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Old 04-23-2013, 04:23 PM   #281
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Yes I have read it. I would have to go look at the facts of the cases myself because the article is obviously trying to push a specific agenda and most of the solid facts that they lay out are not conclusive. It is mostly spun with overly simplified descriptions.

The article also points out how many cases the FBI solves without stings. I am sure there are some shady operations that are pushed through because someone wants a promotion but I am not sure one which ones specifically are that way.

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Not once did I complain about anything. I stated how a trial works. Just because you see flaws in the system as I described it and wanted to hear an alternative does not mean that I was complaining or even suggesting that change was needed.
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Old 04-23-2013, 04:40 PM   #282
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So, I create an image of a turbo wearing a Scumbag Steve hat as a joke, and I get taken seriously.
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Old 04-23-2013, 04:42 PM   #283
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So, I create an image of a turbo wearing a Scumbag Steve hat as a joke, and I get taken seriously.
I thought it was a joke but I decided to address it anyway.
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Old 04-23-2013, 04:43 PM   #284
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Maybe they were acutally the RICIN letter mailers and this is a huge cover-up to save form embarassment form catching the wrong guy?
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Old 04-23-2013, 04:43 PM   #285
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Are there spectator cellphone photos and vids of the perps that are clearer than the first "these are the perps" surveillance photo of them released by the FBI?
File this under "don't let a crisis go to waste". If there were better photos of the perps taken with cellphone cameras, someone in the FBI got the bright idea of publishing the surveillance camera photo so the public will ask for more.
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Old 04-23-2013, 04:52 PM   #286
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Speak of: In the survellance video of them walking around the corner, in the first shot the dude in the brown sweatshirt is no blurred, he can be seen putting his hand to his ear just after they walk by. In the second angle, he is blurred but you can see this happen again. He clearly sees the two brothers walk by then appears to put his hand to his left ear and possible radioing something in or putting in an earbud microphone thingy.



There also seems to be an edit at 14:37:46, just as the old lady looks at him, like: I know you're a cop!

pretty sure this proves I'm right and Xenu is god.
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Old 04-23-2013, 05:01 PM   #287
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Not enough resources to convict R. Kelly, Robert Blake, Lorena Bobbitt, Casey Anthony, Amanda Knox*, Andrea Yates or OJ Simpson apparently.
Most (all?) of these were not enemies of the gov't, they did crimes against individuals. In contrast, look at how the gov't pursued the liberty dollar guy, Anon Swartz, and tax evaders.
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Old 04-23-2013, 05:06 PM   #288
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I have found the unmarked black truck that is in some of the pictures.



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Old 04-23-2013, 05:10 PM   #289
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Originally Posted by JasonC SBB View Post
Most (all?) of these were not enemies of the gov't, they did crimes against individuals. In contrast, look at how the gov't pursued the liberty dollar guy, Anon Swartz, and tax evaders.
Aaron Swartz was charged with illegally downloading and distributing documents from JSTOR, a private corporation. Hardly an "enemy of the government."


Bernard von NotHaus (Liberty Dollar Guy) actually violated the US constitution, which enumerates to Congress alone the power "To coin Money, regulate the Value thereof, and of foreign Coin, and fix the Standard of Weights and Measures" (Article 1, section 8.)


I'm not sure who "tax evaders" is. Is it the same guy as "murderers"?
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Old 04-23-2013, 05:35 PM   #290
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Bernard von NotHaus (Liberty Dollar Guy) actually violated the US constitution, which enumerates to Congress alone the power "To coin Money, regulate the Value thereof, and of foreign Coin, and fix the Standard of Weights and Measures" (Article 1, section 8.)
Hmm. Does section 8 claim that Congress alone has that power?

Article 10 specifically forbids states from coining money, but I'm failing to find any constitutional principle against private individuals coining unique money.

The closest I can find is Federalist Paper No. 44 which further explains that the purpose of prohibiting states from coining or regulating money is to avoid the confusion and opportunity for fraud that would exist if there were more than one legal tender. So, one could reasonably extend that argument to include a prohibition against individuals coining their own money...but it's not expressly prohibited in the Constitution, so far as I can tell.

Even the relevant US Code that he was charged with violating isn't really an accurate description of his actions:

Quote:
Originally Posted by 18 USC § 485
Whoever falsely makes, forges, or counterfeits any coin or bar in resemblance or similitude of any coin of a denomination higher than 5 cents or any gold or silver bar coined or stamped at any mint or assay office of the United States, or in resemblance or similitude of any foreign gold or silver coin current in the United States or in actual use and circulation as money within the United States; or

Whoever passes, utters, publishes, sells, possesses, or brings into the United States any false, forged, or counterfeit coin or bar, knowing the same to be false, forged, or counterfeit, with intent to defraud any body politic or corporate, or any person, or attempts the commission of any offense described in this paragraph—

Shall be fined under this title or imprisoned not more than fifteen years, or both.
Doesn't really fit the "crime" -- he wasn't counterfeiting US money. The Liberty Dollars had no particular resemblance to US money (in fact, it'd be easier to confuse it with various foreign currencies than with US dollars).
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Old 04-23-2013, 05:49 PM   #291
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Hmm. Does section 8 claim that Congress alone has that power?

Article 10 specifically forbids states from coining money, but I'm failing to find any constitutional principle against private individuals coining unique money.
The Enumerated Powers are a subject of frequent debate.

Most of us are familiar with the Tenth Amendment, which reads:
The powers not delegated to the United States by the Constitution, nor prohibited by it to the States, are reserved to the States respectively, or to the people.
Generally, the Courts have interpreted this rule as having an implied corollary, that those powers which are specifically delegated to the Congress or to the States are understood not to be available to the people.

For instance, you and I do not have the authority to conduct trials, or to impose a tax upon our neighbor.

Since Congress has the authority to coin money and regulate the value thereof, they also have the right to defend against other domestic currencies- this would fall under "regulating the value thereof."
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Old 04-23-2013, 05:58 PM   #292
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Over 500 shots fired. 19 year old suspect hit 4 times.

"Nobody needs more than 10 rounds"
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Old 04-23-2013, 06:03 PM   #293
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Generally, the Courts have interpreted this rule as having an implied corollary, that those powers which are specifically delegated to the Congress or to the States are understood not to be available to the people.

[...]

Since Congress has the authority to coin money and regulate the value thereof, they also have the right to defend against other domestic currencies- this would fall under "regulating the value thereof."
I'd say that's an accurate description of the common interpretation.
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Old 04-24-2013, 09:19 AM   #294
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Did you guys look at this yet?

OnHand — Pictures of Tsarneav Brothers Shootout In Watertown, MA

this dude took pictures of the shoot-out from his house.

Now my questions of concern:

****, dude took down teh pictures. What a ----. now i have EVEN MORE QUESTIONS.

Ill find them elsewhere hold on.
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Old 04-24-2013, 09:54 AM   #295
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So last night in my forensics class the Prof. was asked about the shootout and he said that almost all of the rounds fired were blanks because they were trying to scare him out to surrender. I have no idea if this is true and I was fairly skeptical because I am pretty sure I have seen a photo where there are quite a few bullet holes in the boat. He claimed that the boat was never hit with a live round. Can anyone verify that with a picture?

Basically he is claiming that all of the bomber's gunshot wounds were inflicted before he was in the boat.
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Old 04-24-2013, 09:59 AM   #296
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Originally Posted by JasonC SBB View Post
Ryan,

Have you read this?:
Rolling Stone: How FBI Entrapment Is Inventing 'Terrorists' - and Letting Bad Guys Off the Hook

The bastards "create" their own terror plots, then "bust" them, in order to justify the budget and existence of their anti-terrorism unit.

What if the bombing were an FBI entrapment operation gone awry?
What if the dipshits broke off contact from the informant that egged them on initially, and went ahead and did it?

Maybe someone had an inkling something might go down so they had bomb-sniffing dogs out, but so as not to worry the public, were told to say "it's an exercise".

If the above were true, the FBI would look really, really bad, and it would be in the FBi individuals' interest to cover it all up. Cover-ups can and do happen, and sometimes someone talks only years later.
No way a government entity would screw something up so horribly and avoid and hide it until directly confronted with undeniable evidence. (Fast and Furious anyone?)
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Old 04-24-2013, 10:08 AM   #297
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okay I found the pics, now my questions. Please read through his post without pics though.

He goes as far as saying his was using his Iphone 5 to take the pics, but why not a movie? If there was a gun battle in front of my house I would have taken movies, and I wouldn't have mentioned that I own a Samsung Galaxy Nexus, not the new one, but the orginial.

okay, so this dude runs upstairs and starts snapping pics of the shootout:



Why did the brothers decide, when driving seperately in two different stolen cars, that this would be a great place to make a final stand? how did the coordinate this? News reports show they only had stolen phones, one being from the own of that black SUV.

Anyways, he goes on to describe how they pull out a pressure cooker bomb, and "The use of this explosive created an enormous cloud of smoke that covered the entire street. While the street was still cloudy with smoke one of the brothers started running down the street towards the officers, while still engaging them in gunshots. "

Where are the pictures of this? You're witnessing a ******* shootout in your street and you're not taking pictures of the bomb and dude running at police? I took 132 pictures in my backyard yesterday, no joke. 132 pictures of two or three birds and squirrels in my back ******* yard.



So here is supsect #2 back in the black SUV. You can see him traveling "60-70 mph" and about to drag his brother "30 feet" and break through a barracade.

Problem in what this witness describes aboslutely doesn't jive with FBI reports:

Quote:
"The black SUV proceeded to accelerate towards the officers and drove in between the two cars at the top of the picture. The SUV side swiped both cars taking out doors and windows and ultimately broke through the vehicle barricade and continued driving west on Laurel St. This was the last I saw of the black SUV."
I'm sorry, but don't you think if you were able to see doors being ripped off cars, that you'd notice if the brother that got aphrended was dragged 30 feet? that means he would have been dragged past the barracade, because they are maybe 10 feet away. And dont you think he would have described it in his story?



He went as far as circling the brother, in red, after the fact before posting. but doesn't mention him getting run over.

suspect #2 could not have travelled as fast as reported in the short distance from police. why would he even bother to do a K-turn and then barrell down his brother and smash through police cars? why not drive off in the direction teh car was already facing?
why would suspect #1 charge at police anyways? I cant imagine, as crazy as they might be, in the middle of a firefight, theyd be like: hey, you go run at them, and ill turn this car around and run you over! okay, jihad!

Who was the naked man then arrested on the scene? was that suspect #1? how did he ultimately die then? Did police do it after the fact? Police said it was the victim of the carjacking, but the victim of the carjacking escaped when they stopped to go buy gas and redbull. Was this the victim of the green bmw carjacking? If so, why has he not been identifed yet and why is no one talking about him? He looks EXACTLY like suspect #1. Could police be making **** up here and then murdered #1 so he couldn't expose the truth? Is that why #2 ended up with a wound to the throat and hands which left him unable to talk, and maybe the intent to not be able to write as well?

anyways, back to the pics.



after the incident, he shows investigators examining the stolen car, and you can see the bomb blast on the pavement. He mentions this in his post. But there's no blood stain on the ground where suspect #1 was run over and dragged. No mention of it. Isn't that odd? The medical exmainer said there's no evidence of being hit by a car and dragged, but his body was shot full of his, and had wounds consistent of an explosion and burns. If he tried to blow himself up on police, don tyou thin the witness and police would have said he exploded himself?


more later.
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Old 04-24-2013, 10:19 AM   #298
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You bring up some pretty interesting points. I do have couple things to add. Eyewitness testimony is very unreliable so most of this guy's claims that are not supported with pictures should be taken with a grain of salt (i.e. the speed of the car). The brother could have sustained explosive wounds from shrapnel from one of the bombs they were throwing. This might have been the reason he charged police in the first place. He could have realized he was probably dead anyway and decided to go out with a bang. The little brother may have turned the car around in an attempt to run down police and go out in a blaze of glory but at some point during his charge he could have changed his mind and decided to just run the barricade. There was a lot of adrenaline and these two were not formally trained for these types of situations so I highly doubt their actions were well thought out.

This is all just speculation of course but why not continue the conversation.
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Old 04-24-2013, 10:23 AM   #299
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So last night in my forensics class the Prof. was asked about the shootout and he said that almost all of the rounds fired were blanks because they were trying to scare him out to surrender. I have no idea if this is true and I was fairly skeptical because I am pretty sure I have seen a photo where there are quite a few bullet holes in the boat. He claimed that the boat was never hit with a live round. Can anyone verify that with a picture?

Basically he is claiming that all of the bomber's gunshot wounds were inflicted before he was in the boat.
There's like 30 bullet holes in the boat, that doesn't make sense. The suspect apparent has gunshot wounds to the legs, hands, and throat. there was blood on the outside of the boat AFTER he was captured.


Next day:


The homeowner said he only found the suspcet becuase he was really worried about his boat during lockdown and needed to go check out it--twice--he opened up the hatch on the cover and saw blood pools inside, then the body. he then called police. I see no blood inside, only outside.

Police say after they surrounded the boat at around 7:30 p.m., the suspect peaked through the hatch and unloaded fire at them, and about 50 rounds were returned. he lay motionless in the boat for about two more hour until he finally got up and climbed out on his own accord. there's obviously police video/audio of what transpired here that won't get released.

Had he shot himself in the mouth, it's possible it was that stain on the boat you now see, but the shot would have been recorded by the hundereds of new reporters on site, and would have been reported.

lots of holes here.


After shootout, before surrender:






surrendering, after shootout, after he "shot himself in the mouth, legs, hands":

Attached Thumbnails
Folks be all blowed up in Boston...-boston-bomber-boat-hiding-02.jpg   Folks be all blowed up in Boston...-bostonboat.jpg   Folks be all blowed up in Boston...-manhunt-boston-marathon-bombing-suspects-watertown.jpg  

Last edited by Braineack; 04-24-2013 at 10:36 AM.
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Old 04-24-2013, 10:28 AM   #300
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Yeah I thought I had seen bullet holes. I am pretty sure no one claimed all of the wounds were self inflicted, just the one to his throat, the rest were supposedly inflicted during the firefight which is why he was bleeding out in the boat.

Last night my Prof. gave me the impression that he is not directly involved in the case or he is deliberately not giving the facts he knows. I do know that he can't talk about certain things but why even talk about it at all if you are just going to spread misinformation. I almost called him on the bullet holes but I am pretty sure he would have just shut me down and made me look like an idiot so I just let it slide.
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