order the new parts soon.
I will also pull the engine from the car today to assess the damage. Carnage pics coming soon.
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Old 03-30-2012, 02:22 PM   #160
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Quote:
Originally Posted by 99mx5 View Post
I trusted the value of the wideband more than the value in MS. If I had the leaner AFR in MS, then the gauge value was very lean.
They are either both right or both wrong.
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