sean's cheap thrills, 90 1.6 with subaru td04 - Page 43 - Miata Turbo Forum - Boost cars, acquire cats.

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Old 09-01-2015, 02:00 AM   #841
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Possible, but there was about a month and a half between the 2. Including a track day.
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Old 09-01-2015, 02:03 AM   #842
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Re turbo specs: my turbo has a bigger compressor wheel so same psi mine has more air?
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Old 09-01-2015, 02:05 AM   #843
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only thing bigger on your turbo is the comp inducer and trim. barely. everything else is smaller
who knows what took it out, it will be interesting to see the the guts that's for sure. possibly fatigue from you molesting it like a 5 dollar hooker
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Old 09-01-2015, 02:09 AM   #844
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Weird. Always thought it was smaller.
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Old 09-01-2015, 02:26 AM   #845
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I wouldn't go to the dyno till you know your ****'s close with Virtualdyno or whatever, for maximum use of dyno time. Even then, I wouldn't..

The shop up the street from me told me he'd charge like half the rate for several hours of road tuning before the dyno, and I haven't been back since. If it's good enough for him, it'll work for me.
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Old 09-01-2015, 10:29 AM   #846
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Quote:
Originally Posted by deezums View Post
I wouldn't go to the dyno till you know your ****'s close with Virtualdyno or whatever, for maximum use of dyno time. Even then, I wouldn't..
I will be doing 90% of the tuning, dyno will be for the final fine tuning, and to monitor and get data when attempting ALL OF IT.
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Old 09-02-2015, 01:20 PM   #847
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<p>RE BOV:</p><p>I wanted a VTA bov for only 1 reason. Seriously, its the only reason I bought that BOV.</p><p>
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Old 09-05-2015, 09:39 PM   #848
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/\/\ Must have watched 10 times, many laughs had.

Quote:
Originally Posted by hi_im_sean View Post
rings arnt sealing up on that stupid ---- motor.
Quote:
Originally Posted by patsmx5 View Post
New motor you just assembled?
Monday- Stock PCV, and the dip stick is popping out under boost. This was a little concerning with a new motor, especially with an open breather on drivers side. But stock PCV is stock. Oil drain is also leaking fwiw.

Tuesday- pulled the PCV, actually passed the blow test pretty well, ****. So I blocked off the intake and ran the PCV port to atmosphere. so thats both VC ports to atmosphere. Also ran the WG to full preload because **** logic. Did one 2-3-4 pull, dipstick stayed, did another few and it popped. Oil drain started to make a mess so Ive parked it since then.

Quote:
Originally Posted by aidandj View Post
Why no track?
I dunno, this just pissed me off and, I want things to be right before I go to the track again. Id rather save track funds for 1.8. Not ******* with this 1.6 anymore.

Quote:
Originally Posted by patsmx5 View Post
It might not be the rings.
Do tell.

Quote:
Originally Posted by patsmx5 View Post
How many miles are on it so far?
Maybe 20 miles. Im of the belief rings seat pretty dam quick, and if they dont at first they likely wont?

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Originally Posted by patsmx5 View Post
Have you beat on it some?
Yes, im a believer of what you and aidan are implying. I firmly agree with the "motoman" break-in.

It went something like this: Start up and idle for a minute while I set timing made sure fire wasnt coming out of anything, no fuel leaks, etc. Then alternated between gently rev up to maybe 2-3k and idle @1100rpm until the fan came on @ 205* . Turned it off, let it cool down an hour or 2 so I could top it off after the burb. Started it back up, idled until it warmed up with maybe just a rev or 3 here or there. Took it out and started doing light pulls as autotune did its thing. First time to about 4k, then a little more, then a little more as i confirmed AFRs were in check up to about 6k at 50-75% throttle I would guess, have logs somewhere. After 2, 2nd through 4rth gear runs at pretty good throttle up to about 6k, I started to give it hell, at least all the hell a neutrally preloaded wastegate would give, which was 4psi. I did 3 I think WOT runs through 2nd through 4rth to 7000rpm, and brought it home to look at the log check things over. Thats when I first noticed the dipstick popped out.

That was all last monday. As I said above, the next day I preloaded the WG all the way and drove it a few more miles with a handfull of 6 psi, WOT, to redline pulls. Another thing I need to figure out as vlad says that should hold 10psi. I still have the BOV spring set really weak, and it may be blowing open a little.

I guessed my boosted VE cells really close and autotune worked so well, AFRs never did anything crazy. I had a solid 14.8:1 idle from the get go as i tuned idle with these injector before I tore the motor apart, and they never dipped below low 11's while tuning, so cylinder washing is out. They also never exceeded high 12s in boost while autotuning. I would bet AFRs were never more than +/-0.5 from my targets at any point.


Quote:
Originally Posted by patsmx5 View Post
What oil are you running?
oreilly brand cheap regular 10w-40 with a splash of comp cams zinc breakin additive because flat tappets, and I figured it couldnt hurt. I have 5qts of T6 ready to go after I dump the break in oil.

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What hone did you use on the block?
If anything is to blame this may be it.
https://www.miataturbo.net/build-thr...7/#post1258341

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Originally Posted by patsmx5 View Post
Did you scrub the cylinder bores with a sponge/brush and soap and water after honing it?
Yup, twice, then did the paper towel and WD40 thing until it comes out clean.


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Originally Posted by patsmx5 View Post
Could just be taking longer than normal to seat the rings, or could be something else entirely.
This is my hope. What else could it be though? Steam seals are the only other leak path I know of, I cant imagine them blowing by that much air, especially at 4psi, and especially when they are new.

I did the piece of paper over the oil fill test to see if it would flap, and it flaps something fierce like a new motor should, im guessing that means they are only leaking under boost.

Im going to just drive it an put some mile on it in any case. Need to fix the drain first, just been too busy this week. Need just a few tidbits for ebc, then ill see if i can shoot the dipstick out of the hood.

Last edited by hi_im_sean; 09-05-2015 at 10:37 PM.
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Old 09-05-2015, 09:51 PM   #849
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Also forgot to mention that Mike came up with the idea of just buying a whole car, eitehr salvaged or "mechanics special" or wrecked al a Aidan, to get a 1.8 and maybe a spare tarns, and part out the rest. Thats how we found the 93/94. Good, running miatas are just too much $$$ around here.

Just found a few more options, might drive to SoCal to grab one since the market there is more realistic. Even if this motor seats in, we are still looking for another car since it make so much sense.
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Old 09-05-2015, 09:58 PM   #850
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Quote:
Originally Posted by hi_im_sean View Post
/\/\ Must have watched 10 times, many laughs had.





Monday- Stock PCV, and the dip stick is popping out under boost. This was a little concerning with a new motor, especially with an open breather on drivers side. But stock PCV is stock. Oil drain is also leaking fwiw.

Sunday- pulled the PCV, actually passed the blow test pretty well, ****. So I blocked off the intake and ran the PCV port to atmosphere. so thats both VC ports to atmosphere. Also ran the WG to full preload because **** logic. Did one 2-3-4 pull, dipstick stayed, did another few and it popped. Oil drain started to make a mess so Ive parked it since then.



I dunno, this just pissed me off and, I want things to be right before I go to the track again. Id rather save track funds for 1.8. Not ******* with this 1.6 anymore.



Do tell.



Maybe 20 miles. Im of the belief rings seat pretty dam quick, and if they dont at first they likely wont?



Yes, im a believer of what you and aidan are implying. I firmly agree with the "motoman" break-in.

It went something like this: Start up and idle for a minute while I set timing made sure fire wasnt coming out of anything, no fuel leaks, etc. Then alternated between gently rev up to maybe 2-3k and idle @1100rpm until the fan came on @ 205* . Turned it off, let it cool down an hour or 2 so I could top it off after the burb. Started it back up, idled until it warmed up with maybe just a rev or 3 here or there. Took it out and started doing light pulls as autotune did its thing. First time to about 4k, then a little more, then a little more as i confirmed AFRs were in check up to about 6k at 50-75% throttle I would guess, have logs somewhere. After 2, 2nd through 4rth gear runs at pretty good throttle up to about 6k, I started to give it hell, at least all the hell a neutrally preloaded wastegate would give, which was 4psi. I did 3 I think WOT runs through 2nd through 4rth to 7000rpm, and brought it home to look at the log check things over. Thats when I first noticed the dipstick popped out.

That was all last monday. As I said above, the next day I preloaded the WG all the way and drove it a few more miles with a handfull of 6 psi, WOT, to redline pulls. Another thing I need to figure out as vlad says that should hold 10psi. I still have the BOV spring set really weak, and it may be blowing open a little.

I guessed my boosted VE cells really close and autotune worked so well, AFRs never did anything crazy. I had a solid 14.8:1 idle from the get go as i tuned idle with these injector before I tore the motor apart, and they never dipped below low 11's while tuning, so cylinder washing is out. They also never exceeded high 12s in boost while autotuning. I would bet AFRs were never more than +/-0.5 from my targets at any point.




oreilly brand cheap regular 10w-40 with a splash of comp cams zinc breakin additive because flat tappets, and I figured it couldnt hurt. I have 5qts of T6 ready to go after I dump the break in oil.



If anything is to blame this may be it.
https://www.miataturbo.net/build-thr...7/#post1258341



Yup, twice, then did the paper towel and WD40 thing until it comes out clean.




This is my hope. What else could it be though? Steam seals are the only other leak path I know of, I cant imagine them blowing by that much air, especially at 4psi, and especially when they are new.

I did the piece of paper over the oil fill test to see if it would flap, and it flaps something fierce like a new motor should, im guessing that means they are only leaking under boost.

Im going to just drive it an put some mile on it in any case. Need to fix the drain first, just been too busy this week. Need just a few tidbits for ebc, then ill see if i can shoot the dipstick out of the hood.
20 miles is nothing. Go drive it and put a couple hundred on it.

I guess the only thing I would do differently on the break in is use a 30W oil, and not rev it so high at first. I would run it hard as you did, just not that high. My current motor I kept it below 4K for first 100 miles or so, though it did see some load during that. Then 5K, I think I didn't get it to 7-8K until 700 miles or so. Still I doubt that's your main problem.

I would really want to know 2 things:
1. What type or rings did you actually get. IE-regular rings or moly rings. You have one or the other, and you need to know which. I know 100% that my 99+ motors all had moly rings from the factory, and that's what I used on the new motors.

2. What grit hone did you use. What hone you use depends on what rings you have.

Also, when you installed the rings, did you orient the gaps 180* apart between the first and second set of compression rings? Curious, but again that's not going to make it burn a ton of oil.

I would hold off on synthetic oil for a while, like at least a couple thousand miles. Especially if you think your rings aren't sealing properly.

I'd also pull the plugs and have a look.
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Old 09-05-2015, 09:59 PM   #851
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Browse iaai, find a yard near you.
<br />PCV didn't pass aidandj blowtest, only hi_I'm_Sean blowtest. Probably still bad. Get the check valve I linked to in the catch can thread, it solved my dipstick problem.
<br />What does compression test say. IMO PCV is more likely to pop dipstick than blow by. In the MSM valve cover mods he only recorded like 2psi MAX from blow by. Think of what 10+psi through the PCV valve does.
<br />Also, I wasn't joking about rings are overrated. This is a rods only 1.6, not a stroker 2 liter, turn up the boost and check the oil often. Track the **** out of it.
<br />Your rings are obviously better than before and if you can make it through a track session without running out of oil then do it. Smoke screens are dope.
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Old 09-05-2015, 10:10 PM   #852
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Quote:
Originally Posted by patsmx5 View Post
20 miles is nothing. Go drive it and put a couple hundred on it.

I guess the only thing I would do differently on the break in is use a 30W oil, and not rev it so high at first. I would run it hard as you did, just not that high. My current motor I kept it below 4K for first 100 miles or so, though it did see some load during that. Then 5K, I think I didn't get it to 7-8K until 700 miles or so. Still I doubt that's your main problem.

I would really want to know 2 things:
1. What type or rings did you actually get. IE-regular rings or moly rings. You have one or the other, and you need to know which. I know 100% that my 99+ motors all had moly rings from the factory, and that's what I used on the new motors.

2. What grit hone did you use. What hone you use depends on what rings you have.

Also, when you installed the rings, did you orient the gaps 180* apart between the first and second set of compression rings? Curious, but again that's not going to make it burn a ton of oil.

I would hold off on synthetic oil for a while, like at least a couple thousand miles. Especially if you think your rings aren't sealing properly.

I'd also pull the plugs and have a look.
Will drive more, will not rev out.

1. Steel top, ductile iron 2nd. Still not sure if the top is PVD? coated. they are the 777 series, and in either case it should have a 220 stone.
pg 13 http://www.npramerica.com/attachement/Introduction1.pdf

2. Dont know, grabbed the hone you see in the pic linked above and said, yea, that should work. no markings on it, im guessing thats a 320. what do you think. Like I said, if anything I did was to blame, this would probably be it.

3. Absolutely oriented the gaps correctly, ring gaps are also right on. but yea, thats not going to pop the dipstick. Its also not burning oil as far as I can tell.

4. Forgot t6 is syn, will wait, itll go in the thubaru

5. Will pull plugs, what am I looking for? fwiw I went one step colder with regular electrode NGKs

thanks pat
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Old 09-05-2015, 10:12 PM   #853
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Quote:
Originally Posted by aidandj View Post
Browse iaai, find a yard near you.
<br />PCV didn't pass aidandj blowtest, only hi_I'm_Sean blowtest. Probably still bad. Get the check valve I linked to in the catch can thread, it solved my dipstick problem.
<br />What does compression test say. IMO PCV is more likely to pop dipstick than blow by. In the MSM valve cover mods he only recorded like 2psi MAX from blow by. Think of what 10+psi through the PCV valve does.
<br />Also, I wasn't joking about rings are overrated. This is a rods only 1.6, not a stroker 2 liter, turn up the boost and check the oil often. Track the **** out of it.
<br />Your rings are obviously better than before and if you can make it through a track session without running out of oil then do it. Smoke screens are dope.


GUYS!!!! its not smoking or burning oil, just pressurizing the crankcase!!!!!

Aidan- read what I wrote, I know its a lot, but read it. PCV port on mani is blcoked, PCV valve is sitting on the bench, PCV port on valve cover is vented to atmo, still pops dipstick.
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Old 09-05-2015, 10:14 PM   #854
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But yea, gay 1.6, not a diamond, will beat the **** out of it regardless.
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Old 09-05-2015, 10:20 PM   #855
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Don't know how I missed that.
<br />Did you drill out the valve cover?
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Old 09-05-2015, 10:37 PM   #856
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Quote:
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Don't know how I missed that.
<br />Did you drill out the valve cover?
You have the ADD, you skim and scan, amirite?

Did not drill out. Didnt learn about that until I sealed the VC back up. Only had it open to possibly stuff scour pad into it, but realized thats probably a bad idea. I would think removing the PCV entirely would do way more than drilling it out, but the choke point could be the baffles, not the PCV or its port size, dunno.
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Old 09-05-2015, 10:46 PM   #857
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Baffles are restriction not valve
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Old 09-05-2015, 10:49 PM   #858
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I know but the valve still restricts to a degree. Its easy enough and free, so Id be glad to try, just seems kind of bandaid to me when I have issues at such low psi. You guys with "more used" motors with original rings making 10psi+, sure. I dunno, cant hurt.
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Old 09-05-2015, 10:50 PM   #859
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Also if 6psi is this awesome, cant wait for 12, or 18. Im going to need more injector.
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Old 09-05-2015, 11:56 PM   #860
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Quote:
Originally Posted by aidandj View Post
Don't know how I missed that.
<br />Did you drill out the valve cover?
This is where I should go back and copy/paste that big letter post of your about "does anybody read blah blah..."....
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