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Old 08-22-2013, 11:20 AM   #821
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First couple M/Ys almost always have some issues, especially on a brand new chassis, engine, car, etc. etc.

3rd or 4th model year is usually best...unless they do a big MMC and then there are all new issues the 1st year of the MMC...
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Old 08-22-2013, 11:59 AM   #822
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If this is true I am going to laugh at all of the early adopters who just got shafted. I would be even more tempted to pick one of these up though and boost it.

Scion FR-S to Get More Power From Larger Engine | AutoGuide.com News
I simplistically thought that this was going to happen at some time anyway. 2.5L boxers have been around the block and it will only need a little more cooling.

Why not a 4.0L boxer six instead? (a little more exotic than a LSx)
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Old 08-22-2013, 12:06 PM   #823
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Originally Posted by NiklasFalk View Post
I simplistically thought that this was going to happen at some time anyway. 2.5L boxers have been around the block and it will only need a little more cooling.

Why not a 4.0L boxer six instead? (a little more exotic than a LSx)
I don't think it will be the EJ255 or 257 though.
I think it will be a punched out version of the current 2.0 with maybe some more fancy gizmos, JUST like they did from 05 to 06.
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Old 08-22-2013, 12:06 PM   #824
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Originally Posted by NiklasFalk View Post
I simplistically thought that this was going to happen at some time anyway. 2.5L boxers have been around the block and it will only need a little more cooling.

Why not a 4.0L boxer six instead? (a little more exotic than a LSx)
You can supposedly cram one of them into the impreza engine bay, but I doubt you could fit one in the toyobaru.
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Old 08-22-2013, 12:40 PM   #825
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All early adopters get shafted in some way. It's the trade off for the year+ of utility they've enjoyed vs the sideline sitters. While a boost would be nice, many are probably perfectly content with the existing power.

That said, if it got a 2.5L making ~250 BHP with a curve that didn't suck, that would be a lot more attractive to me and I would almost definitely end up buying one.
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Old 08-22-2013, 12:48 PM   #826
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I understand that there are always problems with early models and certain improvements are made but 25% more displacement and horsepower for a mid-cycle refresh is a drastic improvement that would leave me pretty sour if I had a 2.0 liter.

I imagine that they will fix most of these reliability problems too. This will be one hell of a car if this all plays out correctly. It will definitely be moved up a base class by the racing bodies though.
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Old 11-19-2013, 08:15 PM   #827
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The low center of gravity thing is in the press release from Toyota. And they are the same chassis so I'd assume it's the same in the BRZ. My mistake on the motor compression. Sounds like it's a good candidate for a low boost Rotrex set up. Oscar should get on board with Cobb and build a bolt on kit with a Cobb acessport map. That would be the ****. And design it in a way that it can be removed without too much hassle for warranty and maintenance related work. I'd say 250whp and 200wtq would make a pretty damn fun daily driver :P...
And now you can. C30-94 kit ships tomorrow, with a CARB EO no less FR-S/BRZ Supercharger System | Jackson Racing

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Old 11-19-2013, 08:36 PM   #828
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Wow, that looks pretty sick. Having driven a BRZ, that would probably make it about perfect.

Interesting....
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Old 11-19-2013, 08:53 PM   #829
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I really think Kraftwerks was the worst thing to happen to Jackson Racing. Jackson has 3 Rotrex products on the market with CARB EO#s while Skunk2/KW is playing grabass in the shower with "Project G" on CR.net

/rant

There is a reason I haven't driven a BRZ/FRS. I'm happy not knowing what I'm missing
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Old 11-19-2013, 09:45 PM   #830
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Originally Posted by EO2K View Post
I really think Kraftwerks was the worst thing to happen to Jackson Racing. Jackson has 3 Rotrex products on the market with CARB EO#s while Skunk2/KW is playing grabass in the shower with "Project G" on CR.net

/rant
Pretty much covers it.
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Old 11-19-2013, 09:48 PM   #831
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I don't get it.
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Old 11-19-2013, 10:13 PM   #832
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I don't get it.
You don't get why EO2K doesn't want to drive a FR-S, or you don't get why KraftWerks was the worst thing to happen to Jackson Racing?
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Old 11-20-2013, 12:26 AM   #833
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I don't get why Kraftwerks was the worst thing to happen to Jackson Racing. Seems to me like CARB EO#s are a good thing, are they not?
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Old 11-20-2013, 02:31 AM   #834
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Kraftwerks != Jackson Racing. They are NOW 2 completely separate entities.

CARB EO is not a blanket item, it covers specific components in specific configurations on specific cars of specific years. Example: an Executive Order Number for a BRZ don't mean dick for a Miata.

The Jacksons were working with KW to bring rotrex kits to market for the Miata and S2k. They did so and promised a lot, (including a CARB EO# and this is literally why I own a rotrex) but due to some internal uproar I'm not privy to, the Jacksons split from KW. In doing so JR left the Miata and S2k rotrex market for KW to figure out and have moved on to bigger and better things. KW shuffled their feet for well over a year and left a lot of people out in the cold, me included. All my dealings with Oscar Sr & Jr were always positive, if not productive. I've literally spent hours on hold waiting for Kraftwerks to pick up the phone or return my calls. GroupA/Skunk2/Kraftwerks has also made no effort to "make it right" with any of their previous customers. Go see my buildfail thread for an example of how they "fixed" my rotrex mounting plate. Dropping support on a product and screwing your existing customers is not how you build positive relationships in the market.

Jackson Racing has 3 fully developed rotrex products on the market right now with CARB EO# (R18 Civic, CR-Z, FR-S/BRZ) and from what I understand, more to come. CARB means nothing unless you live in CA and I understand that, but it means everything to those of us who choose to live on the left coast. Go read up on what happens to people who get busted for CARB violations. I'll give you a hit: its not just failing a smog check.

Kraftwerks is... not really developing anything as far as I can tell. "Project G" seems to be a "partnered" with them selling kits, but the G boys seem to be a bunch of 20 something stancebro CR.net toolbags from SoCal or the Bay Area. I've not been impressed with anything they have posted anywhere. I've mentally put them in the same category as the bros from Tuning Done Rong, if that makes any sense.

So yeah, sorry if I'm a little touchy about this.

Back on topic... thread needs more pr0n










I'd rock it in green
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Old 11-20-2013, 09:56 AM   #835
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I have not followed the KraftWerks issues with Project-G, but in their [edit: Project-G's] defense, they've always seemed pretty professional and their products have always seemed of high quality. Granted, they are high quality aesthetic-oriented products and are definitely a better fit for CR.net than Trubo.net, but I am not sure it's fair to lump them in with the TDW(rong) guy.

If nothing else, Project-G's reps post legibly.


On-topic: What's the advantage of the JR/Rotrex kit vs the Innovate/Sprintex kit?

Last edited by Scrappy Jack; 11-20-2013 at 04:44 PM.
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Old 11-20-2013, 10:39 AM   #836
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I have not followed the KraftWerks ... they've always seemed pretty professional and their products have always seemed of high quality.

really?
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Old 11-20-2013, 10:41 AM   #837
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Kraftwerks = junk (now that Jackson Racing has removed themselves from the situation)

Jackson Racing = super nice, high quality stuff with excellent company support, etc. etc.

My understanding is the Jackson's had to deal with a whole bunch of BS trying to get themselves out of a bad situation (Kraftwerks/Skunk2 disaster fest) and unfortunately they had to give up the rights to the Miata and S2000 kits.

Which means there will never be a decent Rotrex supercharger kit for the miata or s2000 from Jackson Racing. KW/Skunk2 might get there act together and make the kits decent, but I highly doubt it.

That, and the Jackson's basically wasted years of their lives and who knows how much money in R&D, etc., because of the Skunk2 arsehats.
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Old 11-20-2013, 10:47 AM   #838
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Efini~FC3S View Post
Kraftwerks = junk (now that Jackson Racing has removed themselves from the situation)

Jackson Racing = super nice, high quality stuff with excellent company support, etc. etc.

My understanding is the Jackson's had to deal with a whole bunch of BS trying to get themselves out of a bad situation (Kraftwerks/Skunk2 disaster fest) and unfortunately they had to give up the rights to the Miata and S2000 kits.

Which means there will never be a decent Rotrex supercharger kit for the miata or s2000 from Jackson Racing. KW/Skunk2 might get there act together and make the kits decent, but I highly doubt it.

That, and the Jackson's basically wasted years of their lives and who knows how much money in R&D, etc., because of the Skunk2 arsehats.
I'm sure junk2 will come out with the kit at some point, and I'm sure that it'll be 95% perfect with just a tiny bunch of annoying problems, like bolts that are a tad too short, or packaging the NA kit of parts in an NB box.
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Old 11-20-2013, 01:13 PM   #839
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Ah. Now I understand. Thanks for the explanation I had never followed it at all, because stupidcharger.

I get the CARB thing though, and the appeal that a CARB legal kit has. I remember reading some stuff in your thread EO2K, I'll have to review it because it seems like it was a LONG time ago. Didn't that happen like... 2 years ago?
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Old 11-20-2013, 01:35 PM   #840
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