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Old 12-18-2013, 09:38 AM   #881
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Originally Posted by cordycord View Post
Being the wideband noob that I am, I emailed 14point7 and got an answer back quickly from Alan To. He says:
(explenation)

Gawd I love the education I get here. Now I just have to read it two or three more times to understand...
Yes, he's saying that the internal working of the system are all digital, just like every other wideband controller presently on the market. This was not always the case, but given the present-day state and cost of FPGA technology, an engineer would have to be retarded (or a Luddite) to design any circuit of this nature which relied on analog op-amps.

The feature where it outputs a link-calibration signal is pretty cool, I didn't know that they'd implemented that.

Still, the key point in the whole "analog v. digital" question is that the vast majority of all wideband systems available today, including the 14point7 devices, use an analog signal which varies from 0-5v to represent the AFR, thus requiring digital-to-analog conversion at the controller, followed by analog-to-digital conversion at the ECU. Yes, this link can be properly calibrated to adjust for error.

The exceptions to this rule are the current-gen products from Innovate (LC-1 and LC-2), which output both an analog signal and RS-232 data. When connecting one of these to an MS2 or MS3 with the serial link, there is no possibility of miscalibration between the two units.
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Old 12-18-2013, 11:43 AM   #882
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Yes, he's saying that the internal working of the system are all digital, just like every other wideband controller presently on the market. This was not always the case, but given the present-day state and cost of FPGA technology, an engineer would have to be retarded (or a Luddite) to design any circuit of this nature which relied on analog op-amps.
I'd consider myself an early adopter more than a Luddite, although I don't always know how exactly what I'm buying works. The Innovate stuff looks to be the industry standard, and I can see using the RS232 interface being really useful for dyno work. At the same time, I'm pretty pleased to have purchased the 14point7 for $105. It's not as pretty, but I'll take the extra $90 and paint some flowers on the cabling.
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Old 12-18-2013, 12:34 PM   #883
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Default 14point7 wide band Spartan

Picture time...

Cordycord's epic tube frame build-_sam2603-copy-.jpg
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Old 12-18-2013, 12:41 PM   #884
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Default This goes with this?

Somehow I think the wide band goes with that snail-looking thing, and that other cnc-machined pinwheel...
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Old 12-18-2013, 01:38 PM   #885
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You have my complete attention.
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Old 12-18-2013, 01:43 PM   #886
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BOOST FTW!!

Even if it is just a chinacharger lol
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Old 12-18-2013, 01:48 PM   #887
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BOOST FTW!!

Even if it is just a chinacharger lol
Couldn't pass up the price (mfg. direct), and is ball bearing. I figured I'd add the cnc death spiral to the mix, just to see what happens.

The vanes of the cold side extend beyond the plane of the base. That should add an extra "kick", at least in theory...
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Old 12-18-2013, 01:53 PM   #888
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Originally Posted by cordycord View Post
Couldn't pass up the price (mfg. direct), and is ball bearing. I figured I'd add the cnc death spiral to the mix, just to see what happens.

The vanes of the cold side extend beyond the plane of the base. That should add an extra "kick", at least in theory...
Doest that just allow you to put a larger exducer wheel into a turbo without having to machine the chara for the larger backing plate at the expensive of efficiency? It would "most likely" be a "better" wheel with the full back and the chara machined larger. Of course all billet wheels are make believe and psudoscience unless they come with a compressor map.
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Old 12-18-2013, 01:58 PM   #889
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Doest that just allow you to put a larger exducer wheel into a turbo without having to machine the chara for the larger backing plate at the expensive of efficiency? It would "most likely" be a "better" wheel with the full back and the chara machined larger. Of course all billet wheels are make believe and psudoscience unless they come with a compressor map.
Sometimes you just gotta throw the spaghetti at the wall and see what sticks...
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Old 12-18-2013, 02:48 PM   #890
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This thread just got more interesting (like it wasn't already...)!
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Old 12-23-2013, 09:36 PM   #891
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Default cold side

I had forgotten why I bought the damn compressor in the first place. Some little guy at SEMA twirled this shiny little thing in front of me, and then showed it next to a stock compressor. Long story short:

--lighter
--stronger
--thinner in the center
--better balanced
--vanes extended 30 degrees outboard

The net result is supposed to be a 10% bump in power.

I mentioned this to Abe at Artech. After he got through correcting my terminology, he said that although the compressor was balanced alone, the entire assembly would need to be balanced again once it was all together.

Balancing a turbo assembly at 250k rpm's isn't something I can handle, even if I somehow hook it up to my Dremel. Luckily there's a turbo shop nearby who can probably handle the work that I can't. If not, we'll keep the stock impeller for now. Either way, it will be a month or two before the Catfish gets some air forced through its gills.
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Old 12-23-2013, 09:41 PM   #892
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So the question is: did you get it for free? Because if not, I would consider it a huge waste of money to buy a new compressor wheel then pay to have it re-balanced just to go into a chingchangcharger
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Old 12-23-2013, 09:52 PM   #893
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So the question is: did you get it for free? Because if not, I would consider it a huge waste of money to buy a new compressor wheel then pay to have it re-balanced just to go into a chingchangcharger
Nearly free. What I should do is install the turbo, dyno, and then install the cnc compressor, dyno again. Don't think I have the patience, though...

If I get good results, maybe y'all will be sticking these cnc chingaderas on your snails...
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Old 12-23-2013, 10:37 PM   #894
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So the question is: did you get it for free? Because if not, I would consider it a huge waste of money to buy a new compressor wheel then pay to have it re-balanced just to go into a chingchangcharger
Why? New comp wheel, name brand turbine wheel, rebuild it with name brand parts and its just a garrett in unlabeled housings for half the price. I want to do this a 16g or 18g for the subie.
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Old 12-23-2013, 10:44 PM   #895
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Not only unlabeled housing, but unfinished housings.

The casts for the turbine housings are usually complete ****.
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Old 12-24-2013, 12:56 AM   #896
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Why? New comp wheel, name brand turbine wheel, rebuild it with name brand parts and its just a garrett in unlabeled housings for half the price. I want to do this a 16g or 18g for the subie.
You're in dreamland as always.

350 + lets say 150 for the comp wheel + lets say 150 for the turbine wheel + I don't even know what you mean by name brand parts but the chra's are nowhere near the same, most chinachargers that actually work and don't fall apart don't use ball bearings, they use wet float journal bearings + like 150 to balance it and you're 100 away from a real garrett.

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Originally Posted by cordycord View Post
Nearly free. What I should do is install the turbo, dyno, and then install the cnc compressor, dyno again. Don't think I have the patience, though...

If I get good results, maybe y'all will be sticking these cnc chingaderas on your snails...
YESS
please, in the name of science
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Old 12-24-2013, 02:47 AM   #897
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You're in dreamland as always.

350 + lets say 150 for the comp wheel + lets say 150 for the turbine wheel + I don't even know what you mean by name brand parts but the chra's are nowhere near the same, most chinachargers that actually work and don't fall apart don't use ball bearings, they use wet float journal bearings + like 150 to balance it and you're 100 away from a real garrett.


YESS
please, in the name of science
I visited a very nice turbo factory a couple of weeks ago in Taiwan. NOT China. Taiwan. Remember...China=Communists...Taiwan=Democracy.... there is a difference. China is any aisle of WalMart. Taiwan is where your bleeding edge computers come from.

On to the news...this company I visited did a bang-up business selling turbos with Garrett internals and their own housings. They were properly done. They spin-balanced each turbo unit to 250,000 rpm. They private-labeled their wares to some very reputable Japanese companies. And NO, they did not allow me to take photographs. And no, this is not where my "churbo" came from. But I may be getting some from there in the future...

But as for my current "churbo", I don't care. The unit is getting dropped onto a nice mid-miles NB 1.8 mill. I won't be doing any custom porting. I certainly won't be developing a $5,000 cnc-machined head. It's just going on a standard engine at a standard psi, managed by a standard MSPNP2, with a wideband. Even with this really plain build I'm still talking 230hp with a car that weighs 1,550lbs. Does anyone think I'll have fun with a 1:7 horsepower to weight ratio? At 250hp I'm at 1:6, which is Nissan GT-R or Porsche GT-3 levels. Let's be honest; I'm not a good enough DRIVER to take advantage of this kind of performance....with a CHURBO and a $600 engine!!!

Okay, if the light hasn't gone on now, it never will. Carry on...
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Old 12-24-2013, 02:53 AM   #898
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I think you misunderstood my response to Leafy.
I'm not bashing you for doing this. I actually ran a chinacharger on my last setup and loved it. No matter what you do this car of yours is going to be a hoot, even in n/a form.

What I was bashing is the idea of replacing 90% of the churbo with garrett parts then being happy that you saved $100 over a real garrett.

As for your taiwan factory tour, I do believe we already had a whole thread about this factory that someone dug up info about.
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Old 12-24-2013, 11:54 AM   #899
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Originally Posted by 18psi View Post
You're in dreamland as always.

350 + lets say 150 for the comp wheel + lets say 150 for the turbine wheel + I don't even know what you mean by name brand parts but the chra's are nowhere near the same, most chinachargers that actually work and don't fall apart don't use ball bearings, they use wet float journal bearings + like 150 to balance it and you're 100 away from a real garrett.


YESS
please, in the name of science
Those prices are insane. You can get a billet wheel with a compressor cover for $150, figure more like $50 for the comp wheel, $150 for the turbine wheel and new shaft, and $60 for the rebuild kit and $40 to balance it.


That taiwanese factory was kinugawa/kamak wasnt it.
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Old 12-24-2013, 01:03 PM   #900
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I thought Kinugawa as well.
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