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Old 04-20-2013, 04:06 AM   #181
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but it sure looks like the govt is gearing up for civil war and is trying to make sheep out of as many of its citizens as possible before that happens. I see a lot of the police armored vehicles on TV also, the big black 'rescue' ones with the gun ports on them.

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Yep that's how it is everywhere in America right now. Tanks on every street corner, and a mandatory curfew...

Are you ******* high?

You talk about corruption and gun control and you live in a country with FAR tighter gun laws than the US (even if the bans we are all freaking out about went into effect, we would STILL have more lax standards than Aussies), and Australia is currently battling with corruption in its own government and trying to model a system after the US and UK's because it doesn't have a coherent plan in place!

Here have an article:Corruption and Enforcement II: Does Australia Have a Problem? | UNSW CLMR

I don't know where all you doom and gloomers get on with this "the end is nigh" BS but you should consider taking a mouth-full of foot.

So Dann, the problem with America is pissed off teenagers growing up and becoming ***** cops? Because no one is ever a ***** down under right? GTFO. Telling people to stay in their homes because a GUN FIGHT was going on outside their door is the patriot act? You sound like a 12 year old conspiracy theorist. Dorner just wanted to end corruption? Which is why he killed a bunch of innocent people, stole some cars, set some **** on fire, you know, the usual way to fight corruption right? I did it just last week when I wasn't recognized for effort at work...

Do I come on here telling you how shitty the weather is in Sydney right now? No, because I don't have a clue... Seeing a trend?
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Old 04-20-2013, 04:43 AM   #182
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It's been my experience, in general, that we (humans) tend to draw overly dramatic and broad generalizations about the sociopolitical status of countries which are foreign to use, based largely upon media stereotypes.

Eg: the French are lazy, disorganized peasants. The Germans are humorless snobs who drink fizzy beer. The Aussies are beer-swilling lunatics who fist-fight kangaroos. The Americans are a bunch of gun-toting cowboys who talk like John Wayne. The Dutch are all hippy potheads who wear wooden shoes. And so on...

The thing is, when you actually visit these places, you find out that most of this crap isn't even remotely true, and that we are all a lot more alike than most of us would have thought. And a lot of countries (Canada, the US, Australia, Russia, China, etc) are so damned big that we have more diversity of culture, religion and political philosophy under one roof than any three or four nations of Africa or Europe combined.

(Admittedly, I have never been to Australia, so for all I know kangaroo boxing might actually be a real thing.)

Our biggest problem is that we're still in the adolescence of statehood as compared to most of the nations of Europe and Asia. So we don't have an especially good sense of perspective in a lot of matters. And the fact that as early as 100 years ago a large portion of this country did in fact consist of wilderness and cowboys means that as we settle down into a more "civilized" condition, a lot of what most nations take for granted in terms of law and order seems oppressive to us by comparison. "What do you mean you want to restrict the type of machine guns and grenade launchers that I can keep in my private arsenal? It says right here in our Constitution that I'm allowed to keep military weapons at home." If you take a step back, that alone is kind of a weird thing to have enumerated as a basic civil right in the grand scheme of things.

The US isn't a police state. If you want to see a police state, go hang around Libya or North Korea. It's just that most of us 'merkins can't tell the difference, since we've never witnessed actual oppression first-hand.
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Old 04-20-2013, 09:46 AM   #183
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'merkins are oppressed when police close down McDonalds & KFC due to a bombing.
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Old 04-20-2013, 10:40 AM   #184
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Its been my experience that people also tend to idolize places and things they know little about. Its why so many people automatically assume something imported from wherever is higher quality than a domestically produced good. It may be, it may not be. Importation itself has little to do with it.

We may be in an adolescence of statehood (that's certainly true in terms of population density over time in the western half of the country) but consider also that on a governmental level so are many countries in the EU and that the EU itself could be characterized as a newborn. The same goes for much of the world. Like India, most of the Middle East, Central America, South America, Russia, much of Africa, etc.

The US does have different norms, and that's more than just an effect of being on a different point in a developmental timeline. Hopefully a lot of the massive traumas that have shaped Europe in a grand scale during past 200 years will simply not happen here at any point in the foreseeable future. There's a reasonable chance they wont. French farmers still have ordinance disposal bins on their combines. I mean sweet Jesus. That was over 70 years ago. We did not know what DNA was then.

My point, such as it is here, is that on a permanent and sustainable level North America in general probably should have different norms even after its 'adolescence'.
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Old 04-20-2013, 11:20 AM   #185
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Originally Posted by Joe Perez View Post
I will say one thing. Based on the reports that they put up not only a running gun battle, but also left a trail of bombs in their wake during the pursuit, I have to commend those two for their preparedness vis-a-vis the post-attack followthrough.
really?

Because they could have pre-planned a flight out of the country before anyone knew who they were...

instead they carjacked someone, told him they were the bombers, posted about it online and went on a crime spree ultimately leading to their demise.
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Old 04-20-2013, 11:31 AM   #186
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But they were set up.
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Old 04-20-2013, 12:36 PM   #187
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really?

Because they could have pre-planned a flight out of the country before anyone knew who they were...
Yeah, that was dumb.

Or even if they said to themselves "You know, air travel might be restricted after a bombing..." they could have at least staged a couple of fully-fueled cars at various locations, ready to drive out of town.

Robbing a convenience store, shooting a cop, and carjacking someone aren't exactly the best ways to maintain a low profile when you are the subject of a gigantic manhunt.


On the other hand, if you compare these two to your average "I'm going to walk into this school / theater / office building and start shooting everyone in sight" type of mass-murderer, they appear to have at least acknowledged the concept that people would be coming after them, and planned their supplies accordingly.
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Old 04-20-2013, 12:42 PM   #188
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I think they wanted to do more damage. That is why they didn't run. I'm pretty sure they knew they at least were not going to make it out free.
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Old 04-20-2013, 02:47 PM   #189
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It was a radicalized muslim and his Obama-loving pothead younger brother who idolized him. They sounded reasonably intelligent, and yet probably did not see a bright future.
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Old 04-20-2013, 03:09 PM   #190
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probably did not see a bright future.
Well, I suspect that whatshisname probably does not see a bright future now. I have no idea how skinny, white bombers who blow up civilians are treated by their fellow inmates, but I expect that they're probably in the same general neck of the woods as child molesters in the prison hierarchy.
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Old 04-20-2013, 03:12 PM   #191
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Well, I suspect that whatshisname probably does not see a bright future now. I have no idea how skinny, white bombers who blow up civilians are treated by their fellow inmates, but I expect that they're probably in the same general neck of the woods as child molesters in the prison hierarchy.
...or you could be part of the Weather Underground and go on to be a college professor...

Tale of two terrorists - NYPOST.com
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Old 04-20-2013, 03:21 PM   #192
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"Islam is the predominant religion in Chechnya. Chechens are overwhelmingly adherents to Sunni Islam,[40] the country having converted to Islam between the 16th and the 19th centuries." - Wikipedia

Hate when stereotypes are true.
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Old 04-20-2013, 03:31 PM   #193
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No, they make it easier to profile...
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Old 04-20-2013, 03:57 PM   #194
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No, they make it easier to profile...
You know who really profiles....? Anything with eyes. Natural selection, fight or flight, predator or prey--all these happen in nature and are instinctual to all animals.

Humans are clearly a higher form of animal and can better discern harm, despite the "warning signs" of people who may look or act differently than you.
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Old 04-20-2013, 04:32 PM   #195
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How is this for profiling...

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Old 04-20-2013, 06:39 PM   #196
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How is this for profiling...

If that were true there would be no con artists...
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Old 04-20-2013, 06:41 PM   #197
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If that were true there would be no con artists...
Or perhaps they are part of the 5%. However, I have not actually examined the studies that claim this result so I do not know their methods. I just thought it played nicely off of what cordy said.
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Old 04-21-2013, 10:44 AM   #198
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Amazing New Details from the Chase for the Boston Bombers | The Weekly Standard

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The police chief, Edward Deveau, describes how cops nearly apprehended the older suspect, and were placing handcuffs on him in the middle of the street Thursday night, when the younger suspect came at officers in a carjacked SUV. The cops were able "to dive out of the way," and the younger suspect then continued to drive directly over his brother and dragging him through the street. That's how the older suspect died, according to the police chief.
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Old 04-21-2013, 01:15 PM   #199
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Old 04-21-2013, 01:19 PM   #200
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That photo of those two guys where it looks like they are talking on their phones, where both of them have backpacks... is after the explosion.

Suspect 1 was also run over by suspect 2, which killed him, not the police.
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