K series Miata swap - Page 39 - Miata Turbo Forum - Boost cars, acquire cats.

Welcome to Miataturbo.net   Members
 


Engine Performance This section is for discussion on all engine building related questions.
Sponsored by:
Sponsored by:

Reply
 
 
 
LinkBack Thread Tools Search this Thread
Old 12-19-2014, 10:03 AM   #761
Junior Member
 
Join Date: Jun 2014
Posts: 113
Total Cats: 2
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by ctdrftna View Post
What year car are you doing the swap in?
2000 NB1
I believe you wrote on my engine build thread once or twice.
kmvguy is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 12-19-2014, 10:37 AM   #762
Junior Member
 
Join Date: Nov 2006
Posts: 283
Total Cats: 149
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by kmvguy View Post
seems like a lot of people doing k swap are here.
I'm another one working on the swap.
This swap is not cheap though, I'm over $10k but haven't even started on the actual swap nor ordered the k miata header yet.
To make it fair, I'm also rebuilding my engine, so good amount went in there as well.
You have a lot of $$$ parts in that motor. And time. Not that there's anything wrong with that, as it's clear you enjoy the process. And likely the result.

It's why I keep trying to steer people to the easy button approach first (stock TSX K24A2, maybe with drop-in cams and 50 VTC).
AndyHollis is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 12-19-2014, 11:34 AM   #763
Senior Member
iTrader: (2)
 
Join Date: Oct 2011
Location: SE NM
Posts: 1,460
Total Cats: 48
Default

I found a K24/20 build brand new two hours from me from Blueprint Racing for $2500. Is it worth that price?

What's up man just way easier to txt compression is 10/5/1 eagle rods acl bearings Weisco pistons cometic head gasket blox valves and dual valve springs titanium retainers ferrera valve seals RBC cams skunks 2 chain tensioner blueprint top oiler for head blueprint oil pump prb type s Rsx head k24a4 block with balanced and polished k24a2 Tsx crank no intake manifold and no wire harness

That wall of text was the seller in a text to my phone. Does it sound like a deal? He built it with the intention of turboing it, but the 10.5:1 compression is the same as a stock K24A2, so it should run on 91 just fine.
Chilicharger665 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 12-19-2014, 12:00 PM   #764
Senior Member
iTrader: (2)
 
Join Date: Oct 2011
Location: SE NM
Posts: 1,460
Total Cats: 48
Default

Hey Andy, what intake manifold set-up are you going with?
Chilicharger665 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 12-19-2014, 03:34 PM   #765
Junior Member
 
Join Date: Jun 2014
Posts: 113
Total Cats: 2
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Chilicharger665 View Post
I found a K24/20 build brand new two hours from me from Blueprint Racing for $2500. Is it worth that price?

What's up man just way easier to txt compression is 10/5/1 eagle rods acl bearings Weisco pistons cometic head gasket blox valves and dual valve springs titanium retainers ferrera valve seals RBC cams skunks 2 chain tensioner blueprint top oiler for head blueprint oil pump prb type s Rsx head k24a4 block with balanced and polished k24a2 Tsx crank no intake manifold and no wire harness

That wall of text was the seller in a text to my phone. Does it sound like a deal? He built it with the intention of turboing it, but the 10.5:1 compression is the same as a stock K24A2, so it should run on 91 just fine.
As new in 0 miles on this motor, correct?
Price wise, it's pretty good deal.
Ask him about piston to wall clearance, he or machine shop will know what spec they used. I've seen couple of motors fail do to lack of clearance.

It has upgraded valvetrain but using stock RSX Type S cams. If you stay NA, this might need upgrade. K series cams are stupid expensive. Be ready to pay average of 800 for good set of cams.

Has Accord block and TSX crank, on top of that using ACL bearings. I hope he checked bearing/journal clearance on the block. Honda has codes to match correct bearing sizes for their crank and block. I believe ACL bearings only come in set sizes and not available for mix match. Unlike miata forks, a lot of people over at k20a.org uses Honda bearings over ACL.

EDIT: Ask if they offer warranty on that motor, if so it would be nice pickup.

Last edited by kmvguy; 12-19-2014 at 03:55 PM.
kmvguy is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 12-19-2014, 06:15 PM   #766
Junior Member
 
Join Date: Nov 2006
Posts: 283
Total Cats: 149
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Chilicharger665 View Post
I found a K24/20 build brand new two hours from me from Blueprint Racing for $2500. Is it worth that price?

What's up man just way easier to txt compression is 10/5/1 eagle rods acl bearings Weisco pistons cometic head gasket blox valves and dual valve springs titanium retainers ferrera valve seals RBC cams skunks 2 chain tensioner blueprint top oiler for head blueprint oil pump prb type s Rsx head k24a4 block with balanced and polished k24a2 Tsx crank no intake manifold and no wire harness

That wall of text was the seller in a text to my phone. Does it sound like a deal? He built it with the intention of turboing it, but the 10.5:1 compression is the same as a stock K24A2, so it should run on 91 just fine.
Not a great deal.

Blox is Chinese low-budget copy-cat stuff. Run away from that. For valves, you want either OE, Ferrea, or Supertech (or equivalent). Same with valve springs (or Kelford if you use their cams).

Not sure why anybody would build a 10.5 compression motor. That's stock. You either go down for boost or up for "free" power. 11.5 is the minimum I'd run for a street motor on premium pump gas, if I was building a motor from scratch. 12.5 is the norm.

RBC are stock K20Z3 Civic Si cams...too small for a built K24.

Honestly, it sounds almost like he put it together from stuff laying around the shop taken off other dead builds.

That said, Blueprint has been around the K scene a long time and know what they are doing. Thus, my confusion on the specs here.

Last edited by AndyHollis; 12-19-2014 at 06:38 PM.
AndyHollis is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 12-19-2014, 06:22 PM   #767
Junior Member
 
Join Date: Nov 2006
Posts: 283
Total Cats: 149
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by kmvguy View Post
Has Accord block and TSX crank, on top of that using ACL bearings. I hope he checked bearing/journal clearance on the block. Honda has codes to match correct bearing sizes for their crank and block. I believe ACL bearings only come in set sizes and not available for mix match. Unlike miata forks, a lot of people over at k20a.org uses Honda bearings over ACL.
I'm going to disagree with this.

Honda uses the table to blueprint stock motor clearances. The difference between the bearing sizes is in the 1/10,000 range. The service range (new to worn out) is much larger than that. Basically, they use this to get 100K warranty-free mileage and 200K "normal" mileage out of a motor.

Alll aftermarket bearings come in "green" only. That's ACL race bearings, Clevite, and even the OEM stuff that you get through places like WorldPak. The green bearings are right in the middle of the chart. I've used them in every motor I've built (not just K's, but also D-series). Pro engine builders also use ACL, like the two shortblocks that 4Piston built for me.

You still need to check the clearance with the greens, but it is extremely rare that anything has worn outside of the service range.
AndyHollis is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 12-19-2014, 06:34 PM   #768
Junior Member
 
Join Date: Nov 2006
Posts: 283
Total Cats: 149
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Chilicharger665 View Post
Hey Andy, what intake manifold set-up are you going with?
Still in the works.

Been talking to Hayward (Google it) about one of his center feed road race manifolds, but the better one is physically too big. It's also $1300.

David is working on a couple of other possibilities that will deliver performance above what the S2000 is capable of. More along the lines of what the RRC can do. Maybe one of those will work out.

For start-up and initial testing, I'm using an RDX center-feed with an 03 Accord TB. It's kinda cute-looking.

Attached Thumbnails
K series Miata swap-rwc.jpg  
AndyHollis is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 12-19-2014, 07:34 PM   #769
Cpt. Slow
iTrader: (25)
 
curly's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2005
Location: Oregon City, OR
Posts: 12,107
Total Cats: 518
Default

Going rate seems to be $250 for a "00 01 02 03 04 05 AP1 Honda S2000" (quoted from ebay listing) intake manifold with injectors, fuel rail, throttle body, and TPS. Doesn't seem too bad.
curly is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 12-19-2014, 08:52 PM   #770
Senior Member
iTrader: (2)
 
Join Date: Oct 2011
Location: SE NM
Posts: 1,460
Total Cats: 48
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by AndyHollis View Post
Still in the works.

Been talking to Hayward (Google it) about one of his center feed road race manifolds, but the better one is physically too big. It's also $1300.

David is working on a couple of other possibilities that will deliver performance above what the S2000 is capable of. More along the lines of what the RRC can do. Maybe one of those will work out.

For start-up and initial testing, I'm using an RDX center-feed with an 03 Accord TB. It's kinda cute-looking.
Why are you starting with the RDX center-feed? Did you have it laying around, or did you not want to buy the S2000 adapter?
Chilicharger665 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 12-19-2014, 09:17 PM   #771
Supporting Vendor
 
KMiata's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2012
Posts: 444
Total Cats: 145
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by curly View Post
Going rate seems to be $250 for a "00 01 02 03 04 05 AP1 Honda S2000" (quoted from ebay listing) intake manifold with injectors, fuel rail, throttle body, and TPS. Doesn't seem too bad.
Exactly what I paid for mine 2 years ago when we started this silly project.

Its a great budget option. Our dyno testing is showing that it is most suitable for stock engines. As Andy mentioned, I'm working on a couple other options behind the scenes that will make more power, but that is still a little down the road.

Another bonus is with the S2000 setup, you get to use the S2000 TPS (same as B, H, F, D series sensors). The K TPS is terrible. Constantly breaking, especially in a road racing environment, and Honda doesn't sell them separately, and the aftermarket ones break even easier.
KMiata is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 12-19-2014, 11:43 PM   #772
Junior Member
 
Join Date: Nov 2006
Posts: 283
Total Cats: 149
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Chilicharger665 View Post
Why are you starting with the RDX center-feed? Did you have it laying around, or did you not want to buy the S2000 adapter?
Got it cheap. Came with a set of RDX injectors, which are worth what I paid for just the manifold. And I was simply curious, having never seen one in the flesh before.

The S2000 setup would require me to hack the harness, and since it isn't my final solution, that was not in the cards.

I also was able to make the stock TSX "RBB" manifold fit with the Accord TB, but it's really close to the firewall where the heater core holes are. But if you arent running heat, it would work.

You could say I am a bit of an automotive packrat...

Quote:
Originally Posted by K Miata View Post

Another bonus is with the S2000 setup, you get to use the S2000 TPS (same as B, H, F, D series sensors). The K TPS is terrible. Constantly breaking, especially in a road racing environment, and Honda doesn't sell them separately, and the aftermarket ones break even easier.
BTDT.

I went through three of them in one day at VIR last summer, after having "upgraded" to stiffer motor mounts. The good news is that K-Tuned now has a viable solution in their new Hall effect TPS sensor. No wires inside or pot sliders to wear out or vibrate loose. I've had no issues since switching over. And K-Tuned was awesome in warrantying the two broken V1 design to the new Hall effect at no charge,
AndyHollis is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 12-20-2014, 12:02 AM   #773
Junior Member
 
Join Date: Jun 2014
Posts: 113
Total Cats: 2
Default

This is pretty interesting.
I picked up used RDX Centerfeed manifold as well about a month ago.

These runners are tiny though, and also ports are much smaller than K20A2 head.
That's why I decided to settle with s2000 manifold over this one.

Attached Thumbnails
K series Miata swap-photodec19195716.jpg  
kmvguy is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 12-20-2014, 12:12 AM   #774
Junior Member
 
Join Date: Jun 2014
Posts: 113
Total Cats: 2
Default

Some more shot of s2k vs rdx manifold


rdx port w k20 gasket


s2k port w k20 gasket
Attached Thumbnails
K series Miata swap-photodec19200610.jpg   K series Miata swap-photodec19200811.jpg   K series Miata swap-photodec19200820.jpg  
kmvguy is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 12-20-2014, 12:23 AM   #775
Junior Member
 
Join Date: Jun 2014
Posts: 113
Total Cats: 2
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by AndyHollis View Post
I'm going to disagree with this.

You still need to check the clearance with the greens, but it is extremely rare that anything has worn outside of the service range.
Didn't know about that, I guess I might have got away with ACL too.
Oh well, sometimes gotta pay to have some lessons learned.
kmvguy is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 12-20-2014, 12:17 PM   #776
Supporting Vendor
 
KMiata's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2012
Posts: 444
Total Cats: 145
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by AndyHollis View Post
I went through three of them in one day at VIR last summer, after having "upgraded" to stiffer motor mounts. The good news is that K-Tuned now has a viable solution in their new Hall effect TPS sensor. No wires inside or pot sliders to wear out or vibrate loose. I've had no issues since switching over. And K-Tuned was awesome in warrantying the two broken V1 design to the new Hall effect at no charge,
I had the same experience. Sounds like the new K-Tuned one works great, but I'm already converted to run nearly free B series sensors.

One time I took a new K-Tuned one out of the package at a test and tune day, and it was completely done in less than 6 laps. I could barely limp the car into the paddock. But as you said, John and Mike were great and took care of it for me.
KMiata is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 12-21-2014, 04:58 PM   #777
Junior Member
 
Join Date: Jun 2014
Posts: 113
Total Cats: 2
Default

Started a new build thread for my Miata

K24/K20 Powered Mazonda Miata Build
kmvguy is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 12-29-2014, 12:31 PM   #778
Junior Member
 
Join Date: Nov 2006
Posts: 283
Total Cats: 149
Default

For those of you considering this swap but looking to cut costs, here's a couple new options that net you a reliable 200hp motor and save $2000-2500 by avoiding the purchase of the semi-custom header, custom 3" exhaust and various S2000 intake parts.

If you buy a used K24A2 TSX motor, you usually get the stock intake and exhaust manifolds. Guess what? You can actually use them.

My experiment with the RDX intake was a fail in that the hood would not close once the throttle body was installed. So I ditched that idea. But if you are willing to forgo a heater core, the stock TSX intake ("RBB") fits in there nicely. Fabbing a CAI gets a little interesting, but it is at least a decent stop-gap alternative while saving up for a different intake (we are currently waiting to see if David's newest idea works out).

Name:  7B99BA3F-D276-4FF1-96AF-3A2B60E9F9EF_zpshhqpffyt.jpg
Views: 69
Size:  182.8 KB

That's a cable-actuated throttle body off a 2003-2005 Accord (the TSX TB is DBW) that I got from a wrecking yard for $25. Plugs right into your wiring harness. A 45-degree elbow followed by a 90 should get the intake air path running level with the hood.

That then got me thinking about the exhaust. Yep, sure enough the TSX exhaust manifold will just barely fit. It required a little cutting of the flange and a couple light touches with the BFH, but it now sits right up against the engine bay frame sill. If I was going to actually run it, I'd grind down the sill extension a smidge to account for engine rock within the mounts. That mini-header terminates in a 3" pipe, which can then be routed down and around the back of the engine to hook up to any exhaust that ends where the stock one does. It's a little tight to one of the crossmember tubes, but still doable.

Name:  16A9DD1C-EF32-451C-8C3A-34AB65ADD942_zpszkeposl1.jpg
Views: 63
Size:  145.4 KB

Name:  D900B900-A1CF-4598-B09C-D8F9DC0D74E5_zpsvd1gn19b.jpg
Views: 63
Size:  192.5 KB


Those two things together get you a motor capable of 200hp at the wheels. Here's a dyno of a stock 06 TSX with CAI and tune at Church's optimistic DynaPak
Attached Thumbnails
K series Miata swap-dyno-06tsx-vs-cai-both-reflash.gif  
AndyHollis is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 12-29-2014, 12:45 PM   #779
Elite Member
iTrader: (1)
 
Join Date: May 2009
Location: Jacksonville, FL
Posts: 4,682
Total Cats: 216
Default

Thats pretty cool. I wonder if you could squeeze some sort of cowl induction setup in over there. Maybe run forward to an enclosed filter or airbox and then run a duct around the master cylinders to a hole in the firewall.

Attached Thumbnails
K series Miata swap-23247170003_large.jpg  
Full_Tilt_Boogie is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 12-29-2014, 12:47 PM   #780
Junior Member
iTrader: (1)
 
Join Date: Aug 2008
Location: Austin, TX
Posts: 239
Total Cats: 4
Default

Open up the firewall to get at the cowl air. You need to make sure you build a box around the intake itself to prevent the air from being forced into the rest of the engine bay. I've seen at least one or two of FM whipple charger setups that did something similar.

It looks like you could shorten the runners on the TSX exhaust to move it over a little as well. Although that would likely be harder to do since it would require welding the cut down runners back to the flange.
mcfandango is offline   Reply With Quote
 
 
Reply

Related Topics
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
NEW-Wiseco Piston, K1 Rods, Supertech Valves & Spring/Retainer, TB&C pedals Rudes333 Miata parts for sale/trade 17 11-05-2015 02:16 PM
3rd Time's a Charm...hopefully. zephyrusaurai Meet and Greet 2 09-28-2015 11:59 PM
Another Alternator thread ihiryu General Miata Chat 9 09-28-2015 11:22 AM
starting issue Johnny Tater Engine Performance 3 09-23-2015 07:10 PM
Foreign powered NB for NASA ST3 and/or E0 d k Race Prep 44 09-15-2015 11:59 AM


Tags
k series swap, k20, k24, vtec_yo

Thread Tools Search this Thread
Search this Thread:

Advanced Search

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are Off
Pingbacks are Off
Refbacks are Off



All times are GMT -4. The time now is 09:28 AM.