sean's cheap thrills, 90 1.6 with subaru td04 - Page 44 - Miata Turbo Forum - Boost cars, acquire cats.

Welcome to Miataturbo.net   Members
 


Build Threads Building a motor? Post the progress here.

Reply
 
 
 
LinkBack Thread Tools Search this Thread
Old 09-06-2015, 12:11 AM   #861
Elite Member
iTrader: (15)
 
patsmx5's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2007
Location: Houston, TX
Posts: 8,650
Total Cats: 235
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by hi_im_sean View Post
Will drive more, will not rev out.

1. Steel top, ductile iron 2nd. Still not sure if the top is PVD? coated. they are the 777 series, and in either case it should have a 220 stone.
pg 13 http://www.npramerica.com/attachement/Introduction1.pdf

2. Dont know, grabbed the hone you see in the pic linked above and said, yea, that should work. no markings on it, im guessing thats a 320. what do you think. Like I said, if anything I did was to blame, this would probably be it.

3. Absolutely oriented the gaps correctly, ring gaps are also right on. but yea, thats not going to pop the dipstick. Its also not burning oil as far as I can tell.

4. Forgot t6 is syn, will wait, itll go in the thubaru

5. Will pull plugs, what am I looking for? fwiw I went one step colder with regular electrode NGKs

thanks pat
1. Sounds like you got molly rings, and didn't hone it correctly. If it makes you feel any better, I've done that twice in the past! The proper way to hone a cylinder bore for moly rings involves doing a plateau hone, which is using 3 different hones. A rough one, then a smoother one, then a smoother one still. The rough one roughs it up, and the progressively smoother hones knock down the edges in steps.

This is probably what's wrong. Your hone job is likely way to rough, and it just knocked all the moly off the rings, so now you got hard steel rubbing against the bore so it's going to take forever to get it to wear in and seal, and it will never seal perfect.

I'd put some miles on it and see if it gets any better. If after say 500 miles it still sucks. put a latch on the dip stick, run your two breathers to a catch can and give it hell. Or yank the motor and try again.
patsmx5 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 09-06-2015, 12:17 AM   #862
SadFab CEO
Thread Starter
iTrader: (3)
 
hi_im_sean's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2012
Location: your mom's house phoenix, AZ
Posts: 3,828
Total Cats: 555
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by patsmx5 View Post
1. Sounds like you got molly rings, and didn't hone it correctly. If it makes you feel any better, I've done that twice in the past! The proper way to hone a cylinder bore for moly rings involves doing a plateau hone, which is using 3 different hones. A rough one, then a smoother one, then a smoother one still. The rough one roughs it up, and the progressively smoother hones knock down the edges in steps.

This is probably what's wrong. Your hone job is likely way to rough, and it just knocked all the moly off the rings, so now you got hard steel rubbing against the bore so it's going to take forever to get it to wear in and seal, and it will never seal perfect.

I'd put some miles on it and see if it gets any better. If after say 500 miles it still sucks. put a latch on the dip stick, run your two breathers to a catch can and give it hell. Or yank the motor and try again.
you sure? it says right in the pdf I should have used a 220, or did I read something wrong.
hi_im_sean is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 09-06-2015, 12:17 AM   #863
Elite Member
iTrader: (15)
 
patsmx5's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2007
Location: Houston, TX
Posts: 8,650
Total Cats: 235
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by hi_im_sean View Post
I know but the valve still restricts to a degree. Its easy enough and free, so Id be glad to try, just seems kind of bandaid to me when I have issues at such low psi. You guys with "more used" motors with original rings making 10psi+, sure. I dunno, cant hurt.
Damn there is way too much talk about PCV valves on this forum. That said, just put a check valve on it and be done. The restriction to flow it built into the PCV valve already, so an inline valve in a 3/8" hose is essentially no restriction. And even if it was, it's for emissions so who cares anyways.

As you said PCV is disconnected now, I'd keep it that way at least until you have the dipstick problem solved. No point in adding that variable right now.
patsmx5 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 09-06-2015, 12:19 AM   #864
SadFab CEO
Thread Starter
iTrader: (3)
 
hi_im_sean's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2012
Location: your mom's house phoenix, AZ
Posts: 3,828
Total Cats: 555
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by patsmx5 View Post
Damn there is way too much talk about PCV valves on this forum.
true that pat
hi_im_sean is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 09-06-2015, 12:20 AM   #865
Elite Member
iTrader: (15)
 
patsmx5's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2007
Location: Houston, TX
Posts: 8,650
Total Cats: 235
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by hi_im_sean View Post
you sure? it says right in the pdf I should have used a 220, or did I read something wrong.
I don't know what rings you got.

To avoid all the confusion, I've always bought high dollar moly rings that I know what they are. Of course I also put a motor together with moly rings after honing it with 220 grit not knowing any better. It still worked and didn't blow the dipstick out, but it did burn a tiny amount of oil.
patsmx5 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 09-06-2015, 12:22 AM   #866
Elite Member
iTrader: (15)
 
patsmx5's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2007
Location: Houston, TX
Posts: 8,650
Total Cats: 235
Default

If I were you I'd put a piece of hose over the metal pipe the dip stick goes into, a hose clamp, stick the dip stick in and clamp that sucker down. Gut the PCV valve and run both of those hoses to a catch can. Track the **** out of it.
patsmx5 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 09-06-2015, 12:23 AM   #867
SadFab CEO
Thread Starter
iTrader: (3)
 
hi_im_sean's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2012
Location: your mom's house phoenix, AZ
Posts: 3,828
Total Cats: 555
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by patsmx5 View Post
I don't know what rings you got.

To avoid all the confusion, I've always bought high dollar moly rings that I know what they are. Of course I also put a motor together with moly rings after honing it with 220 grit not knowing any better. It still worked and didn't blow the dipstick out, but it did burn a tiny amount of oil.

This is the exact listing I bought
86 95 Mazda Miata 323 Mercury Capri Tracer 1 6L NPR Piston Rings B6 B6E B6ZE | eBay
hi_im_sean is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 09-06-2015, 12:25 AM   #868
SadFab CEO
Thread Starter
iTrader: (3)
 
hi_im_sean's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2012
Location: your mom's house phoenix, AZ
Posts: 3,828
Total Cats: 555
Default

So now that im reading the pdf in deapth, this is cool

"NPR manufacturers each piston ring gap with the correct OEM specification for each individual
engine. There is no need, nor do we recommend that you alter them in anyway as this might void
our warranty. Also note these end gaps are set at exact bore dimensions. If the bore is slightly
oversize (for example 92.52mm instead of 92.50mm) then the end gap will increase accordingly. "


that explains why i didnt have to file a thing lol
hi_im_sean is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 09-06-2015, 12:26 AM   #869
SadFab CEO
Thread Starter
iTrader: (3)
 
hi_im_sean's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2012
Location: your mom's house phoenix, AZ
Posts: 3,828
Total Cats: 555
Default

and then this

"For use with our piston rings we recommend a Plateau Honing with a Cylinder
Bore cross hatch angle of 35 – 40 degrees.
For NPR Piston Rings we recommend a roughness of:
NPR recomienda para sus anillos , una aspereza de :
Rz = 59 – 138 in [= 1.5 – 3.5 m] or
Ra = 15 – 135 in [= 0.4 – 0.9 m]
To reach this roughness the manufacturers of honing machines & accessories
recommend to use for a gray cast iron engine block
• Conventional stones #220 - #280 grit or
• Diamond stones #325 - #550 grit "


I got pretty close to 40 degrees
hi_im_sean is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 09-06-2015, 12:28 AM   #870
SadFab CEO
Thread Starter
iTrader: (3)
 
hi_im_sean's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2012
Location: your mom's house phoenix, AZ
Posts: 3,828
Total Cats: 555
Default

Since these are OEM replacement, im going to see if the FSM says **** about this.
hi_im_sean is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 09-06-2015, 12:37 AM   #871
Elite Member
iTrader: (15)
 
patsmx5's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2007
Location: Houston, TX
Posts: 8,650
Total Cats: 235
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by hi_im_sean View Post
and then this

"For use with our piston rings we recommend a Plateau Honing with a Cylinder
Bore cross hatch angle of 35 40 degrees.
For NPR Piston Rings we recommend a roughness of:
NPR recomienda para sus anillos , una aspereza de :
Rz = 59 138 in [= 1.5 3.5 m] or
Ra = 15 135 in [= 0.4 0.9 m]
To reach this roughness the manufacturers of honing machines & accessories
recommend to use for a gray cast iron engine block
Conventional stones #220 - #280 grit or
Diamond stones #325 - #550 grit "


I got pretty close to 40 degrees
Well there's your answer. You didn't plateau hone it, and you don't know what stone you used either.

Still, unless you want to tear it down and redo it, I'd put some miles on it and latch the dipstick on and track the crap out of it.
patsmx5 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 09-06-2015, 12:42 AM   #872
SadFab CEO
Thread Starter
iTrader: (3)
 
hi_im_sean's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2012
Location: your mom's house phoenix, AZ
Posts: 3,828
Total Cats: 555
Default

Well ****. For these rings I took plateau honing as a final touch, not a requirement. You are probably right, and I suspected it from the beginning.
hi_im_sean is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 09-06-2015, 12:47 AM   #873
SadFab CEO
Thread Starter
iTrader: (3)
 
hi_im_sean's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2012
Location: your mom's house phoenix, AZ
Posts: 3,828
Total Cats: 555
Default

Oh yea

RE-motor mounts
Buzzy at low rpm below 2500, smooths out instantly above 2500. Would suck for a DD, or in traffic, but I like me for my purposes. The headlights rattle around at idle now.
hi_im_sean is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 09-07-2015, 03:44 AM   #874
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Jan 2013
Location: Gilbert, AZ
Posts: 731
Total Cats: 91
Default

Be sure to go over the whole car and make sure everything is toight like a toiger.

I have the medium duro 949 Racing mounts and have caught bolts backing themselves out. I should have went with the soft duro ones.
Arca_ex is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 09-07-2015, 09:55 AM   #875
SadFab CEO
Thread Starter
iTrader: (3)
 
hi_im_sean's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2012
Location: your mom's house phoenix, AZ
Posts: 3,828
Total Cats: 555
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Arca_ex View Post
Be sure to go over the whole car and make sure everything is toight like a toiger.

I have the medium duro 949 Racing mounts and have caught bolts backing themselves out. I should have went with the soft duro ones.

lol great, more maintenance.


I fixed the oil drain last night, hopefully anyway as I havnt tested it yet, wanted to let RTV cure overnight. After a few attempts at gettiing the AN line to seal, I realized it was never going to. Cheap ebay AN for the lose. You can see where the tapers are meeting at a single point instead of across the whole taper causing leaks. Its funny though the feed line parts were made by the same suppliers (Kinugawa and Silicone intakes) and its dry. So I just bolted the stock suby oil drain back on and ran some hydraulic hose to a new barb fitting on the oil pan.

I still have that weird click in the chassis when you apply the brakes, need to find that. Ideas?

Im going to try to drive the hell out of it today and get some miles on her.... after I check the brakes and for loose hardware.
hi_im_sean is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 09-07-2015, 11:57 AM   #876
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Jan 2013
Location: Gilbert, AZ
Posts: 731
Total Cats: 91
Default

It is possible it's just the pads clicking from shifting in the calipers? You have all the metal clips/hardware/springs installed correctly?
Arca_ex is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 09-07-2015, 12:12 PM   #877
SadFab CEO
Thread Starter
iTrader: (3)
 
hi_im_sean's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2012
Location: your mom's house phoenix, AZ
Posts: 3,828
Total Cats: 555
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Arca_ex View Post
It is possible it's just the pads clicking from shifting in the calipers? You have all the metal clips/hardware/springs installed correctly?
Did brakes not too long ago, clips were in place, doesnt mean they arent now. It sounds like its coming from the pass side. This problem started on the last session of the last track day, I think in april, pads were replaced for that track day, or maybe it was the one before it.
hi_im_sean is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 09-07-2015, 12:44 PM   #878
SadFab CEO
Thread Starter
iTrader: (3)
 
hi_im_sean's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2012
Location: your mom's house phoenix, AZ
Posts: 3,828
Total Cats: 555
Default

Some dumbass didnt torque the drivers side rear caliper bracket when he did brakes in feb or march or whatever it was. It wasnt "hand loose", but both bolts werent torqued either


Going to go cruise right now and see if that was it.
hi_im_sean is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 09-07-2015, 04:00 PM   #879
SadFab CEO
Thread Starter
iTrader: (3)
 
hi_im_sean's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2012
Location: your mom's house phoenix, AZ
Posts: 3,828
Total Cats: 555
Default

Oil leak fixed!

I put the stock PCV back on just so I could get a decel vacuum on the intake, then drove 15 freeway miles, not exceeding 4k rmps. I alternated between cruising and 70-90% throttle runs from 3k to 4k rpm in 4rth and 5th. Dip stick still in place. That doesnt mean anything is better, but it could indicate that the problem isnt as bad as it first seemed.

Clicking on braking still happens. All the anti rattle clips are there, and now that im looking at them again, they are fairly new, but the pads are still rock back and forth about 1/16" in the abutment. stop tech pads, meh. Im still not sure thats the cause though.

XTG4 clutch with 9lb flywheel- awesome, would daily, #manclutch, but not really, its really not stiff at all. Yes stiffer than stock, but I prefer that. Ive installed stock replacement sachs clutches into mustangs that were more difficult. Seriosuly though this is an easy clutch to drive, even with a 9lb flywheel. I dont get all the bitching and crying.


3rd gear synchro is being a *** again. Syncromesh took care of that bitch for an entire track season and more. I have a fresh bottle awaiting.
hi_im_sean is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 09-07-2015, 04:20 PM   #880
Murderator
iTrader: (76)
 
18psi's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2008
Posts: 35,739
Total Cats: 2,481
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by hi_im_sean View Post
I dont get all the bitching and crying. .
and you will not, until you grow up a little and the #becauseracecar stuff gets old
I'm completely serious about this too

I'm really glad your car is getting sorted out though
18psi is offline   Reply With Quote
 
 
Reply

Related Topics
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
Project Gemini - Turbo Civic on the Cheap Full_Tilt_Boogie Build Threads 57 07-19-2017 04:11 PM
WTB MP62 (Hotside) (NB2) Rick02R WTB 3 01-03-2016 07:18 PM
Going back to stock. Need some 1.6 parts. Trent WTB 2 10-01-2015 12:15 PM
3rd Time's a Charm...hopefully. zephyrusaurai Meet and Greet 2 09-28-2015 10:59 PM


Tags
i do everything twice

Thread Tools Search this Thread
Search this Thread:

Advanced Search

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are Off
Pingbacks are Off
Refbacks are Off



All times are GMT -4. The time now is 04:20 PM.