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Old 12-16-2014, 08:48 PM   #741
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Quote:
Originally Posted by AndyHollis View Post

From here, it starts getting more involved and expensive. You'll need more compression, and bigger cams with stiffer valve springs. For this approach, I like buying used Accord motors (K24A4 and K24A8) for about $300, and throwing away almost everything except the block and crank. Then add 12.5 Wiseco pistons at standard bore, and Manley rods. If the motor is in decent shape, the bearings will still be good and the bores straight. So it's a bolt-together affair. Find a used K20A2 head for about $300-450 and get a fresh valve job. Add those cams/springs and you have a 280hp motor that can reliably rev to 8500+. I just built one like that. No machining needed. FYI, the K20A2 head yields about 10-15hp over the K24A2 head with the gains starting at 6500rpm. Super reliable, super strong, runs on pump 93.
Thanks for posting.

What do you estimate the cost of building a k series engine using this approach? Anyone with experience with k series engines building please revise this list.

$300 k24 block
$400 k20a2 head
$150 s2000 intake manifold
$500 k24 12.5 Weisco pistons
$700 k24 Manly Rods
$720 Kelford 179-A Cams
$300 valve springs?

$3070 so far

Any recommend other items? Any ARP hardware required? New bearings? Price for all required gaskets and seals?
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Old 12-16-2014, 08:56 PM   #742
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rods will be more like $350-$400, you don't need the $700 turbo tough rods.
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Old 12-16-2014, 10:35 PM   #743
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Originally Posted by cyotani View Post
Thanks for posting.

What do you estimate the cost of building a k series engine using this approach? Anyone with experience with k series engines building please revise this list.

$300 k24 block
$400 k20a2 head
$150 s2000 intake manifold
$500 k24 12.5 Weisco pistons
$700 k24 Manly Rods
$720 Kelford 179-A Cams
$300 valve springs?

$3070 so far

Any recommend other items? Any ARP hardware required? New bearings? Price for all required gaskets and seals?
If you are going with 12.5 compression, use the Kelford 179-B, not the A. The B has a lot of overlap so the dynamic compression is lower than running that same piston with the A cam. On pump fuel, the A could result in some det issues at 12.5. Stock cams definitely will (BTDT). And the B makes more power anyway(i use it in most of my motors).

If you do want the 179-A, then you don't need upgraded valve springs. It uses the OE springs.

ARP head studs are advised with higher compression motors. ACL bearings, if you need new ones.

Lots of online Honda OE parts places out there to look up prices. HondaAcuraOnline.com is one I use a lot, though I usually order stuff through HPD (racer discount).
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Old 12-17-2014, 08:20 PM   #744
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Originally Posted by K Miata View Post
-Kpro is $700 (plus a $200 used ECU)
-Used K24A2 engines can be had for $1000-$1200 everywhere
-Although our header is a huge value at $1299, we will also have a budget header available in 2015

Estimated total build cost just depends on how fancy you want to get, and power goals.

Here is the real question – what is the estimated cost of any other Miata build that’s going to give you 230-240whp out of a OEM reliable engine, with zero overheating issues, with replacement engines available from junkyards across the country for dirt cheap?
I think you are taking my tone incorrectly. I REALLY, REALLY want to do this, but I am trying to see if I can budget this all together and realistically do it. I believe you that it will be the best track Miata set-up out there. I believe you that your parts are quality. I believe you when you say your Medusa header is a value, I really do. My problem is that I need to budget it. I am researching more and more each day, but perhaps I should clarify my constraints and ideas on the car.

-I cannot afford to rebuild an engine and all I can get is 91 octane anyways, so I will attempt to find a K24A2 ready to go and swap in the 50 degree VTC gear and some drop-in cams suggested by Andy.

-This car will be a full-interior car, but with a rollbar, door bars, and seats mounted to the floor. I will still have a stereo.

-I plan on XIDA's and I already have some 15x9's ready to go.

-Where are you guys finding $1200 K24A2's? I live in the middle of nowhere, so junkyards around here don't have anything but rusted out domestics and my ebay searches have only turned up $1500+

So considering my power goals involve a bolt-on K24A2, to get the engine in my car and running, what do you estimate the cost to be?

I appreciate everyone's responses to my previous posts, they helped me determine that I cannot afford to rebuild an engine and that I need to find a K24A2 from 06-08 ready to go.

What gearing is everyone planning on using? I currently have a 6 speed and a 3.9 rear. I have a 3.6 sitting on the shelf and there is a 4.3 for sale on the forum. What direction should I be going for that? I will be running either 205/50 or 225/45s.
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Old 12-17-2014, 08:32 PM   #745
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^listening very, very closely.
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Old 12-17-2014, 09:34 PM   #746
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Originally Posted by Chilicharger665 View Post
I think you are taking my tone incorrectly. I REALLY, REALLY want to do this, but I am trying to see if I can budget this all together and realistically do it. I believe you that it will be the best track Miata set-up out there. I believe you that your parts are quality. I believe you when you say your Medusa header is a value, I really do. My problem is that I need to budget it. I am researching more and more each day, but perhaps I should clarify my constraints and ideas on the car.


-Where are you guys finding $1200 K24A2's? I live in the middle of nowhere, so junkyards around here don't have anything but rusted out domestics and my ebay searches have only turned up $1500+

My problem is great I just put 8k in my car its faster... I just went up 2-3 classes. If you do TT or want to be the fastest kid on the block great but the car doesn't fit in anything but tt classes anymore And I'll just spend more money in brakes and tires. Honestly $8k will buy me another project car. not sure if/ when i'll go the Honda route. I love everything Honda I'm sure it will happen eventually but I'm in no hurry. I'd rather spend money on track time.

Other good thing is if you have an NB there's a good amount of money you can recoup by selling off parts and aftermarket parts. I could prob sell 3k worth of parts off my car. so 8k-3k = 5k at the end. 5k is a supercharger kit but I get to keep that NA potential.

There was a tsx engine on ebay in Oregon 2 days ago for $740 + 200-250 shipping. 130k miles. Maybe you need to look harder. Deals are out there search car-part, ebay, clist. search for TSX engine not k24a2
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Old 12-17-2014, 09:50 PM   #747
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Chilicharger665 View Post
-Where are you guys finding $1200 K24A2's? I live in the middle of nowhere, so junkyards around here don't have anything but rusted out domestics and my ebay searches have only turned up $1500+
I got an 06 K24A2 for $1,000 off Honda-tech. Guy was local and had it listed for $1200 so I threw him a $1000 offer. He said no and then 2 weeks later said yes.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Chilicharger665 View Post
What gearing is everyone planning on using? I currently have a 6 speed and a 3.9 rear. I have a 3.6 sitting on the shelf and there is a 4.3 for sale on the forum. What direction should I be going for that? I will be running either 205/50 or 225/45s.
I'm running a 6 speed and 4.1 rear for now. Not really planned, just what I have in the car.
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Originally Posted by natedawg View Post
My problem is great I just put 8k in my car its faster... I just went up 2-3 classes. If you do TT or want to be the fastest kid on the block great but the car doesn't fit in anything but tt classes anymore And I'll just spend more money in brakes and tires. Honestly $8k will buy me another project car. not sure if/ when i'll go the Honda route. I love everything Honda I'm sure it will happen eventually but I'm in no hurry. I'd rather spend money on track time.
If I had your engine it would be harder to justify. I have time to send text messages on the straights with my 1.6
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Old 12-17-2014, 10:42 PM   #748
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here i am selling 400whp bp **** so i can stuff a 200whp honda in my car. sheesh
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Old 12-17-2014, 11:11 PM   #749
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^X2. Doesn't make any sense.
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Old 12-18-2014, 12:44 AM   #750
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Chilicharger665 View Post
I think you are taking my tone incorrectly. I REALLY, REALLY want to do this, but I am trying to see if I can budget this all together and realistically do it. I believe you that it will be the best track Miata set-up out there. I believe you that your parts are quality. I believe you when you say your Medusa header is a value, I really do. My problem is that I need to budget it. I am researching more and more each day, but perhaps I should clarify my constraints and ideas on the car.

-I cannot afford to rebuild an engine and all I can get is 91 octane anyways, so I will attempt to find a K24A2 ready to go and swap in the 50 degree VTC gear and some drop-in cams suggested by Andy.

-This car will be a full-interior car, but with a rollbar, door bars, and seats mounted to the floor. I will still have a stereo.

-I plan on XIDA's and I already have some 15x9's ready to go.

-Where are you guys finding $1200 K24A2's? I live in the middle of nowhere, so junkyards around here don't have anything but rusted out domestics and my ebay searches have only turned up $1500+

So considering my power goals involve a bolt-on K24A2, to get the engine in my car and running, what do you estimate the cost to be?

I appreciate everyone's responses to my previous posts, they helped me determine that I cannot afford to rebuild an engine and that I need to find a K24A2 from 06-08 ready to go.

What gearing is everyone planning on using? I currently have a 6 speed and a 3.9 rear. I have a 3.6 sitting on the shelf and there is a 4.3 for sale on the forum. What direction should I be going for that? I will be running either 205/50 or 225/45s.
No harm no foul, I don't think your tone is out of line at all. I think you have legit questions that we hear all the time. Glad to hear you like the concept.

Your ideal build sounds exactly like ours. Stockish k24a2 in a street car that runs really quick lap times, complete with xidas, that is OEM reliable and has an overall low cost of ownership and consumables.

I've bought engines from car-part.com, and from fellow Honda guys in my area. I've purchased 3 k24a2 engines, and have paid between $900 and $1200 for them. Current one in the Miata was $1000.

I like the 6 speed and 4.10 combo in my car. Its perfect for a k24a2 with an 8000rpm redline.

A little off topic, but to answer your question, 225 tires are the obvious choice for a K powered car, if not the new 245 RC1s

Total cost is hard to nail down. On our website, the FAQs say that you can expect to spend $8000-9000 on a total conversion. Maybe some customers (Nick, Josh, Andy) can chime in on that, but we feel its a safe bet. Last thing I want to do is get customers 75% through a build and then they run out of cash.
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Old 12-18-2014, 01:43 AM   #751
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What's this about a cheaperish header? Or is the $1200 unit the only choice?

Sounds like I'll be building one of these in the next few months, are there still kits available?
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Old 12-18-2014, 02:36 AM   #752
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Here is another random question: is it possible to maintain cruise control? If you haven't had a Miata with it, it acts directly on the throttle pedal through a mechanical linkage.
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Old 12-18-2014, 11:13 AM   #753
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Originally Posted by K Miata View Post

I like the 6 speed and 4.10 combo in my car. Its perfect for a k24a2 with an 8000rpm redline.
After doing the numbers, I like the 3.9 with the 6-spd. It matches up perfectly with the gears I run in the CRX. For sure, the 3.6 will make 1st and 2nd more usuable, but for track use, I want the more frequent shifts (3-4) to be the two in the middle. Up/down, up/down...with no diagonal action to encourage a miss-shift. And 6th is still tall enough to be a good highway cruise gear, yet close enough for big tracks like VIR, COTA and Daytona. As a side-benefit...you can simply find an entire package from a wrecked 2000 SE...diff and trans.

Quote:

Total cost is hard to nail down. On our website, the FAQs say that you can expect to spend $8000-9000 on a total conversion. Maybe some customers (Nick, Josh, Andy) can chime in on that, but we feel its a safe bet. Last thing I want to do is get customers 75% through a build and then they run out of cash.
Be prepared to be nickel-and-dimed to death depending on what comes with the engine you get. Alternator, starter, wiring harnesses (charge and engine), are typically extra. And if you want the RSX-S factory oil cooler setup, you need those parts, plus the right water pump housing/thermostat.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Chilicharger665 View Post
Here is another random question: is it possible to maintain cruise control? If you haven't had a Miata with it, it acts directly on the throttle pedal through a mechanical linkage.
Good question.

My car has factory cruise, so I am headed down that road. I can't do One Lap w/o cruise. The nice thing about the Miata is that the cruise actuates the pedal, not the throttle body. And there is nothing in the KMiata kit that physically interferes with it's postion in the bay. I just need to look into the electronics a bit.

Last edited by AndyHollis; 12-18-2014 at 11:24 AM.
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Old 12-18-2014, 01:27 PM   #754
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There was just 2 k24a2's for sale by a friend of mine in my area. One with about 70k on it asking $1300 and one with 100k on it asking $1000. I was too tempted to ****** one up.

But proves the point you can find these motors easily enough. If your in the middle of nowhere, expect to be traveling to a more populated area for a "deal".
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Old 12-18-2014, 03:47 PM   #755
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One in chicagoland for sale right on on one of the local facebook groups:

"K24A2 longblock from a 2005 TSX with 96k miles 1,200.00 FIRM. Comes with accessories and XTD flywheel for free."
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Old 12-18-2014, 04:02 PM   #756
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I'd rather buy a $1200 XTD flywheel and get a free k24A2 longblock with accessories for free.
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Old 12-18-2014, 10:37 PM   #757
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Good question.

My car has factory cruise, so I am headed down that road. I can't do One Lap w/o cruise. The nice thing about the Miata is that the cruise actuates the pedal, not the throttle body. And there is nothing in the KMiata kit that physically interferes with it's postion in the bay. I just need to look into the electronics a bit.
I went through the wiring diagrams this evening regarding cruise control. Looks like it should work just fine with zero effort so long as the vehicle speed sensor is plugged in. The instrument cluster processes that input, displays it, and has a separate output that goes to both the cruise control computer and the PCM. The cruise computer has no other connections to the PCM, so its removal should have zero effect.

And since the controls are on the stalk, not the steering wheel, installation of a race steering wheel won't be an issue either.

Win.
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Old 12-18-2014, 10:50 PM   #758
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I went through the wiring diagrams this evening regarding cruise control. Looks like it should work just fine with zero effort so long as the vehicle speed sensor is plugged in. The instrument cluster processes that input, displays it, and has a separate output that goes to both the cruise control computer and the PCM. The cruise computer has no other connections to the PCM, so its removal should have zero effect.

And since the controls are on the stalk, not the steering wheel, installation of a race steering wheel won't be an issue either.

Win.
That's awesome Andy. Keep me posted on how it works out. I love this idea.
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Old 12-18-2014, 11:48 PM   #759
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seems like a lot of people doing k swap are here.
I'm another one working on the swap.
This swap is not cheap though, I'm over $10k but haven't even started on the actual swap nor ordered the k miata header yet.
To make it fair, I'm also rebuilding my engine, so good amount went in there as well.
I'm guessing I still need about $3k more to finish my car.
I do have excel sheet that I kept log with about 98% of stuff I bought for this swap, but I don't think this file really goes along with this thread.

engine build thread here
Another K24/K20 Frank Project, Shooting for 260whp - K20A.org .:. The K Series Source . Honda / Acura K20a k24a Engine Forum

Last edited by kmvguy; 12-19-2014 at 12:02 AM.
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Old 12-19-2014, 06:58 AM   #760
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Originally Posted by kmvguy View Post
seems like a lot of people doing k swap are here.
I'm another one working on the swap.
This swap is not cheap though, I'm over $10k but haven't even started on the actual swap nor ordered the k miata header yet.
To make it fair, I'm also rebuilding my engine, so good amount went in there as well.
I'm guessing I still need about $3k more to finish my car.
I do have excel sheet that I kept log with about 98% of stuff I bought for this swap, but I don't think this file really goes along with this thread.

engine build thread here
Another K24/K20 Frank Project, Shooting for 260whp - K20A.org .:. The K Series Source . Honda / Acura K20a k24a Engine Forum

What year car are you doing the swap in?
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