K series Miata swap - Page 35 - Miata Turbo Forum - Boost cars, acquire cats.

Welcome to Miataturbo.net   Members
 


Engine Performance This section is for discussion on all engine building related questions.
Sponsored by:
Sponsored by:

Reply
 
 
 
LinkBack Thread Tools Search this Thread
Old 10-31-2014, 10:58 AM   #681
Murderator
iTrader: (76)
 
18psi's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2008
Posts: 36,206
Total Cats: 2,587
Default

Yikes, that thing looks intense. I'm guessing uber long tubes for torque?
18psi is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10-31-2014, 11:11 AM   #682
Senior Member
iTrader: (1)
 
Join Date: Mar 2008
Location: Cromwell CT
Posts: 1,109
Total Cats: 48
Default

i wouldn't say they are uber long, theres not much room between the block and frame rails, so you need to make your runner lengths and collect them up high, the down pipe brings the exhaust under the car to the driver side.
ctdrftna is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10-31-2014, 11:15 AM   #683
Senior Member
iTrader: (1)
 
Join Date: Mar 2008
Location: Cromwell CT
Posts: 1,109
Total Cats: 48
Default

i went with the big tube version so I'm not buying another header when i build the engine down the road. Eventually i will build it with 12.5:1 pistons, a 4piston racing cnc head and drag cartel 3.2 cams.

Im gonna put the motor in the car with a set of 60mm Kinsler ITBS, it should make some pretty damn good power and torque for a N/A street car.
ctdrftna is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 11-06-2014, 10:35 PM   #684
Supporting Vendor
 
KMiata's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2012
Posts: 444
Total Cats: 145
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by ctdrftna View Post
i went with the big tube version so I'm not buying another header when i build the engine down the road. Eventually i will build it with 12.5:1 pistons, a 4piston racing cnc head and drag cartel 3.2 cams.

Im gonna put the motor in the car with a set of 60mm Kinsler ITBS, it should make some pretty damn good power and torque for a N/A street car.
Can't wait to see your car Josh. Our customers are putting together some pretty wild builds.

What are your power goals? Staying with an 87x99 motor? With the Kinslers I'm guessing 300-330whp?
KMiata is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 11-06-2014, 10:47 PM   #685
Senior Member
iTrader: (1)
 
Join Date: Mar 2008
Location: Cromwell CT
Posts: 1,109
Total Cats: 48
Default

87.5 or 88 x 99. probably super tech pistons. K1 lightweight I-beam rods.

Would you be able to take a picture of a 12" scale (ruler) off the side of the head, inline to the intake port angle? I would like to visualize the runner length of the ITBS. I would like to try and make a 12" runner work, to utilize 2nd order harmonics at 8200-8500.

Im not setting any goals other than i want a broad power band with good torque. If i loose some up top to keep some grunt in the middle I'm fine with that. I don't see 280whp/230 wtq being out of the question.
ctdrftna is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 11-14-2014, 11:01 PM   #686
Junior Member
 
Join Date: Nov 2006
Posts: 284
Total Cats: 149
Default

Greetings gents,

I haven't frequented this board often in the past, but will likely do so now as it's the best place (IMO) to discuss tracking Miatas.

I was part of the original group buy on the K-Miata kit. I have lots of experience with the K-series in my CRX track car and will be putting that to good use during this swap. In fact, there are currently four working motors in my garage (three built, one stock). And as of the past weekend, there is once again a Miata in the driveway. Black 2000 PEP. Once I find a place to store the CRX for a bit, the build will commence.

Haven't decided yet where to put the primary build thread (I hang out on a variety of forums), but for sure some level of updates will come here.

The current plan is to put a bone-stock TSX motor in the Miata first to solve packaging/logistics issues, then do the suspension, cage the car, and finally put one of the built motors in. We are working with various partners to accomplish much of this (including some guy out west called Emilio ), and the car will likely see exposure in GRM, since I write for them. In fact, one goal is to display a running vehicle at the GRM tent at the Rolex 24 in Daytona this winter.

Here's a teaser on what the power band on a built K24 looks like:



That's an 87x99 K24, stock K20A2 head, 13:1 compression, moderate cams and E85. Motor can also run on 100 race gas or be detuned slightly to run on pump 93 (that's what we did for the One Lap of America last year). I have another lump that's sleeved to 89.5 bore, ported head, and slightly bigger cams. It makes 300.

I picked up a 6-spd trans and 3.9 Torsen rear end to put behind it. That gives me very similar gearing to what I run in the CRX. Eventually an OSG will go in there to replace the Torsen.
Attached Thumbnails
K series Miata swap-stout-2-27-14_zps8ebfda07.jpeg  
AndyHollis is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 11-14-2014, 11:06 PM   #687
Senior Member
iTrader: (1)
 
Join Date: Jul 2012
Location: durham NC
Posts: 767
Total Cats: 115
Default

I saw something on facebook about you doing a k24 miata for one lap and got really excited. It's awesome to see you posting about it here.
asmasm is online now   Reply With Quote
Old 11-14-2014, 11:16 PM   #688
Junior Member
 
Join Date: Nov 2006
Posts: 284
Total Cats: 149
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by ctdrftna View Post
87.5 or 88 x 99. probably super tech pistons. K1 lightweight I-beam rods.
I strongly suggest you do NOT go 88mm bore on stock sleeves. Here's what happens when you track that for six months:



And if you sleeve it, might as well go to 89.5 or 90.

As for pistons, Supertechs are nice, but I prefer Wisecos. While the Supertechs are 4032 alloy which should expand less than 2816 used by the Wiseco, the former is spec'd at .003 piston-to-wall where the Wiseco is .0025". Something about the Wiseco design keeps expansion down, according to a well-known K-series engine builder.

My 88x99 Supertech motor (pictured above), rattled more on cold start than do either of my current Wiseco-piston motors. Cast OE pistons, of course, run at less than .001 clearance and make zero noise. RS Machine even makes cast pistons in 12:1, so that's an option. But I prefer the stronger forged parts to support higher revs (once you beef up the rods).

In short, Wiseco 12.5 shelf pistons on Manley H-beam rods is a pretty standard K-series combo that will rev to 9000 in a 99mm stroke motor, though limiting to 8500 or less is advised for extended track use.
Attached Thumbnails
K series Miata swap-cracked_zpsd5df5f3b.jpg  

Last edited by AndyHollis; 11-14-2014 at 11:37 PM.
AndyHollis is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 11-14-2014, 11:48 PM   #689
Miotta FTW!
iTrader: (24)
 
Splitime's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2006
Location: Chicagoland, IL
Posts: 4,295
Total Cats: 26
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by AndyHollis View Post
I strongly suggest you do NOT go 88mm bore on stock sleeves. Here's what happens when you track that for six months:
In case you guys don't recognize this guy... look up the name and OneLap. He's a good reference check for some of the thoughts for builds.
Splitime is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 11-15-2014, 12:51 AM   #690
Elite Member
iTrader: (4)
 
Join Date: Sep 2006
Location: Charlotte, NC
Posts: 3,054
Total Cats: 8
Default

Ahhh...sheeet Andy Hollis is on this board meow?

Best place to discuss tracking miatas?

What happened to turbos?

And Miatas?
Efini~FC3S is online now   Reply With Quote
Old 11-15-2014, 01:11 AM   #691
Elite Member
iTrader: (3)
 
Join Date: Mar 2008
Location: Granbury, TX
Posts: 6,010
Total Cats: 583
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by AndyHollis View Post
Once I find a place to store the CRX for a bit, the build will commence.
Happy to help you with that. I'll even exercise it at MSR-C for you. LOL. Neal B will vouch for me.
hornetball is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 11-15-2014, 06:18 AM   #692
Senior Member
iTrader: (1)
 
Join Date: Mar 2008
Location: Cromwell CT
Posts: 1,109
Total Cats: 48
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by AndyHollis View Post
I strongly suggest you do NOT go 88mm bore on stock sleeves. Here's what happens when you track that for six months:



And if you sleeve it, might as well go to 89.5 or 90.

As for pistons, Supertechs are nice, but I prefer Wisecos. While the Supertechs are 4032 alloy which should expand less than 2816 used by the Wiseco, the former is spec'd at .003 piston-to-wall where the Wiseco is .0025". Something about the Wiseco design keeps expansion down, according to a well-known K-series engine builder.

My 88x99 Supertech motor (pictured above), rattled more on cold start than do either of my current Wiseco-piston motors. Cast OE pistons, of course, run at less than .001 clearance and make zero noise. RS Machine even makes cast pistons in 12:1, so that's an option. But I prefer the stronger forged parts to support higher revs (once you beef up the rods).

In short, Wiseco 12.5 shelf pistons on Manley H-beam rods is a pretty standard K-series combo that will rev to 9000 in a 99mm stroke motor, though limiting to 8500 or less is advised for extended track use.



Im building it as a street motor, thats why i want the low expansion super tech pistons. Most likely i will stay with 87.5.
Your the 1st person i have seen post issues with the 88mm bore though, but thats cause most guys doing 88mm are drag racers.

Any way I'm not boring anything right now, my build is off to a slow start, until the car in my garage sells this project is just sitting collecting parts that i need.
ctdrftna is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 11-15-2014, 11:04 PM   #693
Supporting Vendor
 
KMiata's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2012
Posts: 444
Total Cats: 145
Default

Glad to see you here Andy. Very excited to see your car come together.
KMiata is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 11-16-2014, 01:18 AM   #694
Junior Member
iTrader: (1)
 
Join Date: Feb 2012
Posts: 213
Total Cats: 0
Default

Sweet, I'm suscribed to GRM, and loved reading about the underdog CRX in one lap.
I'm super jelly all you guys are doing bad-*** honda swaps.
etikoner is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 11-16-2014, 09:16 PM   #695
Supporting Vendor
 
KMiata's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2012
Posts: 444
Total Cats: 145
Default

So who else needs a K swap kit? Got a few more available for pre-order, scheduled to ship in December.
KMiata is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 11-16-2014, 09:34 PM   #696
Junior Member
iTrader: (2)
 
Join Date: Apr 2010
Location: albion, mi
Posts: 304
Total Cats: 17
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by K Miata View Post
So who else needs a K swap kit? Got a few more available for pre-order, scheduled to ship in December.
So....Damn.....tempting........

Edit, has there been any NA builds?
glade is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 11-16-2014, 09:49 PM   #697
Supporting Vendor
 
KMiata's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2012
Posts: 444
Total Cats: 145
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by glade View Post
So....Damn.....tempting........

Edit, has there been any NA builds?
Few NA builds in progress right now, but not necessarily on this forum. You'll start seeing a lot of these cars popping up early 2015.
KMiata is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 11-17-2014, 02:37 PM   #698
Senior Member
iTrader: (14)
 
Join Date: Jan 2007
Location: Murfreesboro,TN
Posts: 1,279
Total Cats: 53
Default

Very temping since I have to pull my VVT motor this winter....
Midtenn is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 11-19-2014, 12:57 AM   #699
Supporting Vendor
 
KMiata's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2012
Posts: 444
Total Cats: 145
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Midtenn View Post
Very temping since I have to pull my VVT motor this winter....
I have a feeling you will never look back to the VVT motor after doing this swap

Just email us if you have any questions!
KMiata is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 11-20-2014, 11:24 PM   #700
Junior Member
 
Join Date: Nov 2006
Posts: 284
Total Cats: 149
Default

here we go...

Main page: OneLapMiata.com

Why a Miata?

The One Lap CRX has had a very successful run, especially this past year where we topped 170 MPH at the Texas Mile, won our class and 4th Overall at the One Lap of America, and won the SMF national championship for SCCA autocrossing. Performance-wise, there isn't much more we can do with the car other than incremental improvements. The weak links are FWD, 65/35 weight distribution, and small wheel wells that limit our wheel/tire size.

Recently, David Calzada and Adam Jabaay from the Chicago area prototyped the swap of the same K24 we run in the CRX into the NA (90-97) and NB (99-03) chassis Miata. That early effort has evolved into a kit being offered for sale. See K Miata Home for details.

In addition to Hondas, we are very familiar with the Miata having run one successfully in SCCA autocross some years ago in the STS class. The all-aluminum Honda K24 weighs the same as the cast-iron block 1.8l Miata BP motor, so the swap does not mess up the amazing Miata handling. The Miata is the same curb weight as the CRX, but it is equally distributed front and rear (50/50) so it makes more efficient use of the tires. It's RWD, so more power gets put to the ground. The wheel wells are larger so we can fit bigger rubber. Best of all, the cars are raced all over the country every weekend in a variety of series and prep levels. So real racing parts are available off the shelf and do not need to be custom fabbed.

Our plan is as follows:

1) Do the basic swap using a bone-stock TSX K24A2. That will allow us to work through all of the logistical issues with the basic swap.

2) Install race suspension/brakes, and start dialing in the car on the track using our existing wheels/tires from the CRX (they fit).

3) Get safe: Cage the car, install a race seat, safety net, fire system, etc.

4) Install one of our 300hp race motors and better LSD.

5) Add aero.

6) Put a tag on it, take it to One Lap 2015...and kick butt.

In progress now.





Attached Thumbnails
K series Miata swap-trailered1_zpsf12f4d98.jpg   K series Miata swap-garage_zpsba4b3d4c.jpg   K series Miata swap-motor_pull_zps7492dabd.jpg  
AndyHollis is offline   Reply With Quote
 
 
Reply

Related Topics
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
NEW-Wiseco Piston, K1 Rods, Supertech Valves & Spring/Retainer, TB&C pedals Rudes333 Miata parts for sale/trade 17 11-05-2015 02:16 PM
3rd Time's a Charm...hopefully. zephyrusaurai Meet and Greet 2 09-28-2015 11:59 PM
Another Alternator thread ihiryu General Miata Chat 9 09-28-2015 11:22 AM
starting issue Johnny Tater Engine Performance 3 09-23-2015 07:10 PM
Foreign powered NB for NASA ST3 and/or E0 d k Race Prep 44 09-15-2015 11:59 AM


Tags
k series swap, k20, k24, vtec_yo

Thread Tools Search this Thread
Search this Thread:

Advanced Search

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are Off
Pingbacks are Off
Refbacks are Off



All times are GMT -4. The time now is 10:44 AM.