Cordycord's epic tube frame build - Page 52 - Miata Turbo Forum - Boost cars, acquire cats.

Welcome to Miataturbo.net   Members
 


Build Threads Building a motor? Post the progress here.

Reply
 
 
 
LinkBack Thread Tools Search this Thread
Old 07-04-2014, 10:27 PM   #1021
Elite Member
iTrader: (1)
 
Leafy's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2012
Location: NH
Posts: 9,093
Total Cats: 90
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Full_Tilt_Boogie View Post
There is a difference between consistency and accuracy.
Maybe a point, accuracy doesnt matter if you've got the only accurate measurement device in a sea of precise but inaccurate devices.
Leafy is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-04-2014, 10:36 PM   #1022
Elite Member
iTrader: (12)
 
GeneSplicer's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2009
Location: Birmingham, AL
Posts: 2,006
Total Cats: 147
Default

Dynojet 228/248 is only approved dyno for NASA and SCCA. Why run a mustang unless that's the only thing around. Accuracy/consistency... you don't have a choice of your competing in either.
The only way around that is if you've got awd
GeneSplicer is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-04-2014, 10:42 PM   #1023
Elite Member
iTrader: (1)
 
Leafy's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2012
Location: NH
Posts: 9,093
Total Cats: 90
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by GeneSplicer View Post
Dynojet 228/248 is only approved dyno for NASA and SCCA. Why run a mustang unless that's the only thing around. Accuracy/consistency... you don't have a choice of your competing in either.
You cant tune on a dynojet, you can on a mustang. I prefer to tune on a dynapac though because of the super low inertia and amazing control of load, and of course no tire slip possible.
Leafy is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-04-2014, 10:43 PM   #1024
Murderator
iTrader: (76)
 
18psi's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2008
Posts: 36,199
Total Cats: 2,584
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Full_Tilt_Boogie View Post
There is a difference between consistency and accuracy.
and a dyno that can be manipulated by the user has neither.

sorry, after seeing hundreds of inflated and "corrected" mustang and dynodynamics dyno results I've pretty much lost any and all faith in "dyno accuracy".

I'd go as far as to say there's accuracy with consistency. As long as you know the baseline vs finished numbers, you get repeatable results that you can at least somewhat compare with others.

PS: what I find most hilarious is everyone uses the "mustang dyno" disclaimer and the 10-15% lower reading regardless of whether that's actually true, and it makes their numbers look amazing.

I'm not saying that's what Cord is doing here. I would tend to completely trust the plot and disclaimer in this thread specifically. So OP, this is not aimed at you at all
18psi is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-05-2014, 08:18 PM   #1025
Elite Member
Thread Starter
iTrader: (1)
 
cordycord's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2011
Location: SoCal
Posts: 1,775
Total Cats: 148
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by 18psi View Post
and a dyno that can be manipulated by the user has neither.

sorry, after seeing hundreds of inflated and "corrected" mustang and dynodynamics dyno results I've pretty much lost any and all faith in "dyno accuracy".

I'd go as far as to say there's accuracy with consistency. As long as you know the baseline vs finished numbers, you get repeatable results that you can at least somewhat compare with others.

PS: what I find most hilarious is everyone uses the "mustang dyno" disclaimer and the 10-15% lower reading regardless of whether that's actually true, and it makes their numbers look amazing.

I'm not saying that's what Cord is doing here. I would tend to completely trust the plot and disclaimer in this thread specifically. So OP, this is not aimed at you at all
Everyone pretty much corrects to "Dynojet" numbers just to show apples to apples. I prefer an inertial dyno so steady load can be placed on the engine during tuning--it gives the tuner some extra tools to play with. I personally wouldn't care if the dyno read "100" as a baseline for every car, and then gave the ratio of improvement as you tune.

This particular dyno is 9 minutes from our shop, so I probably won't be venturing out for alternatives.

Last, we were picking up some detonation right after the session and I'm beginning to think that the carbon build-up from the previous rich tune was causing some "hot spots" on the pistons. We've backed off the tune, but I think the horsepower will pick up more as the crud blows out of the engine.
cordycord is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-06-2014, 05:32 PM   #1026
Boost Pope
iTrader: (8)
 
Joe Perez's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2005
Location: Delicious and Moist.
Posts: 26,327
Total Cats: 1,926
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by GeneSplicer View Post
Why run a mustang unless that's the only thing around.
Because for the purpose of engine tuning, you want a load-bearing dyno that can hold the engine at a constant RPM while you manipulate the settings of that one particular column in the table that you're working on.

Dynojets are great for making back to back comparisons between different cars, but very few of them are equipped for steady-state operation. The two types of dynos are different tools optimized for different tasks.
Joe Perez is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-06-2014, 09:28 PM   #1027
Elite Member
iTrader: (12)
 
GeneSplicer's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2009
Location: Birmingham, AL
Posts: 2,006
Total Cats: 147
Default

I guess I'm spoiled then. My tuner has an Eddy Current load-holding Dynojet.
GeneSplicer is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-06-2014, 09:59 PM   #1028
Boost Pope
iTrader: (8)
 
Joe Perez's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2005
Location: Delicious and Moist.
Posts: 26,327
Total Cats: 1,926
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by GeneSplicer View Post
I guess I'm spoiled then. My tuner has an Eddy Current load-holding Dynojet.
Yeah, the eddy brake is an option on most Dynojet models, but my experience mirrors Cord's in this respect. Five years ago, I went crazy trying to find a steady state dyno in the same town, and couldn't find a single one. I wound up working on an inertial-only Dynojet at a shop that did mostly drag cars, and it was slightly frustrating.

If I were a shop owner interested in catering to the "three pulls for $50" crowd, I'd get a Dynojet. If I were a tuning shop or was focused on engine development, I'd buy a dyno that was inherently steady-state, rather than tacking on an optional eddy brake to a huge, heavy inertial model.
Joe Perez is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-06-2014, 11:37 PM   #1029
Elite Member
Thread Starter
iTrader: (1)
 
cordycord's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2011
Location: SoCal
Posts: 1,775
Total Cats: 148
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Joe Perez View Post
Yeah, the eddy brake is an option on most Dynojet models, but my experience mirrors Cord's in this respect. Five years ago, I went crazy trying to find a steady state dyno in the same town, and couldn't find a single one. I wound up working on an inertial-only Dynojet at a shop that did mostly drag cars, and it was slightly frustrating.

If I were a shop owner interested in catering to the "three pulls for $50" crowd, I'd get a Dynojet. If I were a tuning shop or was focused on engine development, I'd buy a dyno that was inherently steady-state, rather than tacking on an optional eddy brake to a huge, heavy inertial model.
That certain shop you're talking about is the same distance away from our shop as the eddy current dyno, in the opposite direction. They won't get my dyno business, but I was going to take my 1.8 engine there for a quickie rebuild.
cordycord is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-07-2014, 08:14 PM   #1030
Elite Member
Thread Starter
iTrader: (1)
 
cordycord's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2011
Location: SoCal
Posts: 1,775
Total Cats: 148
Default MSPNP2

One other point; Bill had zero experience with the MSPNP software, as his specialties are Subie, GTR and Porsches.

Bill familiarized himself quickly with the software, adjusted the VE tables and then took the time to calibrate my "14point7" wide band sensor. He made sure that the changes he was making were essentially correctly reflected in the tune.

When he was done we had a 22 year old engine with a chinacharger and FM supporting hardware putting out some really good numbers.

Suffice it to say that the Subie faithful in the shop we're really impressed with the figures, and maybe a little worried. .
cordycord is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-07-2014, 09:45 PM   #1031
Elite Member
iTrader: (1)
 
Leafy's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2012
Location: NH
Posts: 9,093
Total Cats: 90
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by cordycord View Post
Suffice it to say that the Subie faithful in the shop we're really impressed with the figures, and maybe a little worried. .
This is the surprising shop, most subie shops are all "here is this tune I made once for a guy with similar mods to you on an access port, thankyou for the $500".
Leafy is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-07-2014, 11:44 PM   #1032
Senior Member
iTrader: (6)
 
Join Date: Jun 2010
Location: San Rafael, CA
Posts: 1,125
Total Cats: 41
Default

Should be a hoot to drive at that HP level. IIRC Ron Cortez got 200whp on his Catfish using a Rotrex. It was very competitive in class at the 2013 25hr race.
k24madness is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-08-2014, 12:11 AM   #1033
Elite Member
Thread Starter
iTrader: (1)
 
cordycord's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2011
Location: SoCal
Posts: 1,775
Total Cats: 148
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by k24madness View Post
Should be a hoot to drive at that HP level. IIRC Ron Cortez got 200whp on his Catfish using a Rotrex. It was very competitive in class at the 2013 25hr race.
The HP totally transforms the car, from sports car to high performance sports car. The difference? Having to recalibrate your senses because everything happens so fast.

Ron and Oscar Jackson had a solid race plan, but then 25 hours. The first year we "beat" the factory Audi TT in our class, mainly because they broke. Last year we broke...well, we couldn't avoid missing a car that was limping along on the racing line. At night. With no lights...

I can't wait for this year's race on the "Thunderschleiffe". A long track brings other considerations, and it will be really interesting to see who has the answers.

Last edited by cordycord; 07-08-2014 at 12:23 AM.
cordycord is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-12-2014, 11:54 PM   #1034
Elite Member
Thread Starter
iTrader: (1)
 
cordycord's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2011
Location: SoCal
Posts: 1,775
Total Cats: 148
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Leafy View Post
This is the surprising shop, most subie shops are all "here is this tune I made once for a guy with similar mods to you on an access port, thankyou for the $500".
Absolutely true. Subie owners tend to do the same things to their cars, and Cobb has done massive development (hundreds of hours) to tune these builds. These guys are used to getting three different tune maps--street, track and strip.
cordycord is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-18-2014, 03:38 AM   #1035
Elite Member
Thread Starter
iTrader: (1)
 
cordycord's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2011
Location: SoCal
Posts: 1,775
Total Cats: 148
Default Oceanside harbor

Took some pictures as the sun went down over Oceanside Harbor tonight.
Attached Thumbnails
Cordycord's epic tube frame build-20140717_195334_richtone-hdr-.jpg   Cordycord's epic tube frame build-20140717_195250_richtone-hdr-.jpg   Cordycord's epic tube frame build-20140717_195417_richtone-hdr-.jpg   Cordycord's epic tube frame build-20140717_195717_richtone-hdr-.jpg  
cordycord is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-18-2014, 03:49 AM   #1036
I take big bites
iTrader: (1)
 
turbofan's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2010
Location: Hurricane, UT
Posts: 6,927
Total Cats: 526
Default

What an incredible looking car. Would drive. Wow.

Great job, sir.
turbofan is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-18-2014, 05:06 AM   #1037
Elite Member
iTrader: (1)
 
Join Date: Jun 2006
Location: Warrington/Birmingham
Posts: 2,658
Total Cats: 39
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by cordycord View Post
Took some pictures as the sun went down over Oceanside Harbor tonight.
Good god, that looks fantastic.
richyvrlimited is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-18-2014, 05:24 AM   #1038
Elite Member
Thread Starter
iTrader: (1)
 
cordycord's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2011
Location: SoCal
Posts: 1,775
Total Cats: 148
Default

Thanks guys. .
cordycord is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-18-2014, 06:13 AM   #1039
Elite Member
iTrader: (1)
 
Join Date: Jun 2006
Location: Warrington/Birmingham
Posts: 2,658
Total Cats: 39
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by cordycord View Post
Thanks guys. .
Idle question, are your cars available RHD / can you export kits to the UK.

My old man is considering building an MX5/miata based kit car....
richyvrlimited is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-18-2014, 11:13 AM   #1040
Elite Member
Thread Starter
iTrader: (1)
 
cordycord's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2011
Location: SoCal
Posts: 1,775
Total Cats: 148
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by richyvrlimited View Post
Idle question, are your cars available RHD / can you export kits to the UK.

My old man is considering building an MX5/miata based kit car....
Yep, RHD has been researched and can be done easily. BTW, the next issue of Kit Car UK will have a feature on the Catfish.
cordycord is offline   Reply With Quote
 
 
Reply

Related Topics
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
Garrett Turbo, 1.8 Oil Pan, & Misc. Stuff nbdooey Miata parts for sale/trade 9 08-30-2017 10:50 PM
Another Cast Manifold Corky Bell Prefabbed Turbo Kits 18 11-22-2016 10:01 PM
LucaCarMods's Boosted Dutch Miata Build! LucaCarMods Build Threads 11 02-14-2016 07:13 AM
WTB MP62 (Hotside) (NB2) Rick02R WTB 3 01-03-2016 08:18 PM
Bad head gasket or ? shooterschmidty Engine Performance 8 09-30-2015 11:28 PM


Thread Tools Search this Thread
Search this Thread:

Advanced Search

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are Off
Pingbacks are Off
Refbacks are Off



All times are GMT -4. The time now is 02:27 AM.