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Old 04-25-2015, 11:00 PM   #1101
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Sweet, thanks Hornet. If it gives me trouble I might hit it with the propane torch for a minute and see if that loosens it up at all.

The MSM mixing manifold I'm using has a giant nipple in it, possibly larger than the tap hole for 1/8 NPT and thus my worry.
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Old 04-25-2015, 11:24 PM   #1102
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Not that it matters now, but washers can only (theoretically) distribute load so far from the bottom of the bolt that goes through them. My guess is the ARP ones are larger than that size. But if for science you want to stick a pair of calipers on the unused ones I can see if I can run the numbers.
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Old 04-26-2015, 03:14 AM   #1103
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Quote:
Originally Posted by EO2K View Post
The NB2/MSM COPs are supposed to be good for what, 20psi? I need to order connectors to cleanup and rebuild that harness, its a mess.
Huh. I had always heard the NB2 coils were weaker than the 99 ones. More reliable, yes, but not weaker output.

My 99 coils were misfiring at 15 psi, and that's when gapped pretty far down. The TSE/Toyota COPs fixed that problem, although I think you'd need to mill the MSM valve cover to get them to fit.

...wait, MSM valve cover? I thought you were putting a VVT head on this motor?

--Ian
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Old 04-26-2015, 06:33 AM   #1104
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Quote:
Originally Posted by EO2K View Post
The MSM mixing manifold I'm using has a giant nipple in it, possibly larger than the tap hole for 1/8 NPT and thus my worry.
Whoa!

I've only done it on the regular mixing manifolds to get rid of the little 90 on the front. If that thing is really big (haven't ever seen the MSM mm), then my advice might be bad. For example, I don't know of anyone that has pulled the oil cooler 90 that is on the back of the 1.8 head without mangling. I have pulled the "cursed water plug" fitting on the back of the 1.6 head without any issue though -- again to install a pipe plug.

Hmmmmm. Hope I didn't mess you up.

If the fitting is straight, then try to insert a bolt or rod prior to putting pliers on it so you get a good grip and keep the fitting relatively straight/unmangled. That helps the fitting keep its strength so it can be pulled. Doesn't work on a 90 of course.

Last edited by hornetball; 04-26-2015 at 07:10 AM.
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Old 04-26-2015, 02:52 PM   #1105
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Quote:
Originally Posted by PatCleary View Post
Not that it matters now, but washers can only (theoretically) distribute load so far from the bottom of the bolt that goes through them. My guess is the ARP ones are larger than that size. But if for science you want to stick a pair of calipers on the unused ones I can see if I can run the numbers.
Someone already did in one of the other head stud threads, so I'm not super concerned about it. I'll see if I can find a link later

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Originally Posted by codrus View Post
Huh. I had always heard the NB2 coils were weaker than the 99 ones. More reliable, yes, but not weaker output.
I have options. Things I have in my garage:
  • 2x BP4W valve covers
  • 3x BP4W coil packs
  • 3x sets of GM LSx D2 Truck coils
  • 2x sets Toyota COPs
  • 1x set of FAB9 COPs
  • ...plus the MSM stuff pictured

Lets just say I have problems, OK?

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Originally Posted by codrus View Post
My 99 coils were misfiring at 15 psi, and that's when gapped pretty far down. The TSE/Toyota COPs fixed that problem, although I think you'd need to mill the MSM valve cover to get them to fit.
Yeah, there are fitment issues with pretty much everything except the stock coils when dealing with the NB2 and MSM valve cover. I bought it because it was pretty, not because it was functional It very well may get swapped for one of the 4W units, but for now, I like it.

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...wait, MSM valve cover? I thought you were putting a VVT head on this motor?
Nope, 4W head. I have a complete 6D head but I decided I wasn't going to use it after I discovered sequential ignition/injection was not an option with VVT and anything other than the 4 tooth timing wheel, and I wanted more teeth. I eventually also decided to just go with the 4 tooth wheel when I found out there was no built in support for 12, 36-1 or 60-2 wheels that go on my 949 damper. That of course negated my previous decision to not use the VVT head, but it is what it is. I'm sure it will be plenty ridiculous no matter what.

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Whoa!

I've only done it on the regular mixing manifolds to get rid of the little 90 on the front. If that thing is really big (haven't ever seen the MSM mm), then my advice might be bad.
Meh, its not bad.

The fitting comes out and turns a 90 to go vertical. The outside of the tube measures 0.040" so the hole is at least that size. The Internet claims a tap drill for M14x1.5 is 12.5mm, or for those of us who use non socialist forms of measure that's 0.492" or as I like to call it, 0.5 Freedoms.

Tap drill for 1/8" NPT is like 0.339" or something so I'm already oversized for NPT. M14x1.5 is starting to sound better and better.

Quote:
Originally Posted by hornetball View Post
For example, I don't know of anyone that has pulled the oil cooler 90 that is on the back of the 1.8 head without mangling. I have pulled the "cursed water plug" fitting on the back of the 1.6 head without any issue though -- again to install a pipe plug.
Funny you should mention that... that's one of my next tasks. I've seen pics a couple of people posted, including the super destroyed on that AbeFM did I was going to cap that fitting but then I would have just created a cursed water plug, so I think I'm going to destroy that thing and tap the hole for 3/8"NPT or whatever is closest. I have a drill and tap for 3/8 so that would be ultra convenient. I need to take more measurements.

Quote:
Originally Posted by hornetball View Post
Hmmmmm. Hope I didn't mess you up.
Nah, I've not worked on it yet today. Besides, its not like I would hold you accountable. I make my own mistakes

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Originally Posted by hornetball View Post
If the fitting is straight, then try to insert a bolt or rod prior to putting pliers on it so you get a good grip and keep the fitting relatively straight/unmangled. That helps the fitting keep its strength so it can be pulled. Doesn't work on a 90 of course.
It's a 90 fitting, so I'll figure something out.
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Old 04-26-2015, 02:54 PM   #1106
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So once the oil pump is installed, can anyone think of a way to confirm that the little spring inside the front main seal is sill in place without removing the pump or the seal?
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Old 04-26-2015, 03:32 PM   #1107
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Quote:
Originally Posted by EO2K View Post
So once the oil pump is installed, can anyone think of a way to confirm that the little spring inside the front main seal is sill in place without removing the pump or the seal?
Start the engine and see if you have an oil leak?

I think the MSM VC should work with the TSE coils given a little bit of time on the mill. Of course, then it wouldn't be quite as pretty.

--Ian
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Old 04-26-2015, 03:55 PM   #1108
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Quote:
Originally Posted by EO2K View Post
The NB2/MSM COPs are supposed to be good for what, 20psi?
I've done two cars with these at 25-29psi.
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Old 04-26-2015, 04:51 PM   #1109
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Quote:
Originally Posted by codrus View Post
Start the engine and see if you have an oil leak?
Unghhhhhhhh. I was afraid someone was going to say this.

The BE pump came with the front main pre-installed. When I tried to slip it over the crank the seal went inverted (if you've ever installed one of these you will know what I'm talking about) and while I'm pretty sure it didn't dump the spring, I cannot confirm that it did not dump the spring. I was going to install the timing set today until I realized this. The 949 damper requires the magical removal tool so if the seal is screwed, I'm down for weeks playing the damper removal game. I'm trying to decide if its worth it to pull the front main and replace it out of spite.

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I think the MSM VC should work with the TSE coils given a little bit of time on the mill. Of course, then it wouldn't be quite as pretty
Yeah, this thing is not going on a mill. I like it just the way it is

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I've done two cars with these at 25-29psi.
Perfect, I was pretty sure that's what I had read in the past. I'm not sure I have enough ру́сский in my family tree to handle 25-29psi on this build
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Old 04-26-2015, 05:36 PM   #1110
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Quote:
Originally Posted by EO2K View Post

Perfect, I was pretty sure that's what I had read in the past. I'm not sure I have enough ру́сский in my family tree to handle 25-29psi on this build

Just bring it over
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Old 04-26-2015, 05:55 PM   #1111
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Quote:
Originally Posted by EO2K View Post
Unghhhhhhhh. I was afraid someone was going to say this.

damper removal game. I'm trying to decide if its worth it to pull the front main and replace it out of spite.


Perfect, I was pretty sure that's what I had read in the past. I'm not sure I have enough ру́сский in my family tree to handle 25-29psi on this build
What special tool? The ATI one comes off with a standard Kragen harmonic damper puller, some penetrating oil, and a good impact wrench. The 949 is supposed to be easier to install/remove than the ATI, right?

I put in my 3 bar map sensor yesterday -- the road to 22+ psi is open!

--Ian
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Old 04-26-2015, 06:00 PM   #1112
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My BE pump also came with a seal pre installed. Now it's leaking profusely after 3 hard track days and my be 2000 miles fortunately I'm on stock pulley so it's easy
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Old 04-26-2015, 06:10 PM   #1113
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Quote:
Originally Posted by 18psi View Post

Just bring it over
Oh I will. I wasn't kidding at all when I said I was going to get you to tune it.

Quote:
Originally Posted by codrus View Post
What special tool? The ATI one comes off with a standard Kragen harmonic damper puller, some penetrating oil, and a good impact wrench. The 949 is supposed to be easier to install/remove than the ATI, right?
Oh wait... I thought there was a removal tool. Turns out its an installation tool?

Harmonic Balancer Installer Rental

FML, I'm glad I noticed that before I just sucked it on there with the crank bolt. Time to go find instructions on how this damn thing actually works

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I put in my 3 bar map sensor yesterday -- the road to 22+ psi is open!
I saw that! My MAP sensor only goes to 21psi and I doubt I'll ever see ALLOFIT. I'm interested to see what you end up with out of the "little" GTX compared to my "little" EFR. Regardless, you are still a MUCH better driver than me so don't expect to meet up in a B or A group anytime soon.
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Old 04-26-2015, 06:21 PM   #1114
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Originally Posted by greddygalant View Post
My BE pump also came with a seal pre installed. Now it's leaking profusely after 3 hard track days and my be 2000 miles fortunately I'm on stock pulley so it's easy
Fuckit, now I'm pulling the seal.
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Old 04-26-2015, 06:45 PM   #1115
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No removal tool beyond a HF 3-jaw puller. I use the $40 installer tool to install them. You can rent/buy the nice tool if you wish but it's not necessary.

Yes, getting the BE pump in place with the front main pre-installed is pretty finnicky. I usually have a dental screwdriver on hand when I do them.
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Old 04-26-2015, 10:26 PM   #1116
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No removal tool beyond a HF 3-jaw puller. I use the $40 installer tool to install them. You can rent/buy the nice tool if you wish but it's not necessary.
I think I knew that but thank you for confirming.

This $40 tool?

Crank Holder Balancer Miata

Please forgive my unrepentant noobishness but how exactly does that thing work?

Or are we talking about one of these things:


Quote:
Originally Posted by Savington View Post
Yes, getting the BE pump in place with the front main pre-installed is pretty finnicky. I usually have a dental screwdriver on hand when I do them.
I don't know what a "dental screwdriver" is but its not something I ever want in my life.

Well, whaddaya know?

Part out avoided. I got a little aggressive with my little screwdriver prying the seal out, but the bore is untouched. I'll take a jewelers file to the little marks and disappear them before I put in a new front main.
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Old 04-26-2015, 10:55 PM   #1117
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Originally Posted by EO2K View Post
Part out avoided. I got a little aggressive with my little screwdriver prying the seal out, but the bore is untouched. I'll take a jewelers file to the little marks and disappear them before I put in a new front main.
So was the spring in place or not?

I install the ATI with a long bolt of the same threads as the crank bolt and a bunch of washers.

--Ian
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Old 04-26-2015, 11:20 PM   #1118
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Also, back to this thing:


I tossed it in the vice and gave it a twist to break it loose. After that I was able to just work it back and fourth until it popped out. For the record the hole measures just a hair above 10mm. The OEM hole is off center so drilling it out to 1/2" and then tapping it for M14x1.5 is just not going to be an option. After thinking about it for more than 2 minutes it occurs to me that I can also buy Fragola M12x1.5 to -6AN adapters. They are a bastard to find because both Summit and Jegs list them as "carburetor adapters" rather than metric to an fittings.

The tap hole for x1.5 is 10.5mm and because 10.5mm is a drill size I can actually buy from Amazon, M12x1.5 to -6 it is! Hopefully that does not cause too much restriction in the system. I mean I'm sure it'll flow better than a banjo so no harm, no foul.
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Last edited by EO2K; 04-26-2015 at 11:57 PM.
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Old 04-26-2015, 11:26 PM   #1119
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So was the spring in place or not?
Yeah, the spring is loose in there, its the silver band with the kink in it at about 10 o'clock.

Quote:
Originally Posted by codrus View Post
I install the ATI with a long bolt of the same threads as the crank bolt and a bunch of washers.

--Ian
I could probably get away with doing that, but if I *** it up I'm going to be very, very frustrated.
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Old 04-26-2015, 11:28 PM   #1120
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They are a bastard to find because both Summit and Jegs list them as "carburetor adapters" rather than metric to an fittings.
I can't see the photo, but the way I find AN fittings is to go to the Earl's page (now owned by Holley), search through their catalog to find the part I want, and then type in the Earl's/Holley part # into the Summit site. There's stuff in there that won't show up in the normal Summit search.

https://www.holley.com/products/plumbing/

Earl's has 'em in the metric to AN section

https://www.holley.com/products/plum...o_an_adapters/

--Ian
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